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[Eterna]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

What xsdob said. It isn't so much that that destroyers or refusers headcanon their endings to be the best, it is that they headcanon the other endings to be war crimes to justify their course of action as the only correct one.

That's not headcanon...
They are ****ing war crimes...

Refuse is the only one that isn't...


That shouldn't be up for debate...

But Refuse is willfully picking Galatic wide extinction....

Better to watch the world burn than stain one's hands to avert it?

I'm sure the soldier whose spouse was turned into a husk and whose infant daughter was rendered into grey paste will be glad to know that Shepard's conscience is clear while they watch Sword Fleet burn in the sky over Earth.

But you were given the ability to stop it and chose not too, you may as well be the one who killed them.

[DeinonSlayer]

Eterna5 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

What xsdob said. It isn't so much that that destroyers or refusers headcanon their endings to be the best, it is that they headcanon the other endings to be war crimes to justify their course of action as the only correct one.

That's not headcanon...
They are ****ing war crimes...

Refuse is the only one that isn't...


That shouldn't be up for debate...

But Refuse is willfully picking Galatic wide extinction....

Better to watch the world burn than stain one's hands to avert it?

I'm sure the soldier whose spouse was turned into a husk and whose infant daughter was rendered into grey paste will be glad to know that Shepard's conscience is clear while they watch Sword Fleet burn in the sky over Earth.

But you were given the ability to stop it and chose not too, you may as well be the one who killed them.

I agree completely. Previous post was thick with sarcasm.

[Bill Casey]

That's quite frankly laughable...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 08 novembre 2012 - 05:10 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Bill Casey wrote...

That's quite frankly laughable...

That's what happens if you refuse. If all Shepard cares about is having a clear conscience at the day's end, the entire galaxy will pay so (s)he can do so.

[Bill Casey]

Everyone dies if you do the right thing...
I know...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 08 novembre 2012 - 05:12 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Bill Casey wrote...

Everyone dies if you do the right thing...
I know...

So... everyone dies is the preferred outcome, why?

[Bill Casey]

It's not my preferred outcome...
I commit a war crime...

I'm a monster...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 08 novembre 2012 - 05:15 .

[Ticonderoga117]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Everyone dies if you do the right thing...
I know...

So... everyone dies is the preferred outcome, why?

Because they're all morons?

[plfranke]

It's not just Shepard's conscience. It's humanity's, it's every species who has ever existed. Some day, maybe the next cycle, maybe not for 1000 more cycles, someone is going to defeat the Reapers. When they do, they'll do it with the soul of organics in tact. If you pick a solution to a problem developed by the ideals of the Reapers, then the Reapers will live on forever. If you don't, there's a chance that one day they'll be gone for good. That's bigger than any soldier or his wife or his daughter, it's about things much bigger than all of us.

[DeinonSlayer]

plfranke wrote...

It's not just Shepard's conscience. It's humanity's, it's every species who has ever existed. Some day, maybe the next cycle, maybe not for 1000 more cycles, someone is going to defeat the Reapers. When they do, they'll do it with the soul of organics in tact. If you pick a solution to a problem developed by the ideals of the Reapers, then the Reapers will live on forever. If you don't, there's a chance that one day they'll be gone for good. That's bigger than any soldier or his wife or his daughter, it's about things much bigger than all of us.

Try telling yourself that as you're herded into a pod and the nanites start eating into you.

EDI is the only casualty in my playthrough, and she declared she was willing to die to see the Reapers destroyed. As much as I hate what I'm forced to do to her, I'm certain she would shoot the pipe herself if placed in Shepard's shoes.

[Eterna]

Bill Casey wrote...

It's not my preferred outcome...
I commit a war crime...

I'm a monster...

Being a hero is about sacrificing a part of yourself for the good of the many.

You may scar your soul, you may become a monster, but if you saved the many then it was worth it and it was the right thing to do. 

I would gladly destroy myself and all who I am to save the people I love, I'd be willing to carry the burden of genocide on my heart if it meant saving them. 

[Ticonderoga117]

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

It's not my preferred outcome...
I commit a war crime...

I'm a monster...

Being a hero is about sacrificing a part of yourself for the good of the many.

You may scar your soul, you may become a monster, but if you saved the many then it was worth it and it was the right thing to do. 

I would gladly destroy myself and all who I am to save the people I love, I'd be willing to carry the burden of genocide on my heart if it meant saving them. 

Except when there are other possibilites to try first.

[CosmicGnosis]

plfranke wrote...

It's not just Shepard's conscience. It's humanity's, it's every species who has ever existed. Some day, maybe the next cycle, maybe not for 1000 more cycles, someone is going to defeat the Reapers. When they do, they'll do it with the soul of organics in tact. If you pick a solution to a problem developed by the ideals of the Reapers, then the Reapers will live on forever. If you don't, there's a chance that one day they'll be gone for good. That's bigger than any soldier or his wife or his daughter, it's about things much bigger than all of us.

Incredible.

[Eterna]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

It's not my preferred outcome...
I commit a war crime...

I'm a monster...

Being a hero is about sacrificing a part of yourself for the good of the many.

You may scar your soul, you may become a monster, but if you saved the many then it was worth it and it was the right thing to do. 

I would gladly destroy myself and all who I am to save the people I love, I'd be willing to carry the burden of genocide on my heart if it meant saving them. 

Except when there are other possibilites to try first.

At the end of Mass Effect 3, there is no other option, you sacrifice a part of yourself or everyone dies. 

[GreyLycanTrope]

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

It's not my preferred outcome...
I commit a war crime...

I'm a monster...

Being a hero is about sacrificing a part of yourself for the good of the many.

You may scar your soul, you may become a monster, but if you saved the many then it was worth it and it was the right thing to do. 

I would gladly destroy myself and all who I am to save the people I love, I'd be willing to carry the burden of genocide on my heart if it meant saving them. 

Except your soul isn't the only thing at stake, there are the geth, and everyone's genetic code. And let's not forget the Reaper "peacekeeping" force.

[Eterna]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

It's not my preferred outcome...
I commit a war crime...

I'm a monster...

Being a hero is about sacrificing a part of yourself for the good of the many.

You may scar your soul, you may become a monster, but if you saved the many then it was worth it and it was the right thing to do. 

I would gladly destroy myself and all who I am to save the people I love, I'd be willing to carry the burden of genocide on my heart if it meant saving them. 

Except your soul isn't the only thing at stake, there are the geth, and everyone's genetic code. And let's not forget the Reaper "peacekeeping" force.

You choose what you can live with, you choose what you think is best for the galaxy. You don't have the luxury of holding a galatic wide vote.

[thehomeworld]

And I can head cannon the truth behind synthesis and control in that control corrupts weak human shep and turns him into Harbi 2.0 because Legion and his 1000 buddies all struggled to have one thought trapped in a reaper machine do you think a human is going to do any better?

And synthesis allows the reapers to do what they planned on in the first place they huskify and enslave everyone and let shep imagine he just gave everyone glowing skin.

Destroy does what it advertises and kills the reapers no head cannons required unless you're talking about the breath scene and in that case he dies 15 minute later from shock, blood loss, and lack of air.

[Bill Casey]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

plfranke wrote...

It's not just Shepard's conscience. It's humanity's, it's every species who has ever existed. Some day, maybe the next cycle, maybe not for 1000 more cycles, someone is going to defeat the Reapers. When they do, they'll do it with the soul of organics in tact. If you pick a solution to a problem developed by the ideals of the Reapers, then the Reapers will live on forever. If you don't, there's a chance that one day they'll be gone for good. That's bigger than any soldier or his wife or his daughter, it's about things much bigger than all of us.

Incredible.

Yeah, keep in mind the epilogue suggests they will be telling stories about "The Shepard" until the end of time. It will influence people's perceptions on morality...

It can be argued Refuse leaves the galaxy in the best state, at the extremely heavy cost of everything you've ever known and loved...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 08 novembre 2012 - 05:37 .

[plfranke]

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

It's not my preferred outcome...
I commit a war crime...

I'm a monster...

Being a hero is about sacrificing a part of yourself for the good of the many.

You may scar your soul, you may become a monster, but if you saved the many then it was worth it and it was the right thing to do. 

I would gladly destroy myself and all who I am to save the people I love, I'd be willing to carry the burden of genocide on my heart if it meant saving them. 

But you're not sacrificing a part of yourself for the good of the many. You're sacrificing the many for the good of stopping the Reapers. How exactly is that different from the Reapers "sacrificing" every cycle of organics for the good of "solving a problem"?

[DeinonSlayer]

plfranke wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

It's not my preferred outcome...
I commit a war crime...

I'm a monster...

Being a hero is about sacrificing a part of yourself for the good of the many.

You may scar your soul, you may become a monster, but if you saved the many then it was worth it and it was the right thing to do. 

I would gladly destroy myself and all who I am to save the people I love, I'd be willing to carry the burden of genocide on my heart if it meant saving them. 

But you're not sacrificing a part of yourself for the good of the many. You're sacrificing the many for the good of stopping the Reapers. How exactly is that different from the Reapers "sacrificing" every cycle of organics for the good of "solving a problem"?

Control only kills Shepard. One life for the entire galaxy.

If the Geth were already dead, Destroy only kills EDI. One life for this cycle, and every cycle before it.

Synthesis... not going there.

[Ticonderoga117]

Eterna5 wrote...
At the end of Mass Effect 3, there is no other option, you sacrifice a part of yourself or everyone dies. 

All because Shepard refuses to give the Catalyst a verbal order, "Shut Down."

[MegaSovereign]

It's not really headcanon if it doesn't conflict with the established canon.

Saying "the Reapers will fly into the sun" is a bit of a stretch though. The stargazer epilogue suggests that the Reapers are gone in the long future anyway. So I guess it's possible that they left the galaxy in the Control/Synthesis endings after they helped rebuild the damage they caused.

[MegaSovereign]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
At the end of Mass Effect 3, there is no other option, you sacrifice a part of yourself or everyone dies. 

All because Shepard refuses to give the Catalyst a verbal order, "Shut Down."

What's the point? The Catalyst wasn't going to stop the cycles without detonating the cycles.

[plfranke]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

It's not my preferred outcome...
I commit a war crime...

I'm a monster...

Being a hero is about sacrificing a part of yourself for the good of the many.

You may scar your soul, you may become a monster, but if you saved the many then it was worth it and it was the right thing to do. 

I would gladly destroy myself and all who I am to save the people I love, I'd be willing to carry the burden of genocide on my heart if it meant saving them. 

But you're not sacrificing a part of yourself for the good of the many. You're sacrificing the many for the good of stopping the Reapers. How exactly is that different from the Reapers "sacrificing" every cycle of organics for the good of "solving a problem"?

Control only kills Shepard. One life for the entire galaxy.

If the Geth were already dead, Destroy only kills EDI. One life for this cycle, and every cycle before it.

Synthesis... not going there.

Understanding that control is a trap is not headcanon, it's basic understanding of writing elements. Think of it this way. Control is available to a player with the lowest possible ems. You could literally go out of your way to play poorly. Yet, if would seemingly have no down sides. If you read between the lines, however, you can clearly see that Shepard is no more than a puppet to the Reaper's ideals. Just as Shepard would be selecting anything other than Refuse and possibly... possibly destroy.

[HellbirdIV]

Y'know, instead of trying to repair the broken endings I prefer to headcanon relevant things.

Like the fact Shepard totally boned Shiala, Samara and Councilor Tevos before she went out.

At the same time.