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[twintalons]

And what made this whole area creepier was that I couldn't stop thinking 'we come HERE to die???'

'I don't wanna die down here!!!!!'

I wished there had been some dialogue with Alistair about that stuff when you are down there. I mean geeees, you click on him and all you get it 'At your service' or whatever. You'd think he'd have more than that to say at the thought of it all !!!

[Aseya]

twintalons wrote...

And what made this whole area creepier was that I couldn't stop thinking 'we come HERE to die???'
'I don't wanna die down here!!!!!'
I wished there had been some dialogue with Alistair about that stuff when you are down there. I mean geeees, you click on him and all you get it 'At your service' or whatever. You'd think he'd have more than that to say at the thought of it all !!!

I wish there was more party ineteractipons regarding the different plot situtation in genereal but the fact none of them commented on the brood mother was very dissapointing. would be nice if their responses were flagged based on where you are at leats for some places

[robertthebard]

eschilde wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Skydiver8888 wrote...

And people wonder why there aren't more female Grey Wardens....

Because they would be killed at initiation if it failed?

If they are GW, shouldn't they be immune to Broodmotherification (<- The scientific term) due to "mastering" their taint. Otherwise, going into the deep roads before dying is an extremely stupid move.

Agreed, the broodmother thing seems to be another path darkspawn corruption can take. Since as a Grey Warden you've already ingested the taint, they can't do anything more to turn you. On the other hand, after 30 or so years of having the taint, you end up with more and more dreams, right? And that's when you go to Orzammar to die. Whee.

1) What happens to Wardens during times of non-Blights? Presumably they still have dreams but there's no active archdemon to 'talk' to them?
2) What is it about the dreams that tells you your time has come? Do you feel compelled to go to the Deep Roads to die?
3) If that's so, how are you really different than a ghoul? Does the darkspawn taint have something in common with blood magic mind control? 

Once they reach the "end", they get to where they can't control the dreams, and they begin to hear "voices" even when they are awake, this is how they know it's time.  We know that the Old Gods sing to the taint, so it just becomes increasingly harder to not hear it?  Alistair comments that it's much worse during a Blight, which is how they know it's truly a Blight, but nowhere is it indicated that it doesn't happen all the time.

Ruck would be considered a ghoul.  However, the GW taint is accomplished by a different means, which I too have asked how they discovered it.  Ruck ate the darkspawn, but he didn't have archdemon blood mixed in, and there was no "ritual" prior to his feasting...

[CREinstein]

All I know is, the writer of that dialogue, the director, they are geniuses and best have job security at bioware, those guys made one of the more epic intro's to an otherwise boring section of play.

[eschilde]

robertthebard wrote...

Once they reach the "end", they get to where they can't control the dreams, and they begin to hear "voices" even when they are awake, this is how they know it's time.  We know that the Old Gods sing to the taint, so it just becomes increasingly harder to not hear it?  Alistair comments that it's much worse during a Blight, which is how they know it's truly a Blight, but nowhere is it indicated that it doesn't happen all the time.

Ruck would be considered a ghoul.  However, the GW taint is accomplished by a different means, which I too have asked how they discovered it.  Ruck ate the darkspawn, but he didn't have archdemon blood mixed in, and there was no "ritual" prior to his feasting...

Hm :| okay, yeah, I guess the archdemons do constantly sing.. but then, do you hear just one? Or multiple archdemons..? There's still a bunch left. Why is it that they don't hear the other ones, or do they?

Yes, I know Ruck is a ghoul, but what I was asking was the GW taint is similar to darkspawn corruption, no? Similar, but different. Evidently the darkspawn can sense you and know that you are not one of them, whereas as a ghoul they would think you are. Ghouls are compelled to serve the archdemon or darkspawn, right? So they either do so or are driven insane. So, is the end-of-life calling similar to a compulsion?

Ruck is a ghoul, but what is Hespith? Besides on her way to becoming a broodmother? (As a side note, there really should be an option to kill her before she undergoes a complete transformation..) Maybe being a ghoul is kind of.. like a larval stage to becoming a broodmother?

Obviously the Wardens have more control over it, but they go to the Deep Roads to die. Why is that, besides tradition? What happens if they don't do that? Would they also be driven insane by the singing?

I also want to know what darkspawn corruption has to do with blood magic, if anything. If you take Morrigan into the Circle Tower, she'll mention that the demon corruption looks similar to darkspawn corruption. It's not outside the realm of possibility that the corruption of the Black City has something to do with blood magic, though that may not necessarily have anything to do with the darkspawn. However, I wonder whether or not the relationship between the archdemon and the darkspawn (and also ghouls) is similar to blood magic domination.

I also wonder whether or not the Joining was derived from something similar to blood magic. I'm not really clear on the actual nature of blood magic, besides that it takes sacrificing blood to use and allows you to use mind control and/or summon demons. The Tevinters originally thought of blood magic as a way to enhance the already existing schools before realizing there were things you could only do with blood magic, but it seems in the game it's mostly referred to in a general "blood magic is bad" sort of way. I only say this because blood magic seems to have to do with forming bonds (psychic, dominant or otherwise) and it doesn't seem that other types of magic cause this kind of thing. Speculation, speculation..

Modifié par eschilde, 03 janvier 2010 - 06:57 .

[Hyper Cutter]

What makes the Broodmother bit especially horrifying is that if you hang about in the first room of the Anvil, Branka will eventually mention how she allowed the women of her house to be made into Broodmothers for the specific purpose of making Darkspawn to use as guinea pigs in her effort to beat the Anvil's traps...

[thegreateski]

bunnie.riane wrote...
I never finished with my dwarf noble - how is it different?

Bhelen pwns the Darkspawn with the dwarfs regular army and retakes several thaigs on his own.

then (if you asked for it as your "boon" from Alistair/Anora) the human army comes down there and helps the Dwarfs push the Darkspawn all the way to the Dead trenches.

[Sarethus]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

What makes the Broodmother bit especially horrifying is that if you hang about in the first room of the Anvil, Branka will eventually mention how she allowed the women of her house to be made into Broodmothers for the specific purpose of making Darkspawn to use as guinea pigs in her effort to beat the Anvil's traps...

Let me put it this way, as soon as I heard her say it basically tripled the resolve I had after listening to Hespith to kill Branka at the first oppertunity. 

[steelfire_dragon]

that was aweful, but it was just has creepy as the nightmare on elm street DA:O remix found in alienage

[thegreateski]

steelfire_dragon wrote...

that was aweful, but it was just has creepy as the nightmare on elm street DA:O remix found in alienage

heh . . . that place was pretty creepy as well.

Up until Whatshisface was killed by a demon with a high voice and a pitchfork.



Sorta killed the creepy factor.

Modifié par thegreateski, 05 janvier 2010 - 05:19 .

[stillnotking]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

What makes the Broodmother bit especially horrifying is that if you hang about in the first room of the Anvil, Branka will eventually mention how she allowed the women of her house to be made into Broodmothers for the specific purpose of making Darkspawn to use as guinea pigs in her effort to beat the Anvil's traps...

The achievement for siding with Branka shouldn't be called "Pragmatist".  It should be called "Scumbag Who Does Not Deserve to Breathe Our Air".  Then the game should uninstall itself and replace your desktop background with a giant middle finger.

Modifié par stillnotking, 05 janvier 2010 - 05:35 .

[ComTrav]

Particularly effective, IMO, because you hear it in a long, mostly empty tunnel, after fighting wave after wave of darkspawn in the Deep Roads.



And then there's the Shrine of the Legion, the quiet monument to dwarfenkind's constant, Churchillian resistance against the horror.



Really, this is the part of the game where the dark spawn come off as really, really bad and evil, something that needs to be destroyed, and not just a force of nature.



I do think it's completely intentional that the decision about the Anvil is right after this..."Man, those Darkspawn are terrible! Maybe it WOULD be a good idea to have legions of tireless, indestructible warriors to fight them..."

[Fates end]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

What makes the Broodmother bit especially horrifying is that if you hang about in the first room of the Anvil, Branka will eventually mention how she allowed the women of her house to be made into Broodmothers for the specific purpose of making Darkspawn to use as guinea pigs in her effort to beat the Anvil's traps...

Dear goodness, that woman angered me.  Don't think I'll ever bother getting the achievement for her, no way am I letting that monster live after what she did to her people.

[Sarethus]

ComTrav wrote...

Particularly effective, IMO, because you hear it in a long, mostly empty tunnel, after fighting wave after wave of darkspawn in the Deep Roads.

And then there's the Shrine of the Legion, the quiet monument to dwarfenkind's constant, Churchillian resistance against the horror.

Really, this is the part of the game where the dark spawn come off as really, really bad and evil, something that needs to be destroyed, and not just a force of nature.

I do think it's completely intentional that the decision about the Anvil is right after this..."Man, those Darkspawn are terrible! Maybe it WOULD be a good idea to have legions of tireless, indestructible warriors to fight them..."

Well the thing is the person who left her house behind to make darkspawn babies is the one suggesting to keep/use the anvil. My first playthrough, well lets just say I called that save game Hespith's revenge. 

[errant_knight]

Damar Stiehl wrote...

"Come, come, bonny Lynne; tell us, tell us where you’ve been
Were you up, were you down
Chasing rabbits ‘round the town
Come, come, bonny Lynne; tell us, tell us where you’ve been
Come, come, bonny Lynne; we’ve a bed to put you in
It is soft, it is warm
It will shelter from the storm
Come, come, bonny Lynne; we’ve a bed to put you in
Dear, dear bonny Lynne sleeps the peaceful crib within
A mossy stone, a finger bone
No one knows but Lynne alone
Dear, dear bonny Lynne sleeps the peaceful crib within"

Heh, that totally creeped me out. My whole party just stood there looking at the kid for about two minutes before going over to talk to him.

[Nuclear_Pony]

Yep, that one still freaks me out. It's tragic and freaky at the same time. Both poems are pretty disturbing. Makes you wanna start a crusade to whipe all of them out on the face of the world. The way Branka tried to justify her actions in her ranting to get sympathy is absolutely sickening

Modifié par Nuclear_Pony, 05 janvier 2010 - 08:52 .

[_- Songlian -]

Both were awesome moments in the game. I found the "bonny Lynne" poem more scary because creepy kids really get to me, but Hespith's had the bigger impact. It is brilliant in every aspect: tragic verses, unique way of reciting, shocking conclusion.

[SusanStoHelit]

What can any sane person do but agree. It's one of the most utterly chilling segments I've found in a game - or in anything - for years. I just went through there last night for the second time - and it was creepier and more disturbing than the first time. I wasn't jumping out of my skin or anything, but knowing what's up ahead made the chant more disturbing rather than less.



Branka must not live, ever! The creation of the golems is evil in any case, especially when you know that no-one will ever rely on volunteers only. If they don't get enough, someone will always resort to other means - criminals, traitors, enemies, foreigners, casteless, anyone we don't like or value. But Branka is the single most evil character in the game.

[fanman72]

The broodmother buildup was some of the best horror writing I've seen in a video game in a LONG time. The last decent one of similar writing quality (and inferior technology so it isn't as good as this, mind you) was the buildup to Ravel Puzzlewell in Planescape (Taking random people, torturing them, removing their eyes, tongue, and limbs, so they can't see nor communicate)

Modifié par fanman72, 05 janvier 2010 - 10:18 .

[Lord Abrasion]

Serogon wrote...

MEUTRIERE wrote...

Serogon wrote...

Guess1 wrote...

Joshd21 wrote...

Seventh day, she grew as in her mouth they spew.

I don't think any part of it bothered me except for this line.

There's no way that means what it sounds like... in her mouth? They're ****ing darkspawn, do they even know how to do that...? And why would they...? Urgh, I'm just going to stop thinking about this...

And that, my friend, is how babies are made.

In the mouth? Uh, you probably should have paid a bit more attention during Sex Ed while you were at school...

Indeed. That particular line tells how the Darkspawn force the prospective Broodmother to eat bile.

[Herr Uhl]

Lord Abrasion wrote...

Serogon wrote...
In the mouth? Uh, you probably should have paid a bit more attention during Sex Ed while you were at school...

Indeed. That particular line tells how the Darkspawn force the prospective Broodmother to eat bile.

Ah the good ol' days *reminisces*

[Maddyanne]

It started my PC(s) wondering about what happens if you go to the Deep Roads to die and don't die quickly.

Female dwarf/elf/human to Broodmother is a major metamorphosis. What if Grey Warden ghouls don't die from battle and/or the taint? How much could you change, especially if you lose control and start eating your kills? Eep.