Allan Schumacher wrote...
Fast Jimmy wrote...
The Fallout series, in spades. You could sneak, talk or even Science your way out of tons of combat encounters.
In the same vein, Arcanum.
Pretty much any TES game or a game with either a Speech skill or a Sneak skill.
Which leads into pretty much any game with a D&D/AD&D build.
Lots of games.
Maybe I'm just old, but none of the games you listed aren't the types of games I consider "old games." I'm thinking Wizardry, Gold Box, original Ultimas (heck even many of the later Ultimas).
Darklands (1992) once again proves it was ahead of it's time.
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Many encounters could be bypassed or avoided through a combination of alchemy, prayer, diplomacy, intimidation and stealth. It was done through the CYOA sections though, not the dungeon crawling/combat mode.
i.e you could bluff your way past ruffians, sneak in and break into buildings under the cover of darkness, use alchemy to escape foes, and pray to Saints for a miracle in difficult situations.
A favourite of mine is utilising rope and Agility skills to climb up the walls of a Raubritter's Castle in the middle of the night, the party would then sneak around his men and start up several fires, smoking the Raubritter out. Sure, it still ends in combat, but it's the difference between the Raubritter + 2 retainers, vs a full castle of ~20 armed hostiles that the direct approach would have.
Let alone the dedicated non-combat gameplay like potion-making (ingredients, recipes, don't make them in Inns because they think you're satanic, etc), learning about Saints at universities, interacting with NPCs like merchants, priests, hermits and the like.
To that end, the Realms of Arkania games also qualify, as a significant amount of the gameplay is based around travelling the world, solving puzzles, interacting with NPCs and the gameworld with your skills, etc.
Those are just the ones I've played recently. I'm sure there are other games that fit the bill.
Also, it's not
really an example of going against Combat-Only design, but Wasteland could be mentioned because it pioneered the Use Skill on Gameworld concept.
It's really not a multiple-solution type thing that the OP talks about, or that these older games allowed you to fully play as a pacifist, but they incorporate significant non-combat gameplay and/or the usage of skills and abilities outside of combat encounters.
One thing I feel is sorely missing from BioWare games (pretty much all of them KotOR onwards) is capacity for an emergent experience, and I feel that an emergent experience is contingent on having the mechanics, systems and reactivity necessary to allow for a certain amount of player freedom. In an RPG, that kind of freedom typically extends to non-combat gameplay or playstyles, but is not limited to that.
An example was for a recent Fallout 2 playthrough. I had a pretty useless character for LP purposes, and couldn't beat the final confrontation with Lara and the mercs at The Den. So I went onto the other side of town, beat the local drug dealers unconscious, looted all their drugs and weapons, bought Vic to help me, then went nuts on Buffout.
What I feel is that the "interactivity" of BioWare games is too often in a vacuum. This ties into the notion of having multiple-solutions or plot variability, because it's part of that whole gameplay-story segregation crap I like to b*tch about. Sometimes it's like the game you play and the movie you watch are completely divorced.
The difference the "Combat-Only" mantra back then and now was because it provided an integral and variable part of the interactive experience. Whereas in BioWare games, it's filler for the cinematics. You could cut out about 100% of combat in Dragon Age 2 or Mass Effect 3, replace them with a short clip with the player winning combat and nothing of value would be lost. Try doing the same thing to Wizardry.
FWIW, I actually think the lack of permadeath is the greatest cause of a lack of emergent experiences
within the combat. The injuries don't really mean anything and characters can't die. It's one aspect almost all of the older games shared and I do think that despite the frustrations of reloaders who don't want their favourite romance to die, the idea of a party member dying driving the others into a frenzy, or to despair naturally through gameplay, could allow for some unique experiences. Basically, capacity for measured failure is good, IMO.
You're a fan of JA 2, right? I find that Strategy games are probably the best example of this (emergent experience through gameplay) making up the entire game, as opposed to it complimenting a set narrative (linear or non-linear), which is what I'd like to see more in RPGs. Also, JA 2 is basically what I described above.
To the OP: it's not voicework, it's BioWare and how they choose to make their games. The original Deus Ex was released in the year 2000, after all.
Modifié par CrustyBot, 09 novembre 2012 - 07:21 .
for a field he knows nothing about while suggesting to use out of date practices that he himself admits to being obsolute to address a non existant problem he knows nothing about
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