220 réponses à ce sujet

[CommanderVyse]

By taking away the final starchild choice, Shepards choices in the series actually matter more. Now, you get to the end due to those actions over the 3 games. Those actions allow Shepard to defeat the Reapers using the Crucible (which was the goal of ME3).

The end no longer boils down to a single choice and victory is not because the catalyst allows it.

At no point do the Reapers become just machines running their programming. They remain an unknowable force. This preserves their menace and danger.

MrFob's ending is a triumphant conclusion to the series while leaving the possibility open for more adventures in the future. I have a reason now to buy DLC. Omega may not change the ending, but the DLC is no longer made irrelevant by it.

Bioware should be thanking MrFob as much as I am.

[David7204]

My problem is not people complaining about the ending. I have plenty of complaints myself. I think the ending sucked. My problem is the blatant hypocrisy of people shilling content as perfection when the same people would be screeching their heads off if such content was in the actual game.

And yes, that's exactly what it is. Shilling. This mod is nowhere close to the "best thing" possible. Yes, the original ending handled the themes horribly. But as I've said, all this does is sidestep those themes entirely. It doesn't solve anything, it just avoids. Anyone can make a story where the themes and issues are just avoided.

Finally, the idea that BioWare 'insists on pushing' the ending because they haven't released DLC that completely changes it is moronic. I'm sure BioWare regrets the ending as much as anyone here, as they should.

Modifié par David7204, 09 novembre 2012 - 10:48 .

[KingZayd]

David7204 wrote...

My problem is not people complaining about the ending. I have plenty of complaints myself. I think the ending sucked. My problem is the blatant hypocrisy of people shilling content as perfection when the same people would be screeching their heads off if such content was in the actual game.

And yes, that's exactly what it is. Shilling. This mod is nowhere close to the "best thing" possible. Yes, the original ending handled the themes horribly. But as I've said, all this does is sidestep those themes entirely. It doesn't solve anything, it just avoids. Anyone can make a story where the themes and issues are just avoided.

Finally, the idea that BioWare 'insists on pushing' the ending because they haven't released DLC that completely changes it is moronic. I'm sure BioWare regrets the ending as much as anyone here, as they should.

Is it being shilled as perfection? Or simply better than what we have now?

[inko1nsiderate]

David7204 wrote...

My problem is not people complaining about the ending. I have plenty of complaints myself. I think the ending sucked. My problem is the blatant hypocrisy of people shilling content as perfection when the same people would be screeching their heads off if such content was in the actual game.

And yes, that's exactly what it is. Shilling. This mod is nowhere close to the "best thing" possible. Yes, the original ending handled the themes horribly. But as I've said, all this does is sidestep those themes entirely. It doesn't solve anything, it just avoids. Anyone can make a story where the themes and issues are just avoided.

Finally, the idea that BioWare 'insists on pushing' the ending because they haven't released DLC that completely changes it is moronic. I'm sure BioWare regrets the ending as much as anyone here, as they should.

Obvious differences are that this is a mod made for a game that doesn't go out of its way to be mod friendly.  Imperfections are tolerated because the creator can't exactly make entirely new CGI scenes and entirely redo the ending.

I think the best you can do with a mod IS avoid an ending you hate.  The reason why people are praising it is probably because it allows them to actually play the game.  It isn't a great ending, it isn't the worst ending, and so maybe people can actually play through the series again and get some enjoyment out of it.  That isn't a bad thing, and pretending it is perfect is entirely understandable (if weird).

[davishepard]

EC is an ending happy enough for me, also I didn't like this mod.

[Chardonney]

It might not be perfect but it's way, way better than what BioWare gave us and actually gives me a possibility to play this game again, without feeling extremely nauseous in the end. It gave the game it's replay value back and I'm extremely thankfull for that, since BW has decided to waste their chance to appease a large amount of loyal fans.

[davishepard]

A fan that liked the endings may be so or more loyal than a fan that didn't like them, so I don't know what you are talking about.

[Chardonney]

davishepard wrote...

A fan that liked the endings may be so or more loyal than a fan that didn't like them, so I don't know what you are talking about.

I didn't say that those who didn't like the ending are more loyal than those who do like it. This is not a depate about that. Every loyal fan is a loyal fan in equal amount, even if they stand on different sides of the fence. There's no need to start bickering about who's more loyal. That would be childish.

[SpamBot2000]

David7204 wrote...

My problem is not people complaining about the ending. I have plenty of complaints myself. I think the ending sucked. My problem is the blatant hypocrisy of people shilling content as perfection when the same people would be screeching their heads off if such content was in the actual game.

And yes, that's exactly what it is. Shilling. This mod is nowhere close to the "best thing" possible. Yes, the original ending handled the themes horribly. But as I've said, all this does is sidestep those themes entirely. It doesn't solve anything, it just avoids. Anyone can make a story where the themes and issues are just avoided.

Finally, the idea that BioWare 'insists on pushing' the ending because they haven't released DLC that completely changes it is moronic. I'm sure BioWare regrets the ending as much as anyone here, as they should.

Where do you get this idea that "the same people would be screeching their heads off if such content was in the actual game" from again? As far as I can tell, it is simply one of the excuses for the present endings, implying that anyone not happy with them would in fact be IMPOSSIBLE to satisfy with anything. Whereas what I see is very specific criticisms of the very concept BW chose to force upon us, the Sophie's Choice Suicide ABC. If you happen to be a demanding perfectionist who would screech his head off no matter what, please stop projecting that attitude to people who do not share it.

As for shilling, where does this: "A shill, plant, or stooge is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing that he has a close relationship with that person or organization. Shill typically refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers the impression that he is an enthusiastic independent customer of a seller (or marketer of ideas) for whom he is secretly working." come into it? I doubt that too many people applauding the MEHEM are covertly involved with some party that stands to benefit from promoting it, unless they are all accounts that Mr. Fob has opened with different copies of ME3 in order to make a case for employability with BioWare. I suspect that I'm not one, at least.

And the "moronic" idea that BW is still pushing the ending is based on the moronic fact that all the SP DLC released so far, i.e. Leviathan and the EC patch, actively work to add to the backstory of the endings, which as we all know was simply not there in the release version of ME3. Yes, I'm sure many at BioWare in fact rue the day Hudson and Walters emerged from their lock-up amidst clouds of strange, acrid smoke and snuck the demolition materials into the game with wild whoops and uncontrollable giggles. But that has not and will not stop them from pushing it, since Mr. Hudson will not let them crawl up from that particular hole.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 09 novembre 2012 - 11:51 .

[davishepard]

Chardonney wrote...

davishepard wrote...

A fan that liked the endings may be so or more loyal than a fan that didn't like them, so I don't know what you are talking about.

I didn't say that those who didn't like the ending are more loyal than those who do like it. This is not a depate about that. Every loyal fan is a loyal fan in equal amount, even if they stand on different sides of the fence. There's no need to start bickering about who's more loyal. That would be childish.

So, with "since BW has decided to waste their chance to appease a large amount of loyal fans.", you didn't implied that the large amount of loyal fans are the ones that didn't liked the endings?

I see.

[Emphyr]

Hi People,

This is how i feel and felt. For me the journey i took with my Nicole Shepard starting as a novice adept in Me1 opened doors that visualized my love of Science Fiction.

I spent a lot of time creating Nicole who would carry me to the biggest game adventure i was gooing to start.

I never created another Shepard no male no Female, Nicole was the one i have spent more as 300 hours with in the Mass Effect Universe wich i love so deeply!

I have seen her dooing Paragorn , Renegade, She always amazed me! ( A big Hug to Jennifer Hale!)

In my private life i had happy moments but also loads of really sad moments ( my 2 sisters and Father died in a car accident).

Nicole Shepard always helped me to go on! I deeply thank the complete Bioware Mass Effect teams for creating this Universe i could travel in.

Nicole is so deep in my heart and soul! On her journey to defeat the reapers her best friends were Tali, Ashley and Garrus. ( and Kasumi took a special place)

We met Shiala , Aria, Wrex, Mordin, Thane, Grunt, and so many other souls .. it was such a good journey!

Whenever i felt down ore broken i started up Mass Effect 1 ore 2 and loaded a sequence that was very special for me! it always helped me to cry , laugh, feeling amazed..

Nicole Shepard is so so so so so special to me!
I have explored with her and her teammates the darkest corners of the ME universe.

Now about the endings Bioware have setup for us.. I dont hate them , i can understand the artistic version of it.. But i still think all 3 (4) endings dont fit.

Nicole choose the refuse ending.. Thats her! She just didnt trust and believe the Starchild AI.
and she died without saving the universe .

In my 2nd play of ME3 with Nicole she stopped sitting next to Anderson and had the best seats in the house.

I felt so empty in all endings bioware made for us... Even in the Destroy ending it is not confirmed that it is Shepard who does the breathing.. ( it can be Conrad Verner also in a fake n7 armor)

I tried to replay the games with Nicole, i tried loading my special saves.. it didnt work. I just could not start at any place or mission in the ME universe without always having in my mind... OW NO she is gooing to endup DEAD in the endings. So i quitted and tried to have fun with Star Control 2 ore Fallout Las Vegas.( but that didnt work!)

whenever i load up ME ( 1 2 ore 3) ore looking at my screenshots (i took more as 2500) i still was blocked to go on... ( She ended up dead) and BW confirmed that they would not do a revival project as we had in ME2.

I know some ore many off you will say that i am to much in love ore emotinaly attached to Nicole Shepard and yes thats true! I AM!!

Now the Mehem Mod has come out and oh men! Nicole lives! is reunited with her crew and her LI on the Normandy....

After the memorial scene she takes of with the Normandy to go were noone has gone before!
So she will continue to Be Commander Nicole Shepard , Captain of the Normandy. She can go werever she wants to go with all her beloved crew and teammates and her LI.

I Love it Just the thought alone she is still there, not dead, not green eyed, not beeing another dimension Reaper Godmother, Not destroyed.. she lives!

Mr Fob who created the Mehem endings mod .. Thank you so so much!
I didnt buy Leviathan, I did not plan to buy Omega..But now i will!

Nicole Shepard is out there in the universe with her crew and ppl she loved. All gained so much experience and can now deal with anything that endangers the safety of the Universe!

Here is Nicole (wounded but alive!)->





She is an Adept level 55 with 7450 TMS galactic readiness still at 50%
So she has to find the other 50% she missed

maybe she will even find out were Harbinger is hiding!

Ending this post that comes from my heart.. many regards to all off you that also got attached to their shepards.. I think that anyone who loves the Shep they went with and loves and felt close cannot agree with BW endings .. So get MEHEM!

Maybe the ppl that got not attached to Shep and mainly saw her/him as shooter ( Like in Doom, Quake, and so many other FPS do agree on the BW endings and the story is told and over and Goodbye.

I could not say Goodbye.
I love Mass Effect Deeply. I love Shepard Deeply! I want to continue exploring the Universe with Shep her teammate's and The Normandy.

Take Care,
Greetings From The Netherlands (Europe)



Sorry for my english and typo's I am Dutch and i am tired .. just had 4 nightshifts.
Take Care

Modifié par Emphyr, 09 novembre 2012 - 01:51 .

[Chardonney]

davishepard wrote...

So, with "since BW has decided to waste their chance to appease a large amount of loyal fans.", you didn't implied that the large amount of loyal fans are the ones that didn't liked the endings?

I see.

All I meant is that there is a large amount of players out there who do not like the ending and, yes, we too are loyal fans. We have that right, as well. I didn't say in any point that there are more or less of us in comparison, just that there is many of us.

Modifié par Chardonney, 09 novembre 2012 - 11:53 .

[davishepard]

Emphyr wrote...

Maybe the ppl that got not attached to Shep and mainly saw her/him as shooter ( Like in Doom, Quake, and so many other FPS do agree on the BW endings and the story is told and over and Goodbye.

At least you said "maybe".
Neverthless, not the firts case of people considering others didn't care for the story so they liked the endings, and not the last one, too.

Modifié par davishepard, 09 novembre 2012 - 11:52 .

[KingZayd]

davishepard wrote...

Chardonney wrote...

davishepard wrote...

A fan that liked the endings may be so or more loyal than a fan that didn't like them, so I don't know what you are talking about.

I didn't say that those who didn't like the ending are more loyal than those who do like it. This is not a depate about that. Every loyal fan is a loyal fan in equal amount, even if they stand on different sides of the fence. There's no need to start bickering about who's more loyal. That would be childish.

So, with "since BW has decided to waste their chance to appease a large amount of loyal fans.", you didn't implied that the large amount of loyal fans are the ones that didn't liked the endings?

I see.

difference between "a" and "the"

[davishepard]

KingZayd wrote...

difference between "a" and "the"

Oh, I wouldn't know if you didn't point that out, and I was totally ignoring this and thats the only reason I posted what I posted.

I should feel bad for myself and edit my posts leaving them empty, because the difference between "a" and "the" clarifies totally the points that I raised.

[davepissedatending]

Wow the reunion bit at the end is what I wanted all along great job wish I want playing on a Xbox now :| I cart believe bioware didn't do something like this with the ec. Very well done mate you need a job at bioware

[Mims]

I like both endings. I like the EC, I really do. I just hate the ghost child, and the way the choices are presented. [IE: Pick a door, any door!]

This mod is just nice to turn off my brain and play the game. I have the xbox trilogy for the original endings, and this one just to enjoy. As far as my canon goes, maybe in this case Shepard just got knocked on the head and no longer remembers ghost child. Its the same as destroy ending high ems anyways. EDI/Geth is a nice addition, but not really needed. I just don't want to deal with ghost child some playthroughs.

Ideally, if we ever get to this point, it would be nice to revamp the catalyst scene. But we're not there yet.

[Chief Commander]

MrFob wrote...

This thread was a very interesting read (even if I just skimmed a couple of posts).
Just wanted to offer my perspective on a few points:

First of all, I want to say that this mod is not supposed to "fix" the endings, to invalidate BWs endings or to insult BW. It is an option, a new interpretation. Think of it as a cover song if you will. As such, it is (or at least was meant as) a tribute to this series (if maybe not exactly the endings).
Maybe it would help if quickly explained how this thing originated:
It's true, I deeply dislike the old endings but not because they are bleak or sad or depressing but because they simply do not make sense (to me). I know this has been discussed to death and over the last 7 months I have read thousands of forum pages of all conceivable stances on the ending but until this day, I maintain that they do not make sense, logically and narratively.
My first approach to tackle this issue was MEEM (as opposed to MEHEM, sorry for my lack of naming skills, see my sig for the link). This mod, I made for myself, just as others would write their fan-fiction on paper or draw an image, I wanted to put my own fan-fiction in the game. I never asked anyone to like it or to agree with it. MEEM, for me personally is still my own subjective favourite when it comes to the endings (although, it is even more rough from a technical point of view).
After MEEM, I got responses on the forums, via PMs, on youtube, etc. Most of them were not even about MEEM. When people realised the ending could be modded, I was asked one thing over and over and over again: "What about a reunion scene?". At the start, I didn't really pay much attention but then I hit upon the idea of how it could be implemented. Once I had that in my head, I just had to try it out, for the technical challenge as much as anything else, just to see if it would work. So when it turned out that it would work, I created another fan-fiction (for a reunion to make sense) and I put it online to share it with the couple of people who had asked for it in the first place. Seriously, I did not expect this kind of a response.

There are a lot of valid arguments in this thread and a lot of good points, many of which I actually agree with (an example would be David7204's point of the lack of a final confrontation with the real antagonist, at least I think it was you, sorry if I am mistaken). However, people should remember that this mod is nothing more than fan-fiction, put into the game and that it was made for those who'd enjoy it rather than as a stab at BW or their story or at those guys who are happy with the original. I am sorry if people cannot see it that way but that is how it was meant.

There is only one criticism I do resent: I have read in some comments that putting in an ending like this shows that the author (i.e. me) completely mossed the point of the whole Mass Effect series. I respectfully disagree. Maybe I missed the point of ME3 (whatever that was) but not the series. You can argue about the dominant themes and which one is the most important but if you tell me that the option - only the option - of a triumphant ending goes against everything that ME stands for, than I would argue that the previous two games plus the Rannoch and the Tuchanka arcs of the third draw a very different picture. Should a happy ending be limited to an insanely high amount of EMS? Probably and If I could, I'd mod it that way, too.

Now, sorry for this wall of text. It seemed that this thread was the right place to disclose some of the motivations and background for this project which got way bigger than I ever anticipated in the first place.
Thanks to those who support and like it and to those who don't, thank you for engaging in the discussion and I do hope that the mere existence of this mod does not dampen your enjoyment of the original and/or EC endings.

Thank you for chiming in. I made clear that I do not speak in your name and will not make any assumptions about your motives to release this mod. But it is clear that you had to dislike the endings, because it motivated you to do something about it. First only for yourself and then for others too.

Thank you again for this amazing mod.

David7204 wrote...

My problem is not people complaining
about the ending. I have plenty of complaints myself. I think the ending
sucked. My problem is the blatant hypocrisy of people shilling content
as perfection when the same people would be screeching their heads off
if such content was in the actual game.

And yes, that's exactly
what it is. Shilling. This mod is nowhere close to the "best thing"
possible. Yes, the original ending handled the themes horribly. But as
I've said, all this does is sidestep those themes entirely. It doesn't
solve anything, it just avoids. Anyone can make a story where the themes and issues are just avoided.

Finally,
the idea that BioWare 'insists on pushing' the ending because they
haven't released DLC that completely changes it is moronic. I'm sure
BioWare regrets the ending as much as anyone here, as they should.

I want to make this absolutely clear for you: I don´t say this ending in particular should be put into the game. An ending similiar to this one. So I am talking about the possibility of a happy ending. Possible after refusing the catalyst. This mod cuts out the catalyst, because it fits better this way. An ending with the catalyst and a happy ending is possible too. For example:

Shepard: I refuse to make that choice yadda yadda"
Catalyst: "SO BE IT! The cycle continues!"
Shep: "Not on my watch"
Catalyst: "You can leave or watch your fleets get destroyed. Your call"

And then Shepard gets "thrown out" of the CItadel by the Catalyst (only possible if he has enough EMS) and continues the fight on the ground (possibly fighting Harbinger) and winning the war. If he has low EMS the fleets get destroyed. See? Easy.

[davishepard]

Chief Commander wrote...

I want to make this absolutely clear for you: I don´t say this ending in particular should be put into the game. An ending similiar to this one. So I am talking about the possibility of a happy ending. Possible after refusing the catalyst. This mod cuts out the catalyst, because it fits better this way. An ending with the catalyst and a happy ending is possible too. For example:

Shepard: I refuse to make that choice yadda yadda"
Catalyst: "SO BE IT! The cycle continues!"
Shep: "Not on my watch"
Catalyst: "You can leave or watch your fleets get destroyed. Your call"

And then Shepard gets "thrown out" of the CItadel by the Catalyst (only possible if he has enough EMS) and continues the fight on the ground (possibly fighting Harbinger) and winning the war. If he has low EMS the fleets get destroyed. See? Easy.

The fleet in the "enough EMS" are there to provide a safe deployment to the Crucible, and time to use it, not to engage an all out fight with the Reaper fleet.

It is stated since the game's beginning that the Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally. That's the whole point of building the Crucible, for God's sake.

Nothing "easy" as you said, not even possible.

Modifié par davishepard, 09 novembre 2012 - 01:38 .

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

The Hero dying is the biggest cliche in this gaming and movie world. It's overdone, and the only way you can pull it off is like RDR. And they got it nicely in between, ME didn't.

It would be better if we still had the Starchild (Rebel!) and we just got the Shepard putting the Anderson plate up on the wall for a high EMS destroy, and the LI hug, of course.

Honestly, the EC was a few pictures slapped together and some lunch break voice acting. Oh wait, I forgot...this is BSN.

[Chris Priestly]

Use the existing thread indicated in the OP.


LOCKDOWN!