8 réponses à ce sujet

[Lethys1]

I realize games haven't really been doing what I'm about to say since the early to mid 2000s, but I think there should be less voicework done for this game and it should be replaced by text.  The reason for this is that voicework is a massive part of a game's budget nowadays, and requiring lines for every possibility in a story seems to make writers limit the number of options they give players when making decisions.

A game like Fallout 1 or 2, for example, could offer way more options for you to go about doing something because it's just different text responses.  I'm not saying this game should use text in the same way, but maybe a letter is left on a table for your character to read instead of having a certain coversation, or you read something posted on a wall, or there's a secret code mini-game that reveals information to you so you don't have to have conversations.

It seems like if one were to plot a chart, the moment at which RPG's started being fully voiced is the same moment they started being far more restrictive in their design.  Combat-only design replaced more creative ideas involving skill checks, as an example.  I personally would trade voicework in entirely for a fuller, branching RPG experience, but I realize that isn't a popular opinion.

Modifié par Lethys1, 08 novembre 2012 - 05:15 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Combat-only design replaced more creative ideas involving skill checks, as an example.

Just as a note, I think if you look back in RPG history Combat-Only design has been a heavy mainstay. I find many early RPGs to really be not a whole lot more than combat simulators and if you were lucky there was a decent story attached to it.

[Allan Schumacher]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The Fallout series, in spades. You could sneak, talk or even Science your way out of tons of combat encounters.
In the same vein, Arcanum.
Pretty much any TES game or a game with either a Speech skill or a Sneak skill.
Which leads into pretty much any game with a D&D/AD&D build.
Lots of games. 

Maybe I'm just old, but none of the games you listed aren't the types of games I consider "old games."  I'm thinking Wizardry, Gold Box, original Ultimas (heck even many of the later Ultimas).

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 09 novembre 2012 - 12:13 .

[Allan Schumacher]

They also had multiple choices and gave the player a ton of freedom in how to get things done while still having a coherent story.

Did the Baldur's Gate games (or even the Infinity Engine games in general) really offer a ton of freedom for how to get things done?

Opinions are just that a person's opinion. People do not have to like
the opinion, but that does not make it any less valid than someone
else's opinion.

In general (and especially within the context of "Do you like video game X") I agree.

They have their opinion, but their opinion is wrong.

When discussing whether or not someone feels a game provided more entertainment from them, no their opinion is not wrong.  It's fine for you to disagree and to state you found said game did not provide more entertainment for you, but telling other people that what they feel is wrong is something no person here is qualified to make.

Unless you'd appreciate me telling you that your gaming preferences are wrong, I'd encourage people to not go down this road when interacting with other posters.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 10 novembre 2012 - 09:47 .

[Allan Schumacher]

I wasn't arguing that it was invalid to like DA2. I was saying there is such a thing as an objective level of quality. Big Rigs Over the Road Racing, anyone?

While I understood the Picasso reference, I disagreed with your notion that people that prefer Big Bang Theory over Community are wrong in their opinions.

And Planescape: Torment certainly offered a ton of freedom for how to get things done, obviously it was made by Black Isle, not Bioware, but, seeing as how it is pretty universally accepted as the best wRPG ever made, it should be the model to strive for in terms of story and choice in a RPG. Obviously it would be impossible to have a story with that much reactivity be voice acted, which is the premise of this thread.

While I agree that it's probably my favourite RPG, it HAS been a long time since I played it. Is there really a ton of freedom, however, in how to get things done? From what I remember, it doesn't seem to hold much of a candle to a game like Fallout (a game where varying paths, and in general non-lineartyseems a lot clearer to me). Most of the variability I remember comes from dialogues, but given the game is so heavily slanted to a high int/wis build, I'll admit I don't know if some of the strength/dexterity options that I know exist in the early game hold up in the long term.

I guess my question is: "how much freedom is a ton of freedom?"

[Allan Schumacher]

I think, perhaps, a better question is why one game would be PERCEIVED to have more freedom than another? The amount of ACTUAL choices is, honestly, a little pointless, since it is the feeling, the player's PERCEPTION, that ultimately is the determiner. Baldur's Gate didn't have a lot of choice opportunities in how to address situations with gameplay when compared to a game like Planescape, yet the amount of dialogue options (and shades of intent, emotion and purpose) is surpassed. Meanwhile, a game like DA2, which had a decent amount of custom dialogue based on certain situations (such as friendship/rivalry with your companions) is stated as having much less choice.

I'd agree, which is why I personally place a ton of value on the first playthrough for myself. If I replay a game and pull the curtain back and realize there wasn't the level of choice that I thought there was (i.e. Deus Ex), I don't let that negatively affect the game for me.

[Allan Schumacher]

I agree, however your example of Deus Ex (where you have the false option of joining UNICEF) would possibly be jarring and aggravating if you had tried to join UNICEF and had been blocked (I would assume).

Possibly. It wasn't though (since I made the other choice). I don't recall what happens if you try to stay peaceful with UNATCO (aside from ultimately knowing it doesn't work), though my perspective is forever slanted because it's not what I first chose to play.

My point was merely an anecdote agreeing about the perception of choice and nothing more.

[Allan Schumacher]

It actually has nothing to do with your Cunning score and is available to any human noble male. I just simply do not consider King Consort anywhere near the same league as being ACTUALLY king (or queen, which is possible).

What on earth is the difference between King Consort and Queen?

Planescape Torment, Baldur`s Gate 2 (based on your charisma stat. Few times, though), Fallout 1-2. Arcanum. Icewind Dale 2 let you use diplomacy to avoid combat (once or twice). Kotor had it. Some games also lets you sneak past enemies to avoid combat. Sneaking was a skill, so it counts. i can think of a ton of games that let you do that. I guess you haven`t played too many old crpgs.

Again, I think the issue here is what people consider "old" CRPGs. Since Hoorayforicecream is quoting me, it may be prudent for me to clarify that I am talking about *very old* (see 1980s) CRPGs. By today's standards many are just dungeon hacks in comparison.

[Allan Schumacher]

EDIT: Taking this offline since it's off topic.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 15 novembre 2012 - 01:55 .