639 réponses à ce sujet

[KingZayd]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Why does the Catalyst give you an option (Destroy) that wont solve his problem?

Best answer that I can come up with is: The Leviathan created him.

[clennon8]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Why does the Catalyst give you an option (Destroy) that wont solve his problem?

Short answer: He doesn't "give" that option.  It's built into the Crucible.  It's the Crucible's only function, in fact. Only Control and Synthesis are "given" to you by the Catalyst. Those functions are built into the Citadel, and only need the Crucible's energy.  The Catalyst talks about Destroy first, to get it out of the way and move onto his preferred option(s).  He knows you have him by the short hairs at this point, so his only play is to try to trick you into not destroying the Reapers.  However, he knows that if he tells you "Oops, sorry, you can't destroy us," you won't believe a damn thing he says after that.  The best cons are not total fabrications. They're built on elements of truth.

Long answer: http://social.biowar.../index/13419372

[Reorte]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Why does the Catalyst give you an option (Destroy) that wont solve his problem?

I can think of a couple of possibilities.

The main one is that by appearing to offer some choice that doesn't give it what it wants it makes it look more honest and open, and therefore Shepard is more open to being persuaded to make another choice. The best lies and propaganda have some truth in them to make them seem more convincing.

Another possibility is that it is a quite logical entity and therefore mentions all the possibilities. That doesn't stop it being misinformed and badly programmed and therefore reaching insane conclusions.

A bit of both is what I feel is true. I think that it believes what it is saying but that doesn't stop what it's saying about synthetics being nonsense. So it can therefore be trusted on what every choice does but not on the implications of every choice. Also, without any other information about them is taking which choice does what at face value any better than not picking any? You can't exactly make things worse (although Synthesis is possibly worse than Refuse if you take a long enough view).

[KingZayd]

clennon8 wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...

Why does the Catalyst give you an option (Destroy) that wont solve his problem?

Short answer: He doesn't "give" that option.  It's built into the Crucible.  It's the Crucible's only function, in fact. Only Control and Synthesis are "given" to you by the Catalyst. Those functions are built into the Citadel, and only need the Crucible's energy.  The Catalyst talks about Destroy first, to get it out of the way and move onto his preferred option(s).  He knows you have him by the short hairs at this point, so his only play is to try to trick you into not destroying the Reapers.  However, he knows that if he tells you "Oops, sorry, you can't destroy us," you won't believe a damn thing he says after that.  The best cons are not total fabrications. They're built on elements of truth.

Long answer: http://social.biowar.../index/13419372

After the EC, the Starchild tells you that the Crucible is merely a power source. This means that the choices are given by the Starchild, unless of course the Starchild is lying.

Modifié par KingZayd, 08 novembre 2012 - 08:26 .

[CosmicGnosis]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Great. Do it. But for the love of god shut up about it. You make a thread every damn day about the same damn thing.

I didn't realize that I was being so annoying. Sorry.

[clennon8]

Riiiight. The Crucible, which is stated to be "capable of unquantifiable levels of destruction" earlier in the game, is really just a giant Duracell. That's the sum collaborative effort of the designers from all those previous cycles. A big battery that doesn't actually do anything. The Starchild says so! Okeydokey then.

[KingZayd]

clennon8 wrote...

Riiiight. The Crucible, which is stated to be "capable of unquantifiable levels of destruction" earlier in the game, is really just a giant Duracell. That's the sum collaborative effort of the designers from all those previous cycles. A big battery that doesn't actually do anything. The Starchild says so! Okeydokey then.

I never said I liked it. I would prefer that indoctrination theory was true don't get me wrong. I just don't believe Bioware intended it.

Modifié par KingZayd, 08 novembre 2012 - 08:38 .

[ghost9191]

Yate wrote...

hey guys how about we accept that everyone's morality and personal idea of a utopia are different and rather than argue who's interpretation is better we just accept NOPE WE'RE JUST GOING TO YELL AT PEOPLE FOR CHOOSING BAD CHOICES IN A GAME WITH AN AMBIGUOUS ENDING WITH NOTHING BUT BOGUS SPECULATION TO SUPPORT OUR ARGUMENTS? OK.

almost seemed reasonable

[ghost9191]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Great. Do it. But for the love of god shut up about it. You make a thread every damn day about the same damn thing.

I didn't realize that I was being so annoying. Sorry.

think it is more tthat you haven't figured out your ending yet. as said pick a ending and roll with it . then bash ppl for their choices to make yours seem better:bandit:

[ghost9191]

clennon8 wrote...

Riiiight. The Crucible, which is stated to be "capable of unquantifiable levels of destruction" earlier in the game, is really just a giant Duracell. That's the sum collaborative effort of the designers from all those previous cycles. A big battery that doesn't actually do anything. The Starchild says so! Okeydokey then.

plus the crucible can be used without the catalyst. so what would it do . turn on and be a power source? nah would go all destroy . catalyst just prevents it from firing ( citadel i mean ) and uses it to power synthesis and control . which control might have been added to the cruciible but unknown.

another race could have gotten close and so the star child put in place precautions to prevent it from happening . they knew about the crucible. safe to assume they would take action just in case

[teh DRUMPf!!]

clennon8 wrote...

Whether you think IT is a crock or not, you pretty much have to be a straight-up nincompoop to trust the Catalyst.  Sorry if that statement is a little too unadulterated for some of you.

I would challenge you on this, but it'll just lead to you pulling a Kai Leng (running before you lose).

[KingZayd]

ghost9191 wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

Riiiight. The Crucible, which is stated to be "capable of unquantifiable levels of destruction" earlier in the game, is really just a giant Duracell. That's the sum collaborative effort of the designers from all those previous cycles. A big battery that doesn't actually do anything. The Starchild says so! Okeydokey then.

plus the crucible can be used without the catalyst. so what would it do . turn on and be a power source? nah would go all destroy . catalyst just prevents it from firing ( citadel i mean ) and uses it to power synthesis and control . which control might have been added to the cruciible but unknown.

This is one of the reasons I think the EC ending is worse than the original (who knew it was possible?)

[clennon8]

KingZayd wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

Riiiight. The Crucible, which is stated to be "capable of unquantifiable levels of destruction" earlier in the game, is really just a giant Duracell. That's the sum collaborative effort of the designers from all those previous cycles. A big battery that doesn't actually do anything. The Starchild says so! Okeydokey then.

plus the crucible can be used without the catalyst. so what would it do . turn on and be a power source? nah would go all destroy . catalyst just prevents it from firing ( citadel i mean ) and uses it to power synthesis and control . which control might have been added to the cruciible but unknown.

This is one of the reasons I think the EC ending is worse than the original (who knew it was possible?)

I don't know about worse, but it is pretty bad.  It amazes me that so many people gobbled up that bowl of tripe and exclaimed "Thank you Bioware for my bowl of tripe!" with such adoration.

[KingZayd]

clennon8 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

Riiiight. The Crucible, which is stated to be "capable of unquantifiable levels of destruction" earlier in the game, is really just a giant Duracell. That's the sum collaborative effort of the designers from all those previous cycles. A big battery that doesn't actually do anything. The Starchild says so! Okeydokey then.

plus the crucible can be used without the catalyst. so what would it do . turn on and be a power source? nah would go all destroy . catalyst just prevents it from firing ( citadel i mean ) and uses it to power synthesis and control . which control might have been added to the cruciible but unknown.

This is one of the reasons I think the EC ending is worse than the original (who knew it was possible?)

I don't know about worse, but it is pretty bad.  It amazes me that so many people gobbled up that bowl of tripe and exclaimed "Thank you Bioware for my bowl of tripe!" with such adoration.

With the original ending, it was far easier to headcanon around the nonsense (there was less of it. They added more to "clarify" the nonsense we already had)

Modifié par KingZayd, 08 novembre 2012 - 09:10 .

[Nerevar-as]

clennon8 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

Riiiight. The Crucible, which is stated to be "capable of unquantifiable levels of destruction" earlier in the game, is really just a giant Duracell. That's the sum collaborative effort of the designers from all those previous cycles. A big battery that doesn't actually do anything. The Starchild says so! Okeydokey then.

plus the crucible can be used without the catalyst. so what would it do . turn on and be a power source? nah would go all destroy . catalyst just prevents it from firing ( citadel i mean ) and uses it to power synthesis and control . which control might have been added to the cruciible but unknown.

This is one of the reasons I think the EC ending is worse than the original (who knew it was possible?)

I don't know about worse, but it is pretty bad.  It amazes me that so many people gobbled up that bowl of tripe and exclaimed "Thank you Bioware for my bowl of tripe!" with such adoration.

Probably because it removed the new galactic Dark Age (really, it was even worse than Refuse, where at least Shepard chews on Starbrat and got the same result), and Tali & Garrus no longer died of malnutrition.

[General User]

Anyone can "headcanon" anything they please about anything they please, but plastering over (or simply ignoring) negative implications or outright nonsense of any particualr ending simply because one found something that happened to tickle their philosophical funny bone is intellectually dishonest.

Modifié par General User, 08 novembre 2012 - 09:59 .

[Risselda]

Maybe a synthesis supporter can answer this. I flipped through a couple of the threads, so it may be a repeat...if so if someone could link me to the right discussion, i'd greatly appreciate it.

The starchild states "Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology...We have tried…a similar solution in the past. But it has always failed."

Correct me if I am wrong...but 'reaper forces' such as ravagers, banshees, marauders, husks...are organics combined with reaper tech. This was obviously tried this cycle and quite obviously failed. In fact, this was rather insidious. What is it about jumping into the synthesis beam that changes this? You could go with Sheps DNA...but I can not believe that over the hundreds of thousands of years no one has tried this...just in this cycle we have had several willing volunteers...Saren and his 'upgrades,' TIM looked like he had some reaper-organo stuff going on...does bioware mean to tell us Shep had super DNA?

And if it is DNA that the starchild needs to do this...what happens to the dextros?

[clennon8]

Risselda wrote...

Maybe a synthesis supporter can answer this. I flipped through a couple of the threads, so it may be a repeat...if so if someone could link me to the right discussion, i'd greatly appreciate it.

The starchild states "Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology...We have tried…a similar solution in the past. But it has always failed."

Correct me if I am wrong...but 'reaper forces' such as ravagers, banshees, marauders, husks...are organics combined with reaper tech. This was obviously tried this cycle and quite obviously failed. In fact, this was rather insidious. What is it about jumping into the synthesis beam that changes this? You could go with Sheps DNA...but I can not believe that over the hundreds of thousands of years no one has tried this...just in this cycle we have had several willing volunteers...Saren and his 'upgrades,' TIM looked like he had some reaper-organo stuff going on...does bioware mean to tell us Shep had super DNA?

And if it is DNA that the starchild needs to do this...what happens to the dextros?

You're not really going to get a satisfactory answer to this question.  Any responses you get will be along the lines of "Why would the Catalyst lie?" and "Everyone looks happy in the epilog slides, so it must be okay."

Modifié par clennon8, 08 novembre 2012 - 11:05 .

[HellbirdIV]

Risselda wrote...

Correct me if I am wrong...but 'reaper forces' such as ravagers, banshees, marauders, husks...are organics combined with reaper tech. This was obviously tried this cycle and quite obviously failed. In fact, this was rather insidious. What is it about jumping into the synthesis beam that changes this?

Well obviously it's because Reapers are imperfect, clumsy Gentle Giants who accidentally turn people into horrific murderous abominations because they don't know any better. THEY'RE JUST SO MISUNDERSTOOOOOOD!!!!

Whereas the Mint Ray the Catalyst creates is made of HAPPINESS and RAINBOWS and other magical good things that make everything work out perfectly. It has nothing to do with Shepard's DNA, it's all about BELIEVING IN YOURSELF and you'll make the universe a better place by forcibly altering every living organism at the cellular level against their will. CLAP YOUR HANDS IF YOU BELIEVE IN THE CATALYST'S MINT RAY OF HAPPINESS!

[teh DRUMPf!!]

clennon8 wrote...

You're not really going to get a satisfactory answer to this question.

That's a given since KaiLengnon8 here is the only one responding to your post.

You might want to take a screenshot of this, though, since it is a rarity for him to respond to anything at all. Oh no, wait, that's just arguments because he never has any substance to his own. Nevermind!

Any responses you get will be along the lines of "Why would the Catalyst lie?" and "Everyone looks happy in the epilog slides, so it must be okay."

Actually, no. On the topic of Synthesis supporters, they'll give thoughtful responsese, don't worry about that.

We're not this guy, who likes to project all of his negative attributes (everything about him) onto others. 

[darthoptimus003]

well then untill the ending is fixed bioware can imagine my money
so if u really want to pay money to imagine an ending for ur shep go right ahead me i didnt pay them for that
i payed them to give me an ending to a story that i start with me1
what we got instead was pick a color and have genocide, dna rape or become the baddy ur self and use ur imagination to finish the story and art
i dont f***** think so

[ghost9191]

HYR 2.0 wrote...


That's a given since KaiLengnon8 here is the only one responding to your post.

You might want to take a screenshot of this, though, since it is a rarity for him to respond to anything at all. Oh no, wait, that's just arguments because he never has any substance to his own. Nevermind!

Any responses you get will be along the lines of "Why would the Catalyst lie?" and "Everyone looks happy in the epilog slides, so it must be okay."

Actually, no. On the topic of Synthesis supporters, they'll give thoughtful responsese, don't worry about that.

We're not this guy, who likes to project all of his negative attributes (everything about him) onto others. 

yeah the synthesis supporters will just simply ignore any counter arguments to their posts and then bash others for their interpretations of the ending . sorry i would type more but my side hurts from HYR hyypocritical response

Modifié par ghost9191, 09 novembre 2012 - 01:41 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

^ Was that English?? =\\

[clennon8]

I hear buzzing. I'm not sure if it's indoctrination, or just... Oh, yep, it's just a fly.