827 réponses à ce sujet

[duffpastorius]

I enjoy reading these threads. Keep it alive pl0x

[X M3TH0D1C4L X]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

So you enjoy a faction that has a mechanic that totally removes player skill from the equation?

It only removes player skill as much as sync-killing does, imo. It takes player skill to not be caught by stun-locks. I admit, I've wandered around corners straight into a prime and his drone and been taken down and so forth. But in a regular gold game, I don't reckon I'm stunlocked more than 2-3 times. And not every stagger/stunlock results in death.

So I guess I think avoiding stunlock is part of the skill involved in playing against the geth.

There are only a few units in any enemy faction that can sync kill you even then there are easy ways to avoid sync kills. Every enemy unit in the Geth faction (exception is troopers) can stun lock you and your teammates.

Not to mention, they can stunlock you across the map. You have to be in the enemy's face to get synckilled.

[NuclearTech76]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Well the problem is that these sorts of threads generally get very 'us and them' very quickly. And some innocent bystanders get caught in the crossfire.

There are no innocents on BSN.

[rgeshevv]

IndigoVitare wrote...

Geth Rocket Trooper; The problem with this is less the stagger and more the instant firing, double shots and powerful melee. My suggestion is to give it a charge, or aim, time. Like the nemesis, rather than just popping out of cover and firing a rocket at you it has to lock on first. This woud weaken it at close range; currently it combines heavy melee with a point-blank rocket to instant health-gate the majority of classes. It's a long range unit, CQC should be where it's weakest. I suspect this would also fix the rapid-fire rockets.

I remember reading somewhere a devs post about Rocket Trooper. He said that the problem with double/tripple tapping rockets comes from brocken fire/re-fire while in cover. So, when they are in cover, I assume, they "gather" all the rockets that they had to fire and when leave cover... rocket gallore...

Also, locking on to you is already there, sort of. Their rocket launchers fire self-guided rockets, which will track you no matter what. And adding "lock on" time nullifies the idea of having a guided rocket launcher. The problem comes from the re-fire time while in cover. And as much as I want that fixed quickly, I think we will have to wait till the next patch.

[HolyAvenger]

NuclearTech76 wrote...
There are only a few units in any enemy faction that can sync kill you even then there are easy ways to avoid sync kills. Every enemy unit in the Geth faction (exception is troopers) can stun lock you and your teammates.

Stunlocking is much less threating than sync-killing, so more units that do it doesn't bother me that much. Stunlocking can also be avoided. If you're getting stunlocked all the time, I have no idea how you're playing against the geth because that is not something that happens to me. Maybe its only something that happens to players with a super-aggressive playstyle...which is again, fine by me, because different factions SHOULD require different tactics.

[TattyUD]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Well the problem is that these sorts of threads generally get very 'us and them' very quickly. And some innocent bystanders get caught in the crossfire.

Unfortunately so, but I'm glad you started the discussion and happy that its still generated thoughtful arguement even after some conflict.  I find myself very much in agreement with you throughout the thread, although I am far too polite to be as bold and direct as you.

[sareth_65536]

IndigoVitare wrote...
Primes spawn on Wave 6

that's because of the kill objective. You will get an easymode pyro if there won't be a prime

[TrveOmegaSlayer]

I prefer Geth to Collectors any time of the day!

[Crimson Vanguard]

Feneckus, RedJohn, me and another random guy (which I considered him good because of his UR X) we all made Collector bite dust in London but then in Ghost against Geth we bit dust. Feneckus's quote: "I would like to see the guy who designed Geth"

[NuclearTech76]

HolyAvenger wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...
There are only a few units in any enemy faction that can sync kill you even then there are easy ways to avoid sync kills. Every enemy unit in the Geth faction (exception is troopers) can stun lock you and your teammates.

Stunlocking is much less threating than sync-killing, so more units that do it doesn't bother me that much. Stunlocking can also be avoided. If you're getting stunlocked all the time, I have no idea how you're playing against the geth because that is not something that happens to me. Maybe its only something that happens to players with a super-aggressive playstyle...which is again, fine by me, because different factions SHOULD require different tactics.

The geth are not the much a problem if you stay in a defendable location and have a competent team. The problem is you are forced to play that way or use consumables like hell. And if you're in a PUG match with a bunch of idiots, you're screwed.

[JC_aka_fps_john]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Decrease Prime RoF/Accuracy and lower chance to stun from 100%
Remove stagger from combat drone attack
Remove Geth Rocket Trooper Stagger
Fix double/triple/quadruple rocket scumbag missile glitching rocket troopers
Fix hunters shooting you while staggered/stasised/frozen/on the floor etc.

- Welcomed.
- Does it even do damage? I thought it only staggered. Might as well just remove the drone entirely
- Atlas rockets stagger too, I can live with this
- Welcomed. Something should be done about their melee-happiness to, for a unit that ought to be only effective at range they're devastating up close. Rocket -> melee -> rocket while stunned -> dead
- Devs have spoken about this before, it happens because their GPS is a charge weapon. If a player is stunned while charging the same thing happens

Modifié par JC_aka_fps_john, 08 novembre 2012 - 03:19 .

[HolyAvenger]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...
There are only a few units in any enemy faction that can sync kill you even then there are easy ways to avoid sync kills. Every enemy unit in the Geth faction (exception is troopers) can stun lock you and your teammates.

Stunlocking is much less threating than sync-killing, so more units that do it doesn't bother me that much. Stunlocking can also be avoided. If you're getting stunlocked all the time, I have no idea how you're playing against the geth because that is not something that happens to me. Maybe its only something that happens to players with a super-aggressive playstyle...which is again, fine by me, because different factions SHOULD require different tactics.

The geth are not the much a problem if you stay in a defendable location and have a competent team. The problem is you are forced to play that way or use consumables like hell. And if you're in a PUG match with a bunch of idiots, you're screwed.

So, basically, we're agreed then? The geth are fine if you adapt your tactics while facing them with a competent group. What you call being forced to play a certain way, I call a variation in the challenge an enemy faction offers. If all tactics were equally well against all factions, I would find that very boring.

I play UUG, and I extract just as often against geth as any other faction. And if you're in a PUG match with a bunch of idiots against any faction, you're screwed.

[greghorvath]

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

Feneckus, RedJohn, me and another random guy (which I considered him good because of his UR X) we all made Collector bite dust in London but then in Ghost against Geth we bit dust.

You can't possibly be serious. What setups were you guys playing?

[rgeshevv]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

The cover/not cover thing isn't the only cause of cheating missile glitching rocket trooper scumbags. I've had them spawn in front of me and immediately shoot me with 2 or 3 rockets without going within 5 metres of cover.

Yeah, there is that... I forgot about it.

Remember one game recently on Reactor with friends. We were infront of the reactor, just by the LZ. Wave starts and I see bunch of enemies spawning in the right room from the LZ. The moment I saw those 3 Rocket Troopers and said "Watch out, rockets" 6 of them were already hitting their targets, causing 2 ppl dead, and the other 2 on low health... The common reaction was "What the f***, maaann..." and we laughet big time, but the situation was not laughable...

Modifié par rgeshevv, 08 novembre 2012 - 03:28 .

[His Guardness]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Changes I want to see:

Decrease Prime RoF/Accuracy and lower chance to stun from 100%
Remove stagger from combat drone attack
Remove Geth Rocket Trooper Stagger
Fix double/triple/quadruple rocket scumbag missile glitching rocket troopers
Fix hunters shooting you while staggered/stasised/frozen/on the floor etc.

I agree that those fixes are direly needed but I'd suggest an entirely different aproach to the stunlock problem.

My suggestion would be not to change the Geth as such but to change the way the stun mechanic works:

Add a DR (dimishing returns) to all stun effects.  I'd suggest a stun-immunity for about 2-3s after every first stun. (For example: the first shot of a prime can stun you this way but the other two would not due to temporary stun immunity).
This way the actual rate of (working) stuns would be  much lower and the whole situation could be much more predictable/manageable.

On a related note, I would also suggest to add a rather long stun immunity to all revives of about 4-5s starting with the beginning of the getting-back-up animation.
This way this ridiculous/aggravating situation where you get stunlocked and instantly killed again after getting up/being revived would cease to exist.

On yet another also related note, another of my suggestions would be to tie the stagger/stun mechanic into the sync kills. Meaning that being staggered/stunned would be a mandatory requirement for the ability to be sync-killed.
Sure, there are a few bosses that would need a slightly faster melee to not invalidate their sync-kill ability but this would also give the players the ability to acually react to the situation.  (And not just being killed by a sneaky Banshee that teleports right next to you and instantly sync kills you)

just my 2 cent

Modifié par His Guardness, 08 novembre 2012 - 03:27 .

[NuclearTech76]

HolyAvenger wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...
There are only a few units in any enemy faction that can sync kill you even then there are easy ways to avoid sync kills. Every enemy unit in the Geth faction (exception is troopers) can stun lock you and your teammates.

Stunlocking is much less threating than sync-killing, so more units that do it doesn't bother me that much. Stunlocking can also be avoided. If you're getting stunlocked all the time, I have no idea how you're playing against the geth because that is not something that happens to me. Maybe its only something that happens to players with a super-aggressive playstyle...which is again, fine by me, because different factions SHOULD require different tactics.

The geth are not the much a problem if you stay in a defendable location and have a competent team. The problem is you are forced to play that way or use consumables like hell. And if you're in a PUG match with a bunch of idiots, you're screwed.

So, basically, we're agreed then? The geth are fine if you adapt your tactics while facing them with a competent group. What you call being forced to play a certain way, I call a variation in the challenge an enemy faction offers. If all tactics were equally well against all factions, I would find that very boring.

I play UUG, and I extract just as often against geth as any other faction. And if you're in a PUG match with a bunch of idiots against any faction, you're screwed.

Most find it boring to camp or be forced into a particular way of playing. It's sad when Bioware acknowledges a problem with a faction and instead of fixing it introduces more problems.

Nope on your last point. We're usually getting paid no matter what, it's just I hate using excessive comsumables carrying a bad lobby or being restricted to a certain character that I know I can clinch with if things go sideways.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

Crimson Vanguard wrote...

Feneckus, RedJohn, me and another random guy (which I considered him good because of his UR X) we all made Collector bite dust in London but then in Ghost against Geth we bit dust.

You can't possibly be serious. What setups were you guys playing?

 

Xcal Jay and I once wiped on Platinum/London/Geth on wave 3.

True story.

Tbh, I was laughing waay too much with the random who had 8 points and kept dying to play seriously.

[megabeast37215]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Xcal Jay and I once wiped on Platinum/London/Geth on wave 3.

True story.

Hack?

[HemanSoldat]

Someone should make the Xzbit meme thingy with the dev logic regarding the geth: "You dawg, we heard you were complaining about stunlock versus geth, so we added more stunlock that the units that stunlocked you wouldn't be the only ones to stunlock! Welcome".

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Agreed. Putting stagger on the Drone's rocket was overkill, considering the Geth Bomber was added with a short range stun and stagger bombs. Playing against Geth now, there are way too many things on the map with stagger/stun attacks.