220 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr_Extrem]

Mcfly616 wrote...

LilLino wrote...

I don't agree. I prefer Bioware's ending. This mod actually offers less choice than the original and doesn't explain the Reapers origins nor goals.

If the ending was like this I'd be pissed.

No, I really appreciate modder's good work, it's very nice of him, but don't turn his good will to a weapon against Bioware and it's employees. I doubt he'd want that.

agreed. The mod is well done. But hardly carries the emotional impact that the Extended Cut has

to be honest .. i had enough emotional impacts during the game. (personal preference)

[KingZayd]

David7204 wrote...

The proof is inherent. It's basic storytelling. You don't end a story like Mass Effect without a confrontation with the antagonist. You don't end it by solving the central conflict with Deus Ex Machina. The current endings suck, but at the very least they give some context for why the choices exist, which this fails to do. You don't end it by completing leaving out any motivation or reason for the antagonist to exist.

I haven't tried the mod, but I'd rather have no explanation for the Reapers and their motives (you can speculate using ME2 revelations pretty well), than the Starchild. 

[David7204]

Also, a MacGuffin is not a negative or derogatory term. It's a perfectly acceptable element of quality storytelling, and thus shouldn't be thrown around like an insult.

[Chief Commander]

David7204 wrote...

If you don't care about an ending being thematically consistent with heroism mattering and you just want a happy ending, fine. That's your opinion.

However, what's not fine is complaining about those things in the current game (such as in the current ending) and then claiming an ending that lacks those things (such as this one) is a masterpiece. That is blatant hypocrisy, and that is what I see here.

I want a happy ending, yes. But it also has to make sense. I´m not saying this ending is perfect, but it´s a right way in the proper direction. Obviously some things need polishing. Happy endings have always been an unwritten law in video games. Give the player a sense of achievement. Dying, becoming the new Reaper overlord, or forcing a DNA change on the galaxy is not really any heroic act or any achievement.

[Lolomlas]

LilLino wrote...

I don't agree. I prefer Bioware's ending. This mod actually offers less choice than the original and doesn't explain the Reapers origins nor goals.

If the ending was like this I'd be pissed.

No, I really appreciate modder's good work, it's very nice of him, but don't turn his good will to a weapon against Bioware and it's employees. I doubt he'd want that.

I'm with you on this. I prefer the offical endings (with EC!) over this happy ending mod.

[HellbirdIV]

LilLino wrote...

It's been said in ME1 that Reapers motivation are incomprehensible to organic mind and that's exactly what I got.

"Stupid" and "incomprehensible" are not the same thing. The Reapers motivation is not "alien" or "surreal", it's just plain ol' derpy.

[His Name was HYR!!]

Greylycantrope wrote...

How do we not? They explain quite clearly how they see teh universe functions, what they do and why they do what they do.They're not unknowable they're quite clear.

They're dealing with a problem that we have not even seen during our civilization. Not quite. It is a problem that did, however, exist in a time period long before ours in a civlization far more advanced. For that reason, the threat seems far-fetched/illogical to many and why we have so many people say "Their logic is wrong, look at Rannoch."

There is a fundamental difference in our perspective and the catalyst's because we do not share any similar experiences of time or place. For that reason, the Reapers' motives are basically not something we can fully understand.

[David7204]

I don't think this is better. Yes, the current endings handled the themes horribly. But all this does is sidestep those themes entirely. It doesn't solve anything, it just avoids. Anyone can make a story where the themes and issues are just avoided. This is no closer to 'making sense' than the original ending.

It's a half-measure. You don't fix a mistake by making another mistake on top of it.

Lastly, yes, there absolutely should have been a 'perfect' ending. But that has nothing to do with Mass Effect being a video game. It would have been just as true for any medium.

Modifié par David7204, 08 novembre 2012 - 07:21 .

[Banul]

My ending was happy enough. The Reapers are blown up and Shepard was alive.

[Chief Commander]

David7204 wrote...

I don't think this is better.
(......)
Lastly, yes, there absolutely should have been a 'perfect' ending.

So your point is...? You admit that this should have been in the game, but still try to make it look bad. What is it that you want? Explanation for the Reapers motives? Is that so important to you that you would take a logically flawed explanation over no explanation at all?

[Dr_Extrem]

David7204 wrote...

Also, a MacGuffin is not a negative or derogatory term. It's a perfectly acceptable element of quality storytelling, and thus shouldn't be thrown around like an insult.

the reapers reasons were a macguffin in the first 2 games - and it worked out perfectly.

you can implement the reason as a macguffin - there was no insult.

it is better to leave the reasons a macguffin, than to try to explain them, with a deus ex machina.


a macguffin is a sneaky and cool story tool - the deus ex machina we got, is the opposite.

[futurepixels]

MattFini wrote...

futurepixels wrote...

I understand Bioware sticking to their endings, but I don't understand their reluctance to add more endings to a game that is supposed to be about choice.

Every piece of DLC should come with a new ending.  Positive or grim, just give use more ways to end the story, so we can keep playing with new versions of Shepard.

Yeah, I respect BioWare's vision even if I despise it.

I think the Catalyst is possibly the greatest storytelling mistake I've seen in any medium (and i'm talking about games/movies/books that were otherwise GOOD) - but if the Destory ending was left as is, and included a little bit more after the breath scene ... something similar to the end of ME1, with your crew searching the Citadel ruins and descovering Shepard alive (or dead, depending on EMS?), I would've been perfectly content with that.

It's their crappy cling to worthless ambiguity that makes Destory infuriating. I get high EMS and you still can't tell me whether or not my main character is alive or not?  And that's the end of his story!?  What a load of crap. 

I 100% agree with you on the ambiguity of the high EMS Destroy ending.  I got into it with Chris P about it around a month ago, when he got some kicks out of changing someone's thread title who wanted to state that Shepard is alive in high EMS Destroy.  He went on to say that the endings are not ambigious, and then had nothing to say when we pointed out that not knowing whether the main character dies in one of the endings is the definition of ambigious.

The lack of closure with high EMS Destroy is the only thing still really pisses me off, and I don't plan to ever forgive them for it until they give us closure.

[His Name was HYR!!]

Chief Commander wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

OP got lost along the way as well.

Got lost? I think that´s called "having a discussion", no?

I meant that you missed the point of what I was saying there.

DirtyMouthSally wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...
False.

The Reapers motives are not within our comprehension, the problem they deal with is typically never seen in our civlization. Why? Because they deal with it before our galaxy advances to that point.

The problem the Reapers deal with is never seen as it is seen in Shepard's civilization now? Is that what you're saying?

Not "never" necessarily. Rannoch is basically the first instance of it, though.

The Geth didn't go from primitive to AI in between ME1 & 3.  They were AI in ME1, actually prior to ME1.

No. In ME1 & 2, the geth are networked-intelligences. A single unit has animal intellect (only exception is Legion).

In ME3, they become "true" AI, provided you let them upload the 'code.

The Rannoch resolution is significant in that way: it shows an organic race that can conventionally defeat primitive synthetics becoming helpless when those synthetics are upgraded to AI status. Also, that organic/synthetic conflict is not necessarily always started by synthetics.

Would you mind elaborating on this a little more?

Are you referring to AI/synthetic process vs organic thought? "It is not something that you can comprehend"

My last post speaks to this point. Maybe that should clear it up.

[David7204]

Yes, it is better than nothing at all.

[Iakus]

Lolomlas wrote...

LilLino wrote...

I don't agree. I prefer Bioware's ending. This mod actually offers less choice than the original and doesn't explain the Reapers origins nor goals.

If the ending was like this I'd be pissed.

No, I really appreciate modder's good work, it's very nice of him, but don't turn his good will to a weapon against Bioware and it's employees. I doubt he'd want that.

I'm with you on this. I prefer the offical endings (with EC!) over this happy ending mod.

For me, I don't need to know the Reaper motivations.  And i'll take a non-choice where my character can live over a non-choice "life sucks, then you die" option any day of the week.

But in the end, it's not about replacing one ending with another.  It's about options which Biwoare failed to provide.  It's about player choice, and I chose to install this mod.  If you like the original options, great, they're still there.

[Mathias]

The quality of the EC endings are obviously better, but i still much prefer the MEHEM ending over what we got. It's a lot more satisfying to me.

I'm not sure why some people are saying the modded ending doesn't make sense. I mean you plug in the crucible, it works as advertised and blows up the Reapers, Joker rescues Shepard, the end. It makes sense to me. I mean it's pretty basic, and i think that's the weak point of the ending, but there's nothing confusing about it imo.

TBH i will take the most basic ending, over an artsy fartsy 2deep4u ending that was botched all to hell.

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 08 novembre 2012 - 07:46 .

[Chief Commander]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Chief Commander wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

OP got lost along the way as well.

Got lost? I think that´s called "having a discussion", no?

I meant that you missed the point of what I was saying there.

You were the one being so ambigious. You have to be clear in what you want to say. For many people english is not their first language (raises hand) and there may be some phrases we are not familiar with. Like that thing with the wife beating. You lost me there and I wasn´t sure what exactly you were saying anymore:?

Care to explain again?

David7204 wrote...

Yes, it is better than nothing at all.

Praise the lord, that´s what I have been trying to explain all along.

[xAmilli0n]

The MEHEM is impressive, and major props to its creator, but a happy ending does not equal a good ending. I feel like a lot of users are happy to settle for this mod, because its take them away from an ending they disliked (for the most part with good reason). Does this mean the MEHEM is a good ending? No. Is this the best Bioware could have done? No. There was a lot of potential for the conclusion of the Shepard trilogy. Neither achieve it.

My opinion blah blah blah

[Mathias]

xAmilli0n wrote...

The MEHEM is impressive, and major props to its creator, but a happy ending does not equal a good ending. I feel like a lot of users are happy to settle for this mod, because its take them away from an ending they disliked (for the most part with good reason). Does this mean the MEHEM is a good ending? No. Is this the best Bioware could have done? No. There was a lot of potential for the conclusion of the Shepard trilogy. Neither achieve it.

My opinion blah blah blah

I will agree with this. By defintion the MEHEM mod isn't "good", but on the other hand if you hated the offical endings (and a lot of people do), then this is the best you're gonna get. At least for awhile. The creator of the MEHEM is working towards polishing the mod even further.

But i'm still very happy with the mod and it's made the trilogy playable again for me. So to that degree i think it's a fantastic mod.

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 08 novembre 2012 - 07:47 .

[Chief Commander]

xAmilli0n wrote...

The MEHEM is impressive, and major props to its creator, but a happy ending does not equal a good ending. I feel like a lot of users are happy to settle for this mod, because its take them away from an ending they disliked (for the most part with good reason). Does this mean the MEHEM is a good ending? No. Is this the best Bioware could have done? No. There was a lot of potential for the conclusion of the Shepard trilogy. Neither achieve it.

My opinion blah blah blah

Yes yes. I am trying to convey that if Bioware had a conclusion like this in mind and wanted to do it perfectly they could have done it. Like you said neither endings are perfect, but I like the effort the creator of MEHEM has done. It goes in the right direction I wanted the series to end.

[David7204]

Just cause' it's triumphant don't mean it's gotta be dumb.

Good and smart aren't opposed.

[Iakus]

xAmilli0n wrote...

The MEHEM is impressive, and major props to its creator, but a happy ending does not equal a good ending. I feel like a lot of users are happy to settle for this mod, because its take them away from an ending they disliked (for the most part with good reason). Does this mean the MEHEM is a good ending? No. Is this the best Bioware could have done? No. There was a lot of potential for the conclusion of the Shepard trilogy. Neither achieve it.

My opinion blah blah blah

True enough.  But people are more willing to overlook the flaws to a happy ending than a sad one.  Particularly an unnecessarilly depressing ending. 

[Kel Riever]

Yes, the sucky ending(s) would be easy to fix.
Yes, it would help bring fans back, and probaly help sell DLC and the next BioWare product.

Therefore, it is obviously a terrible idea to fix the craptastic ending.

[Binary_Helix 1]

iakus wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

The MEHEM is impressive, and major props to its creator, but a happy ending does not equal a good ending. I feel like a lot of users are happy to settle for this mod, because its take them away from an ending they disliked (for the most part with good reason). Does this mean the MEHEM is a good ending? No. Is this the best Bioware could have done? No. There was a lot of potential for the conclusion of the Shepard trilogy. Neither achieve it.

My opinion blah blah blah

True enough.  But people are more willing to overlook the flaws to a happy ending than a sad one.  Particularly an unnecessarilly depressing ending. 

The fact that flaws are being overlooked with this mod proves that fans aren't endless nitpickers who'll never be content.

[xAmilli0n]

Chief Commander wrote...

Yes yes. I am trying to convey that if Bioware had a conclusion like this in mind and wanted to do it perfectly they could have done it. Like you said neither endings are perfect, but I like the effort the creator of MEHEM has done. It goes in the right direction I wanted the series to end.

Yes, Bioware could have created an ending like this that would have left many (myself probably included) happy and ready for the next triology.  Just making a comment, that as a whole, the ending could have been better than both what we got and the MEHEM.  How?  Well, thats the million dollar question.

I don't wish to take anything away from the creator of the MEHEM, he has my greatest respect for his efferot.

iakus wrote...

True enough.  But people are more willing to overlook the flaws to a happy ending than a sad one.  Particularly an unnecessarilly depressing ending. 

I agree.  The impact of what we got has left many players grasping for whatever they can get.

Modifié par xAmilli0n, 08 novembre 2012 - 07:57 .