639 réponses à ce sujet

[Ticonderoga117]

MegaSovereign wrote...
What's the point? The Catalyst wasn't going to stop the cycles without detonating the cycles.

I'm going to assume you mean relays at the end there. How do you know? He wanted a solution, we give him one.

[DeinonSlayer]

plfranke wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

It's not my preferred outcome...
I commit a war crime...

I'm a monster...

Being a hero is about sacrificing a part of yourself for the good of the many.

You may scar your soul, you may become a monster, but if you saved the many then it was worth it and it was the right thing to do. 

I would gladly destroy myself and all who I am to save the people I love, I'd be willing to carry the burden of genocide on my heart if it meant saving them. 

But you're not sacrificing a part of yourself for the good of the many. You're sacrificing the many for the good of stopping the Reapers. How exactly is that different from the Reapers "sacrificing" every cycle of organics for the good of "solving a problem"?

Control only kills Shepard. One life for the entire galaxy.

If the Geth were already dead, Destroy only kills EDI. One life for this cycle, and every cycle before it.

Synthesis... not going there.

Understanding that control is a trap is not headcanon, it's basic understanding of writing elements. Think of it this way. Control is available to a player with the lowest possible ems. You could literally go out of your way to play poorly. Yet, if would seemingly have no down sides. If you read between the lines, however, you can clearly see that Shepard is no more than a puppet to the Reaper's ideals. Just as Shepard would be selecting anything other than Refuse and possibly... possibly destroy.

Destroy is my canon, for the record.

[plfranke]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

plfranke wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

It's not my preferred outcome...
I commit a war crime...

I'm a monster...

Being a hero is about sacrificing a part of yourself for the good of the many.

You may scar your soul, you may become a monster, but if you saved the many then it was worth it and it was the right thing to do. 

I would gladly destroy myself and all who I am to save the people I love, I'd be willing to carry the burden of genocide on my heart if it meant saving them. 

But you're not sacrificing a part of yourself for the good of the many. You're sacrificing the many for the good of stopping the Reapers. How exactly is that different from the Reapers "sacrificing" every cycle of organics for the good of "solving a problem"?

Control only kills Shepard. One life for the entire galaxy.

If the Geth were already dead, Destroy only kills EDI. One life for this cycle, and every cycle before it.

Synthesis... not going there.

Understanding that control is a trap is not headcanon, it's basic understanding of writing elements. Think of it this way. Control is available to a player with the lowest possible ems. You could literally go out of your way to play poorly. Yet, if would seemingly have no down sides. If you read between the lines, however, you can clearly see that Shepard is no more than a puppet to the Reaper's ideals. Just as Shepard would be selecting anything other than Refuse and possibly... possibly destroy.

Destroy is my canon, for the record.

I don't know where I stand on that, but I'm damn sure never picking synthesis. If I actually thought it was possible I would be pro-control, but the game goes out of its way so many times to tell you the Reapers can't be controlled and actually show you times where a "control mindset" has gone awry, I can't bring myself to pick it.

[Xilizhra]

I don't know where I stand on that, but I'm damn sure never picking synthesis. If I actually thought it was possible I would be pro-control, but the game goes out of its way so many times to tell you the Reapers can't be controlled and actually show you times where a "control mindset" has gone awry, I can't bring myself to pick it.

The control project on Horizon was going just fine until the Reapers attacked it (because they saw it as an actual threat to them; they were content to let Cerberus do its thing until then). The Leviathans also demonstrate Reaper control to be possible.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 08 novembre 2012 - 05:58 .

[plfranke]

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't know where I stand on that, but I'm damn sure never picking synthesis. If I actually thought it was possible I would be pro-control, but the game goes out of its way so many times to tell you the Reapers can't be controlled and actually show you times where a "control mindset" has gone awry, I can't bring myself to pick it.

The control project on Horizon was going just fine until the Reapers attacked it (because they saw it as an actual threat to them; they were content to let Cerberus do its thing until then). The Leviathans also demonstrate Reaper control to be possible.

"The game goes out of its way so many times to tell you the Reapers can't be controlled and actually show you times where a "control mindset" has gone awry."
"Actually show you times where a "control mindset" has gone awry."
"A "control mindset" has gone awry."

"The control project on Horizon was going just fine until the Reapers attacked it"
"going just fine until the Reapers attacked it"

"The Leviathans also demonstrate Reaper control to be possible."
"The Leviathans"

[Xilizhra]

This isn't 4chan; greentexting doesn't work.

[TheGreatDayne]

HellbirdIV wrote...

Y'know, instead of trying to repair the broken endings I prefer to headcanon relevant things.

Like the fact Shepard totally boned Shiala, Samara and Councilor Tevos before she went out.

At the same time.

I like the way you think... My Shepard boned Falare while controlling Liara's Synthesized body... It was glorious...

[ghost9191]

didn't we have a conversation about this yesterday, pick a ending, headcanon who gives a f*ck what yours is. and leave it at that . no need to be hostile to those that pick the right ending though. not our fault

oh and if it is in the game,. it is not considered headcanon. just saying

for the crew being not being upset about the geth cost ( if they made it to the end) . name one that would care. and don't say edi because she dies so her opinion doesn't matter

Modifié par ghost9191, 08 novembre 2012 - 06:17 .

[Greed1914]

You can headcanon whatever you want. Sometimes I wish I was able to do this, but I can't. I know what I saw, and I hated it. I can't really change what happened, no matter how much I might wish it hadn't happened.

[plfranke]

Xilizhra wrote...

This isn't 4chan; greentexting doesn't work.

Anyone who is worthy of reading that post will understand the meaning behind it.

[CosmicGnosis]

Let me put it this way:

I agree with everything that Synthesis is, except for the fact that it's forced on everyone. That's it.

I agree with certain aspects of Control, but I don't like the idea of Shepard wielding so much power and actively shaping the galaxy.

I agree with certain aspects of Destroy, but I don't like the rejection of all synthetic life and the harvested civilizations.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 08 novembre 2012 - 06:23 .

[Vigilant111]

OP: If I remember correctly you intended not to make any more threads about the ending? correct me if I misunderstood

Is this thread one of those "I know you are but what am I?" thread?

I do not recall headcanoning anything positive apart from reapers are destroyed and that people are free to choose their path... Wait, that is not a headcanon is it? Man, you tricked me...

[Xilizhra]

Vigilant111 wrote...

OP: If I remember correctly you intended not to make any more threads about the ending? correct me if I misunderstood

Is this thread one of those "I know you are but what am I?" thread?

I do not recall headcanoning anything positive apart from reapers are destroyed and that people are free to choose their path... Wait, that is not a headcanon is it? Man, you tricked me...

Well, except for all the people you murdered. And the ones the Leviathans might claim.

[plfranke]

Xilizhra wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

OP: If I remember correctly you intended not to make any more threads about the ending? correct me if I misunderstood

Is this thread one of those "I know you are but what am I?" thread?

I do not recall headcanoning anything positive apart from reapers are destroyed and that people are free to choose their path... Wait, that is not a headcanon is it? Man, you tricked me...

Well, except for all the people you murdered. And the ones the Leviathans might claim.

So one moment you argue that the Leviathans prove Reaper control is possible, but the next you argue that destroy is wrong because the Leviathans are out there. By your logic every choice is bad because the Leviathans are out there.

Modifié par plfranke, 08 novembre 2012 - 06:36 .

[HellbirdIV]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

I agree with everything that Synthesis is, except for the fact that it's forced on everyone. That's it.

So the fact it's physically impossible and makes no sense doesn't bother you in the slightest?

CosmicGnosis wrote...

I agree with certain aspects of Control, but I don't like the idea of Shepard wielding so much power and actively shaping the galaxy.

Shepard does not have any power. She dies. The gestalt entity that controls the Reapers is based upon her memories and thought-patterns.

Personally I'm not cool with brainwashing the Reapers to be our slaves and, should that brainwashing ever wear off, causing a galaxy-wide version of the Geth-Quarian Morning War with trillions of casualties.

CosmicGnosis wrote...

I agree with certain aspects of Destroy, but I don't like the rejection of all synthetic life and the harvested civilizations.

Destroy does not reject synthetic life. The Starbrat is full of crap. Kill him, kill the Reapers, kill the geth, kill EDI, peace in our time. It's a heavy price to pay but it is the only way to ensure a permanent end to the Reaper cycle of mass-genocide. Synthetic life can be rebuilt, in time.

As for the harvested civilizations, do you really think that the "preserved cultural heritage" of the harvested races never opposed the Reaper cycle? Don't you think that, maybe, whatever self-identity the preserved species have would have been stamped out by Reaper brainwashing to ensure they do not rebel? Set them free. Give them peace.

Modifié par HellbirdIV, 08 novembre 2012 - 06:38 .

[Xilizhra]

plfranke wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

OP: If I remember correctly you intended not to make any more threads about the ending? correct me if I misunderstood

Is this thread one of those "I know you are but what am I?" thread?

I do not recall headcanoning anything positive apart from reapers are destroyed and that people are free to choose their path... Wait, that is not a headcanon is it? Man, you tricked me...

Well, except for all the people you murdered. And the ones the Leviathans might claim.

So one moment you argue that the Leviathans prove Reaper control is possible, but the next you argue that destroy is wrong because the Leviathans are out there. By your logic every choice is bad because the Leviathans are out there.

Synthesis would likely render them harmless. As for Control, they're not capable of controlling the Reapers on any kind of wide scale, they're just something that shows that control on some level is in fact possible.

Destroy does not reject synthetic life. The Starbrat is full of crap.
Kill him, kill the Reapers, kill the geth, kill EDI, peace in our time.
It's a heavy price to pay but it is the only way to ensure a permanent
end to the Reaper cycle of mass-genocide. Synthetic life can be rebuilt,
in time.

The geth civilization is a permanent and complete loss. Regrettably, it does reject synthetic life.

As for the harvested civilizations, do you really think that the
"preserved cultural heritage" of the harvested races never opposed the
Reaper cycle? Don't you think that, maybe,
whatever self-identity the preserved species have would have been
stamped out by Reaper brainwashing to ensure they do not rebel? Set them
free. Give them peace.

I'll make that their choice.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 08 novembre 2012 - 06:39 .

[ghost9191]

you know they honor the sacrifice the geth made .as hackett says, i doubt they would do that if they rejected synthetics. it is not the galaxy that chooses destroy,. well they do but without knowing the cost. if you choose it because you reject synthetics, then so be it . but that is not the case for everyone

ppl will remember the geth for giving their "lives" to stop the reapers , not that they were synthetics. well most

i am pretty sure that was u using the power of head canon though

and that is great., so make anti synthesis and control threads also . or just pick a f*cking ending already . fine with the edning threads. but they come off like you are trying to justify synthesis and control by making destroy worse. which is fine but they are all bad and good in their own way . drive yourself insane with that kind of thinking

[Xilizhra]

you know they honor the sacrifice the geth made .as hackett says, i doubt they would do that if they rejected synthetics. it is not the galaxy that chooses destroy,. well they do but without knowing the cost. if you choose it because you reject synthetics, then so be it . but that is not the case for everyone

Honor means nothing whatsoever to the dead.

and that is great., so make anti synthesis and control threads also . or just pick a f*cking ending already . fine with the edning threads. but they come off like you are trying to justify synthesis and control by making destroy worse. which is fine but they are all bad and good in their own way . drive yourself insane with that kind of thinking

Destroy is pretty damned bad. All CosmicGnosis tries to do is show that.

[CosmicGnosis]

Vigilant111 wrote...

OP: If I remember correctly you intended not to make any more threads about the ending? correct me if I misunderstood.

I said that I might stop. I haven't yet. I'm just intrigued by the fact that many Destroyers simply don't want to acknowledge anything good about Control and Synthesis. It's essentially IT without actually being IT.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 08 novembre 2012 - 06:42 .

[ghost9191]

Xilizhra wrote...

The geth civilization is a permanent and complete loss. Regrettably, it does reject synthetic life.

actualy the geth can be rebuilt. the ones before will have died , but the same can be said about the batarians . they died but the race can live on, so yeah

talking about rejecting. how is control not rejectin organics. give a AI control over the galaxy ., hmm that will work out well :innocent:

[Xilizhra]

ghost9191 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The geth civilization is a permanent and complete loss. Regrettably, it does reject synthetic life.

actualy the geth can be rebuilt. the ones before will have died , but the same can be said about the batarians . they died but the race can live on, so yeah

talking about rejecting. how is control not rejectin organics. give a AI control over the galaxy ., hmm that will work out well :innocent:

I'm not killing any organics in Control. And the geth are irrevocably extinct. The shells could be used to house new programs, I suppose, but they'd never be the same.

[ghost9191]

Xilizhra wrote...

you know they honor the sacrifice the geth made .as hackett says, i doubt they would do that if they rejected synthetics. it is not the galaxy that chooses destroy,. well they do but without knowing the cost. if you choose it because you reject synthetics, then so be it . but that is not the case for everyone

Honor means nothing whatsoever to the dead.

and that is great., so make anti synthesis and control threads also . or just pick a f*cking ending already . fine with the edning threads. but they come off like you are trying to justify synthesis and control by making destroy worse. which is fine but they are all bad and good in their own way . drive yourself insane with that kind of thinking

Destroy is pretty damned bad. All CosmicGnosis tries to do is show that.

means a hell of a lot more then betrayal , oh and slavery . and oh and omnipotent dictators ,

[Xilizhra]

means a hell of a lot more then betrayal , oh and slavery . and oh and omnipotent dictators ,

I may control the Reapers, but it's better for them than death. And I'm not betraying anyone, nor will I be dictatorial.

[ghost9191]

Xilizhra wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The geth civilization is a permanent and complete loss. Regrettably, it does reject synthetic life.

actualy the geth can be rebuilt. the ones before will have died , but the same can be said about the batarians . they died but the race can live on, so yeah

talking about rejecting. how is control not rejectin organics. give a AI control over the galaxy ., hmm that will work out well :innocent:

I'm not killing any organics in Control. And the geth are irrevocably extinct. The shells could be used to house new programs, I suppose, but they'd never be the same.

actually they would. the geth that came before would be dead. but again the race would go on, just like what happened to the batarians you murdered

and yes because shepard taking over the galaxy will go over well with everyone. and doesn't matter. still putting synthetics on top ,

[CosmicGnosis]

HellbirdIV wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

I agree with everything that Synthesis is, except for the fact that it's forced on everyone. That's it.

So the fact it's physically impossible and makes no sense doesn't bother you in the slightest?

CosmicGnosis wrote...

I agree with certain aspects of Control, but I don't like the idea of Shepard wielding so much power and actively shaping the galaxy.

Shepard does not have any power. She dies. The gestalt entity that controls the Reapers is based upon her memories and thought-patterns.

Personally I'm not cool with brainwashing the Reapers to be our slaves and, should that brainwashing ever wear off, causing a galaxy-wide version of the Geth-Quarian Morning War with trillions of casualties.

CosmicGnosis wrote...

I agree with certain aspects of Destroy, but I don't like the rejection of all synthetic life and the harvested civilizations.

Destroy does not reject synthetic life. The Starbrat is full of crap. Kill him, kill the Reapers, kill the geth, kill EDI, peace in our time. It's a heavy price to pay but it is the only way to ensure a permanent end to the Reaper cycle of mass-genocide. Synthetic life can be rebuilt, in time.

As for the harvested civilizations, do you really think that the "preserved cultural heritage" of the harvested races never opposed the Reaper cycle? Don't you think that, maybe, whatever self-identity the preserved species have would have been stamped out by Reaper brainwashing to ensure they do not rebel? Set them free. Give them peace.

I've gradually gotten over the space magic of Synthesis. Project Lazarus is space magic, so whatever.

I don't believe that Shepard is completely dead in Control. Some people say that the Intelligence is merely based on Shepard. I prefer to think that it really is Shepard, but a Shepard so fundamentally different that he might as well be "dead". The Catalyst explicitly states that Shepard will no longer be organic. The Intelligence in Control is an ascended synthetic Shepard.

Yes, the continued slavery of the Reapers is a concern.

Thematically, Destroy is a rejection of synthetic life. That's why Shepard survives; his organic aspect survives the destruction of his synthetic aspect. It's the opposite of Control, which results in Shepard's organic aspect being destroyed. Synthesis completely kills Shepard, however. I guess you could say that it results in the "death" of both organic and synthetic life, or you could say that life transcends the old notions of organic and synthetic.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 08 novembre 2012 - 06:51 .