22 réponses à ce sujet

[Sjerrie]

Okay... So I finally caved and I'm trying out a romance with Alistair. Never having played a female human noble either I quickly decided we'd become king & queen. Now: does hardening or not hardening Alistair have any effect on this scenario? Or on the romance in general? Thanks.

(On a sidenote, I'm having a bit of trouble making him useful... I respecced him into a 2-hander, but even with Sten tanking next to him he's always the first to die... But we'll see once we've leveled more...)

Modifié par Sjerrie, 08 novembre 2012 - 11:04 .

[keeneaow]

On the side-note, armor makes a world of difference,
but even armor dont help if you accidentally cold-cone him

[Ferretinabun]

You can have him King and marry him whether he is hardened or unhardened. His hardened status only comes into play if you are a non-human noble and want him to keep you on as his mistress.

As for the other, yes armour will help. I always find two-handers squishy in the first half of the game. The key is just to keep piling on the strength, strength and more strength. Soon he'll be a wrecking ball and no-one will be able to even get a hit in.

[sylvanaerie]

I find it hard to believe someone is finding it difficult to play with Alistair, thinking he's useless considering when you encounter him and add him to your party, he's level 2. His build is entirely left up to the player, not Bioware. He always fills the warrior/tank spot for me as S&S and is supurb in this role. I suppose OP is the S&S in this scenario and wanted to go somewhere different with him, but I always found 2 handers to be pretty squishy in this regard (Sten dies super fast in early combat and I rarely use him past Lothering).  It may be you need to make sure Alistair is wearing better gear if Sten is still up and Alistair keeps dropping?  Also, check Alistair's tactics if he is drawing too much aggro.  At the very least make sure he pops a heal potion at low health point.   Morrigan isn't the best healer early on.  2 handers do decent DPS, but not so good at being pounded on.

As to hardened/unhardened King Alistair, it does effect the relationship significantly (if you make him king). Unhardened Alistair doesn't want to be king, and in the epilogues it shows when he's always running away from his duties leaving the queen/his advisors to rule. This is a perfect scenario for the power hungry Warden who wants to control Ferelden with a puppet king.

Hardened Alistair makes a decent king and a good husband for the Queen, but we all know, there will be no heirs from this union. From a roleplay standpoint, my Queen Cousland said F* Eamon and his ideas of succession, and expects her neices/nephews will step in once she and Alistair go to their Calling. The Theirin line will end with Alistair, no matter what fate befalls him.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 09 novembre 2012 - 02:06 .

[mousestalker]

Sjerrie wrote...

Okay... So I finally caved and I'm trying out a romance with Alistair. Never having played a female human noble either I quickly decided we'd become king & queen. Now: does hardening or not hardening Alistair have any effect on this scenario? Or on the romance in general? Thanks.

(On a sidenote, I'm having a bit of trouble making him useful... I respecced him into a 2-hander, but even with Sten tanking next to him he's always the first to die... But we'll see once we've leveled more...)

May one inquire as to why you did this?

Assuming your human noble female is a sword and shielder, then your traditional party set up would be you as tank, Alistair as off-tank, Leliana/Zevran as ranged or melee damage and Wynne/Morrigan as healer. As tank, it's your job to hold aggro, Alistair's job to dish out damage.. That means the two of you should be whacking at the same target. If you set Alistair's tactics to hit the same enemy you are, that should help.

As for hardening, given the end result you want, it shouldn't matter. A hardened Alistair is less reluctant to become king, however.

[Sjerrie]

mousestalker wrote...

Sjerrie wrote...

Okay... So I finally caved and I'm trying out a romance with Alistair. Never
having played a female human noble either I quickly decided we'd become
king & queen. Now: does hardening or not hardening Alistair have any
effect on this scenario? Or on the romance in general? Thanks.

(On a sidenote, I'm having a bit of trouble making him useful... I
respecced him into a 2-hander, but even with Sten tanking next to him
he's always the first to die... But we'll see once we've leveled
more...)

May one inquire as to why you did this?

Assuming your human noble female is a sword and shielder, then your traditional
party set up would be you as tank, Alistair as off-tank, Leliana/Zevran
as ranged or melee damage and Wynne/Morrigan as healer. As tank, it's
your job to hold aggro, Alistair's job to dish out damage.. That means
the two of you should be whacking at the same target. If you set
Alistair's tactics to hit the same enemy you are, that should help.

Ahh, sorry, forgot to mention the rest of this base party layout. I also respecced Sten into sword-n-shield because, if I remember correctly, most of the Beresaad in DA2 were sword-n-shield... My noble female is actually an archer-rogue, think a less religious Leliana, but definitely the serious half of the couple. My primary mage will be Wynne. (With Mana Clash as priority, Maker I love that spell... :innocent:).

Now that we're a few levels along it does indeed seem that the two-hander's fragility is only temporary. Sten is now in the spiffy Warden-Commander armor (until I find something more appropriate) and drawing attention, and Alistair moves around chopping up enemies with upgraded armor and weapons while actually staying alive.

sylvanaerie wrote...

As to hardened/unhardened King Alistair, it does effect the relationship significantly (if you make him
king). Unhardened Alistair doesn't want to be king, and in the
epilogues it shows when he's always running away from his duties leaving
the queen/his advisors to rule. This is a perfect scenario for the
power hungry Warden who wants to control Ferelden with a puppet king.

Thanks for the insight, I thought that only happened if Alistair was solo or with Anora. I'm still deciding whether to go into power-hungry-mode, I guess I'll leave Al's personal quest for later.

sylvanaerie wrote...

Hardened Alistair makes a decent king and a good husband for the Queen, but we
all know, there will be no heirs from this union. From a roleplay
standpoint, my Queen Cousland said F* Eamon and his ideas of succession,
and expects her neices/nephews will step in once she and Alistair go to
their Calling. The Theirin line will end with Alistair, no matter what
fate befalls him.

Wouldn't offspring be theoretically possible? Extremely unlikely, because it involves not just one but *two* Wardens, but still possible? Consider also the Dark Ritual... A child with the soul of an Old God *and* of the Theirin line...

Modifié par Sjerrie, 10 novembre 2012 - 12:48 .

[sylvanaerie]

Sjerrie wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Sjerrie wrote...

Okay... So I finally caved and I'm trying out a romance with Alistair. Never
having played a female human noble either I quickly decided we'd become
king & queen. Now: does hardening or not hardening Alistair have any
effect on this scenario? Or on the romance in general? Thanks.

(On a sidenote, I'm having a bit of trouble making him useful... I
respecced him into a 2-hander, but even with Sten tanking next to him
he's always the first to die... But we'll see once we've leveled
more...)

May one inquire as to why you did this?

Assuming your human noble female is a sword and shielder, then your traditional
party set up would be you as tank, Alistair as off-tank, Leliana/Zevran
as ranged or melee damage and Wynne/Morrigan as healer. As tank, it's
your job to hold aggro, Alistair's job to dish out damage.. That means
the two of you should be whacking at the same target. If you set
Alistair's tactics to hit the same enemy you are, that should help.

Ahh, sorry, forgot to mention the rest of this base party layout. I also respecced Sten into sword-n-shield because, if I remember correctly, most of the Beresaad in DA2 were sword-n-shield... My noble female is actually an archer-rogue, think a less religious Leliana, but definitely the serious half of the couple. My primary mage will be Wynne. (With Mana Clash as priority, Maker I love that spell... :innocent:).

Now that we're a few levels along it does indeed seem that the two-hander's fragility is only temporary. Sten is now in the spiffy Warden-Commander armor (until I find something more appropriate) and drawing attention, and Alistair moves around chopping up enemies with upgraded armor and weapons while actually staying alive.

sylvanaerie wrote...

As to hardened/unhardened King Alistair, it does effect the relationship significantly (if you make him
king). Unhardened Alistair doesn't want to be king, and in the
epilogues it shows when he's always running away from his duties leaving
the queen/his advisors to rule. This is a perfect scenario for the
power hungry Warden who wants to control Ferelden with a puppet king.

Thanks for the insight, I thought that only happened if Alistair was solo or with Anora. I'm still deciding whether to go into power-hungry-mode, I guess I'll leave Al's personal quest for later.

sylvanaerie wrote...

Hardened Alistair makes a decent king and a good husband for the Queen, but we
all know, there will be no heirs from this union. From a roleplay
standpoint, my Queen Cousland said F* Eamon and his ideas of succession,
and expects her neices/nephews will step in once she and Alistair go to
their Calling. The Theirin line will end with Alistair, no matter what
fate befalls him.

Wouldn't offspring be theoretically possible? Extremely unlikely, because it involves not just one but *two* Wardens, but still possible? Consider also the Dark Ritual... A child with the soul of an Old God *and* of the Theirin line...

I don't feel like haunting and digging up the threads with the appropriate quotes (and don't know how to put the quotes here anyway), but the devs, (Gaider himself I believe) have said regardless of the scenario, Anora alone, Anora married to Cousland, Alistair with a Warden queen, Alistair alone (potentially married to someone not the warden), none will result in an heir for Ferelden.  And Morrigan herself said she 'wasn't making an heir' to the throne.  She has other plans for the OGB.   And the child isn't canon anyway.  In some playthroughs it isn't Alistair's.  It could also be the Warden or Loghain's.  Or it may not exist at all (in the case of the US ending).

I think they intend something very specific for this scenario at the least it isn't good when the ruling head dies and leaves noone to fill that role.  Chaos will ensue as everyone grabs for what they can get.  Case in point, what happened after Cailan's death.  I'm sure the civil war was started as much by ambitious nobles as by people opposed to Loghain.

It isn't theoretical about 'no kids for Alistair and Warden'.  It's been confirmed.  Two Grey Wardens can't have a child, and the possibility of a child for one Grey Warden and his/her untainted partner is diminished by the taint.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 12 novembre 2012 - 12:29 .

[Corker]

I admit, when I first saw the different epilogue possibilities for the various combinations of people on the throne, my first thought was that DA2 would be set a generation later, and would be about the Ferelden succession crisis. I thought it was a great way to give the PC choice in determining how things in the nation would go, and yet (through chance outside of the PC's control) bring everything back to a single plot for the next game.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Corker wrote...

I admit, when I first saw the different epilogue possibilities for the various combinations of people on the throne, my first thought was that DA2 would be set a generation later, and would be about the Ferelden succession crisis. I thought it was a great way to give the PC choice in determining how things in the nation would go, and yet (through chance outside of the PC's control) bring everything back to a single plot for the next game.

In DA3, we go all over Thedas, don't we? So theoretically, Bioware might still do that.

[Sjerrie]

A shameless kick for a new but related issue. I eventually hardened Alistair after reading on multiple sites that it is possible for him to automatically claim the throne at the Landsmeet, under certain conditions. However, after trying a few things (dueling loghain myself, letting Al have a go, and someone else, both of us executing him) I still always arrive at the scene where my Warden has to mediate and Alistair is always hesitant to become king. From a roleplaying perspective this looks really silly to me, especially when my Warden states she'll rule beside him.

Does anyone know what the *exact* requirements are for Alistair to claim the throne automatically, while still having the option for my warden to be queen? And is there an easy way to see if those flags are set, other than going through the Landsmeet again and again, and again..?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Can Alistair automatically claim the throne without shutting out his HNGF?

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 20 janvier 2013 - 03:57 .

[sylvanaerie]

Firstly, hardening him requires 2 steps.

1) initial meeting with Goldanna after which you pick the line "People are out for themselves" (or something like that, sounds awful but it's the one that gets him to buck up and stand up for himself).

2)Then you have to have a second dialogue (can be immediately after) where you confirm that line where he's on the fence saying 'what should I do?' withOUT saying "there are people who care for you" or "that's not what I meant". I can't recall the actual lines as it's been months, but there are TWO conversations that set his "hardening" and I'm sorry I can only recall the lines you DON'T want to use.  I don't recall the actual lines but its a confirmation of what was earlier discussed.  You want him to 'think for himself' and fight for his own happiness.

Alistair won't seize the throne, regardless of hardening (and still doesn't really want to be king at the landsmeet) no matter what you do on a Human Noble Female since in order to rule you HAVE to determine that he will marry you. Sorry, you don't get a proposal since the game has no clue what you want at that point but is giving you the opportunity to shape your character's path there. Hardened Alistair only siezes the throne if he duels Loghain (or is selected to kill him if you duel him) and you aren't a female human noble.

I do know Alistair is different at the landsmeet if unhardened in that he is more hesitant. When it comes to the issue with what do to with Anora he will hem and haw and finally decide 'well we have to do something' is pretty much going to be your only indicator. Hardened Alistair will say something like "Put her in the tower for now. If I die, she can have her throne, if not...we'll see..."

And during the decision making process, you can talk to him and Anora.  Unhardened Alistair is more hesitant about taking the throne, though he will if you see no other way out for him.  Hardened Alistair is more confident in his ability to rule and get the blight taken care of and will say 'I can do this'.

*Edit as it occured to me* If you determine you skipped the second conversation, you can always do that after the landsmeet.  I had a playthrough on my Cousland warrior where I held off that second conversation so going in he was unhardened just to see what he would do/how it was different, especially if you were going to marry him.  Frankly all that wishy washy hemming and hawing made me want to slap him.  Unhardened, even though he will be marrying his lady love, Alistair doesn't want to be king.  I Rp'ed that gradually Valora convinced him he was best for Ferelden and she'd be around to help him in the time they had left after the Landsmeet, but before the final battle.  I also staved off their 'first night together' till after the landsmeet.

I believe there was also a time when a bug in the game kept him from firing his hardened lines at the Landsmeet.  I am unaware if any of the subsequent Bioware patches fixed it.  Cmessaz's wonderful IRS-Alistair mod restores a lot of cut dialogue, fixes some broken flags and bugs in the game, provides some new scenes (one-of six-which is origin-specific).  Sorry, I didn't think to recommend it earlier because your post had a more 'I'm never doing this again' feel to it and it's been out so long I figured most everyone who was a fan of Alistair knew about it.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 20 janvier 2013 - 12:09 .

[Sjerrie]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Alistair won't seize the throne, regardless of hardening (and still doesn't really want to be king at the landsmeet) no matter what you do on a Human Noble Female since in order to rule you HAVE to determine that he will marry you. Sorry, you don't get a proposal since the game has no clue what you want at that point but is giving you the opportunity to shape your character's path there. Hardened Alistair only siezes the throne if he duels Loghain (or is selected to kill him if you duel him) and you aren't a female human noble.

Thanks, this was the answer I was looking for. Shame indeed though there's no proposal.

[emeraldtrader]

I had a hardened Alistair duel Logain after which Alistair immediately executed Logain and then claimed the throne. there was no talk of marriage with Anora before the landsmeet. (F/nonhuman warden in relationship with Alistair)
However...I had a unhardened Alistair due/execute Logain. Anora refused to marry her fathers executioner

[Sjerrie]

From what I've gathered, Anora will never marry her father's executioner, be it PC or Alistair. And for her to marry Alistair you need to talk about the option with both of them and Eamon every time you can.

Modifié par Sjerrie, 20 janvier 2013 - 11:55 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I had this plan during my second HN playthrough where Alistair duels and executes Loghain (which my Warden never saw coming of course) and my PC then marries Anora. Except then Alistair passes because I'm the one trying to take the throne, and then I have to outright sanction Loghain's execution. Sounds like the sort of thing that would start a marriage off on a sour note, huh?

[Addai]

Alistair has a couple romance dialogue lines when unhardened that are sweet. You could find them too saccharine sweet, potentially. I have some videos of them up on my YouTube page (here and here). However he shows more backbone in the events around the Landsmeet if he's hardened, so personally I prefer that if I'm going to have him on the throne. It's hard to respect him otherwise, for me.

I re-spec him to dual wielder and he crushes everything.

Modifié par Addai67, 21 janvier 2013 - 05:58 .

[Sjerrie]

Can I conclude from the first vid that you were romancing him and then forcing him to marry Anora? Haven't done that one before...

I see he's wearing leathers, did you re-spec him to warrior-dual or all the way to rogue-dual? What weapons is he wielding?

[Addai]

DW warrior- you can't re-spec classes with any mod that I know of. I think those weapons are from a mod called Forgotten Weapons. The thing is, with high dexterity you don't need clunky armor.  You just never get hit, and everything is dead so fast it doesn't matter anyway.

Modifié par Addai67, 21 janvier 2013 - 10:18 .

[Sjerrie]

Respeccing a base class might be possible with the console, it's on my to-try list.

I love DWs for the same reason. In my current game Oghren is dual wielding Starfang and Maric's blade (the shiny one) and he is just slicing and dicing away...  It's a shame that the more suitable weapons are usually swords.

[ejoslin]

Sjerrie wrote...

A shameless kick for a new but related issue. I eventually hardened Alistair after reading on multiple sites that it is possible for him to automatically claim the throne at the Landsmeet, under certain conditions. However, after trying a few things (dueling loghain myself, letting Al have a go, and someone else, both of us executing him) I still always arrive at the scene where my Warden has to mediate and Alistair is always hesitant to become king. From a roleplaying perspective this looks really silly to me, especially when my Warden states she'll rule beside him.

Does anyone know what the *exact* requirements are for Alistair to claim the throne automatically, while still having the option for my warden to be queen? And is there an easy way to see if those flags are set, other than going through the Landsmeet again and again, and again..?

Alistair has to be hardened, cannot be in love with a human noble female, and cannot be engaged to Anora.

If Alistair takes the throne automatically, the HNF will not have the option to enter into a marriage.  Alistair does not come up wtih this idea on his own -- if romantically involved but he's not in love, the best you can do in this situation is become his mistress.

[Sjerrie]

@Addai67, I tried using the console like I said. Add base class rogue, remove base class warrior, respec. It works sofar as to give Alistair in this case all rogue capabilities while leveling, but interestingly the character screen keeps saying "Level X warrior" and the available specializations are still the warrior's...

[Addai]

Well, DW warrior is good enough. It seems sad to miss out on backstabs but his War Cry is always fun, and Cleanse is useful.