343 réponses à ce sujet

[SpamBot2000]

For me, this Grand Debate is mostly about BioWare's recent modus operandi of half-assing every single thing they turn their talents to. That we get to titter (verb courtesy of Ninja Stan) about b00bz is merely a bonus.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 11 novembre 2012 - 04:42 .

[Dominus]

Someone With Mass don't bother. This useless discussion will keep going until they release the DLC...

I cannot forsee a scenario where BioWare chooses to perform a breast reduction on a turian woman due to the fan complaints on their message board. Not when the entire DLC has already been announced and essentially fleshed out. I'm looking at the screenshot, and I'm not really seeing the enormous breasts.

So... that's the end of that, I think.

Modifié par DominusVita, 11 novembre 2012 - 04:43 .

[Raizo]

Maybe I should have been more serious in my first reply to this topic instead of trying to be funny.

It's a bit sad that this is what it has come down to. How much crap did Bioware get for not giving us female aliens in ME1 and ME2. They begrudingly gave us a female Salarian ( the Dalatras) and a female Krogan ( Eve ) but I didn't really care for the fact  that both were covered from head to toe in robes, it reminded me to much of a Burka and not only did the symbolism not sit right with me but it also felt like a cheap cop out on Bioware'sbehalf so that they couldcreate female aliens.

Of course I do feel bad for the character designers at Bioware, how do you make a Salarian, a Krogan and a turian look female without going down the obvious route ( boobs, lipstick, long hair ). There are obvious reasons why we have not seen these female aliens before in abundance in the ME games. We should be thankful that they are giving us female aliens in the first place instead of maoning about what they look like.

xsdob wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

At least I can see the damn images now. The lighting does make it all most like she has boobies, since it doesn't have a continuous curve like male turians but I'll blame that on the lighting for now.

Bioware seems to like making female aliens either bare everything like asari strippers or wrapping themselves up like it's winter; ie Eve and the Dalatrass. Ugh. And why is she dressed like Kasumi? I wanted a battle-hardened female turian, not some ninja in the dark.

Oh well, I'm not buying Omega anyway, Bioware can stuff it.

Yup, she'll never take off those robes at all.



She's gonna wear the robes through the whole game yes sir re bob.

I like what I see here. I am very impressed with the detail of Nyreen's head. To me she looks very different from a male turian at least from the neck up. I see her face and I see a female, I think Bioware havedone enough here.

I've also been looking at some of the pictures of Nyreen on page 9 of this thread that xsdob posted and it is it's not obvious that Nyreen has boobs, for all we know the shape of her chest area is just the result of her wearing armour under cloths ( by the way why is she wearing a crapy knock off of Kasumi's outfit, it does not look right on her at all and it reminds me to much of the burka theme that I saw with the Dalatras and Eve ). Maybe we are making a mole hill out of nothing and maybe it's just lighting. Maybe she would look better wearing traditional armour rarher than clothing.

[Ranger Jack Walker]

LiarasShield wrote...

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...


Well the asari can reproduce with any race or gender it doesn't automaticlly make them a lesbian race it just means they can reproduce with anyone or anything

Let's not kid ourselves. Asari were at least partially designed with lesbians in mind.

Obviously you don't pay attention to the codex or the lore of the asari race do you?

The lore here is irrevelent. Are you seriously going to deny that the Asari were primarily designed to appeal to be titilating?

[zsom]

d-boy15 wrote...
nudity is not oversexualization.

also, it fit well with the characters and theme, that scene is a pure lust not romance.

still, as I say in other thread the bird with boobs is not strange if we already got a lesbian race 

Nudity isn't, but this scene and in particular this character is presented in an exagerated way. She is supposed to be an elite fighter yet has the body of a playboy model... and we get to see it in a softcore porn scene for no reason what so ever.

bluebeam wrote...

Oversexualization is not even the point in this case, zsom & co. Is it that hard to understand?

Actually the OP calls it oversexualization on page two.  If anyone then she should know what the thread is about.

Modifié par zsom, 11 novembre 2012 - 09:15 .

[bajsmongo66]

I dont know if turians lay eggs...if they do..then boobs are pointless , if they dont , boobs are totally justified...

[MegaSovereign]

Turians aren't birds.

[Kanaris]

FYI on the Asari they were not designed to be lesbians yes they are a mono gender race and until they had space flight they would only mate with other Asari. However, Once they joined the galactic community they started take other races as mates both male and female that makes the Asari BI-SEXUAL not lesbian.

[Wulfram]

Kanaris wrote...

FYI on the Asari they were not designed to be lesbians yes they are a mono gender race and until they had space flight they would only mate with other Asari. However, Once they joined the galactic community they started take other races as mates both male and female that makes the Asari BI-SEXUAL not lesbian.

More omni- than bi-

[Kanaris]

Wulfram wrote...

Kanaris wrote...

FYI on the Asari they were not designed to be lesbians yes they are a mono gender race and until they had space flight they would only mate with other Asari. However, Once they joined the galactic community they started take other races as mates both male and female that makes the Asari BI-SEXUAL not lesbian.

More omni- than bi-

Good point when you consider hannar who don't seem to have genders at all

[Nerevar-as]

bajsmongo66 wrote...

I dont know if turians lay eggs...if they do..then boobs are pointless , if they dont , boobs are totally justified...

Platypus lay eggs, and they are mammals.

Nothing so far pointed to turians being mammals, but what annoys me here is that they went for the old trope of adding boobs to a aline male model = alien female. When did ME become pulp? ME1 was closer to BSG, now it looks more and more like SW.

[LinksOcarina]

Nerevar-as wrote...

bajsmongo66 wrote...

I dont know if turians lay eggs...if they do..then boobs are pointless , if they dont , boobs are totally justified...

Platypus lay eggs, and they are mammals.

Nothing so far pointed to turians being mammals, but what annoys me here is that they went for the old trope of adding boobs to a aline male model = alien female. When did ME become pulp? ME1 was closer to BSG, now it looks more and more like SW.

It always was closer to Star Wars. Thats why its a Space Opera. Hell, they even said that Space Operas and Sci-Fi works like Star Trek were influences to the game. 

And I also brushed up on my Mass Effect lore, apparently Turians can get pregnant and don't lay eggs. At all. So yeah...not sure how breasts are lore-breaking. Nor do I still see why people care she has breasts...

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 11 novembre 2012 - 10:30 .

[xsdob]

Nerevar-as wrote...

bajsmongo66 wrote...

I dont know if turians lay eggs...if they do..then boobs are pointless , if they dont , boobs are totally justified...

Platypus lay eggs, and they are mammals.

Nothing so far pointed to turians being mammals, but what annoys me here is that they went for the old trope of adding boobs to a aline male model = alien female. When did ME become pulp? ME1 was closer to BSG, now it looks more and more like SW.

What bird givers birth to live young? I'm seriosly curious about this now. Turians give birth to live young, while all animals can lay eggs, giving live birth is a much less common practice and overwhealmingly, it's done by mammels.

This is like arguing that they shouldn't breath oxygen, we got some bacteria on this planet who breath sulfer, and plants take in carbon-dioxide. Why didn't bioware make more races who had unique atmospheres, I mean look at almost all the planets, they all got different atmospheres but only the oxygen one has life? What's up with that? Why are the volus the only ones who come from a different atmosphere and are the most alien?

Anyway, her may-or-may-not-exist boobs can be explained by the same token that we possess third eyelids, appendix's, pheremon glands, and wisdom teeth.

Evolution made us have these things from a long time ago, and as we evolved we stopped needing them, but they still are present inisde our bodies anyway.

Maybe the same thing is going on here, assuming she even has boobs, maybe they're simply genetic leftovers from before palavan's sun started cooking the planet with radiation.

Modifié par xsdob, 11 novembre 2012 - 10:35 .

[bajsmongo66]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

bajsmongo66 wrote...

I dont know if turians lay eggs...if they do..then boobs are pointless , if they dont , boobs are totally justified...

Platypus lay eggs, and they are mammals.

Nothing so far pointed to turians being mammals, but what annoys me here is that they went for the old trope of adding boobs to a aline male model = alien female. When did ME become pulp? ME1 was closer to BSG, now it looks more and more like SW.

It always was closer to Star Wars. Thats why its a Space Opera. Hell, they even said that Space Operas and Sci-Fi works like Star Trek were influences to the game. 

And I also brushed up on my Mass Effect lore, apparently Turians can get pregnant and don't lay eggs. At all. So yeah...not sure how breasts are lore-breaking. Nor do I still see why people care she has breasts...

Yea i dont get the outcry over the boobs at all..i mean..humans have boobs .. asari have boobs...quarians have boobs...so if turians give birth to live young and doesnt lay eggs..its just logical that they would have breasts...everyone is so eager to yell "sexist" over any aspect of any female design... its pretentious and lame as ****, i love her design , especially the hoodless version

[MoonEcho]

xsdob, are you arguing that it's reasonable to make the viewer infer that a designed trait is vestigial if it doesn't make apparent sense? It would make more sense not to include something if it can't can't be explained any other way, unless you're going to have plot importance given to wisdom teeth and appendices.

The live birth thing again. Easy enough: live birth does not always mean breastfeeding. Lots of viviparous races are not mammalian. That really doesn't lean the likelihood factor of turian boobs one way or the other.

What makes turian boobs a questionable design choice are other turian traits - their protective metal carapace and their mouths, at the very least. Both of those things would make breasts and breastfeeding... difficult to explain. More difficult than it's worth.

You can throw in the fact that they're dino-birdlike if you want something else making boobs improbable. Yes, they aren't literally birds, and yes they're aliens. But try telling me that it wouldn't be a little bizarre if a female salarian were introduced with a thick head of human-style hair because they 'aren't frogs' and 'aliens can be whatever'.

What makes this a disappointing design choice is that this already came up anyway, back when art director Derek Watts made some rather careless remarks (at about 1:10) on female turian design. From appearances, they may not have learned from how poorly those remarks were received.

Modifié par MoonEcho, 12 novembre 2012 - 12:33 .

[BetrayerOfNihil]

bajsmongo66 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...
It always was closer to Star Wars. Thats why its a Space Opera. Hell, they even said that Space Operas and Sci-Fi works like Star Trek were influences to the game. 

And I also brushed up on my Mass Effect lore, apparently Turians can get pregnant and don't lay eggs. At all. So yeah...not sure how breasts are lore-breaking. Nor do I still see why people care she has breasts...

Yea i dont get the outcry over the boobs at all..i mean..humans have boobs .. asari have boobs...quarians have boobs...so if turians give birth to live young and doesnt lay eggs..its just logical that they would have breasts...everyone is so eager to yell "sexist" over any aspect of any female design... its pretentious and lame as ****, i love her design , especially the hoodless version

Well then, considering how many posts have been made by strong opponents like MoonEcho here, in great detail on why it's being questioned, you must be blind as **** to not see it. That or you simply refuse to acknowledge anything we say despite numerous explanations, always falling back to crap like "it's aliens, anything can happen" or "BioWare can **** with their Universe however they want."

Turians have big gaps around their cheeks, so they couldn't suckle. That would take it down to vestigial mammaries at 'best,' which doesn't make sense considering Turian evolution. I highly doubt that they would have breasts that grow-in upon maturity, because that would seperate the protective plates on their bodies, exposing them to the radiation that the plates keep them safe from. The soft tissue of the nipples would be bad enough. Garrus, on Grunt's Loyalty Mission when Wrex/Wreve says that Grunt is becoming an adult, says something along the lines of "So this is Krogan adolescence? Can't we just take him to Omega and buy him a few dances?" He knows fully what puberty is, so I highly doubt Turian females are for some reason born with fully-plated breasts. I'm just guessing that 'born with breasts' argument is what you guys would cook up in response to me. All you got left are the "they're aliens" and "it's the developer's story" cop outs.

[Chameleonbot]

For God's sake...
Turians are NOT Avians! ...OR Reptiles...
They were INSPIRED by Avians/Reptiles during their design/conceptualization phase.

They're TURIANS... Made up ALIENS that DON'T EXIST, if they have breasts and Bioware see's them fit, then they have breasts.
Who's to say they are jiggly/soft with nipples like Humans/Asari/Quarians? Personally I think they are just mounds in the carapace/chest that are of the same tough/rough skin that Turian have allover their bodies.

I can't believe so many "fans" have gotten their panties in a knot over an alien species having boobs just because of their personal viewpoint of them.

[LinksOcarina]

BetrayerOfNihil wrote...

bajsmongo66 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...
It always was closer to Star Wars. Thats why its a Space Opera. Hell, they even said that Space Operas and Sci-Fi works like Star Trek were influences to the game. 

And I also brushed up on my Mass Effect lore, apparently Turians can get pregnant and don't lay eggs. At all. So yeah...not sure how breasts are lore-breaking. Nor do I still see why people care she has breasts...

Yea i dont get the outcry over the boobs at all..i mean..humans have boobs .. asari have boobs...quarians have boobs...so if turians give birth to live young and doesnt lay eggs..its just logical that they would have breasts...everyone is so eager to yell "sexist" over any aspect of any female design... its pretentious and lame as ****, i love her design , especially the hoodless version

Well then, considering how many posts have been made by strong opponents like MoonEcho here, in great detail on why it's being questioned, you must be blind as **** to not see it. That or you simply refuse to acknowledge anything we say despite numerous explanations, always falling back to crap like "it's aliens, anything can happen" or "BioWare can **** with their Universe however they want."

Turians have big gaps around their cheeks, so they couldn't suckle. That would take it down to vestigial mammaries at 'best,' which doesn't make sense considering Turian evolution. I highly doubt that they would have breasts that grow-in upon maturity, because that would seperate the protective plates on their bodies, exposing them to the radiation that the plates keep them safe from. The soft tissue of the nipples would be bad enough. Garrus, on Grunt's Loyalty Mission when Wrex/Wreve says that Grunt is becoming an adult, says something along the lines of "So this is Krogan adolescence? Can't we just take him to Omega and buy him a few dances?" He knows fully what puberty is, so I highly doubt Turian females are for some reason born with fully-plated breasts. I'm just guessing that 'born with breasts' argument is what you guys would cook up in response to me. All you got left are the "they're aliens" and "it's the developer's story" cop outs.

Actually, my argument is that  a numver of you are caring too much over something wholly irrelevent to the game. I made the example before that it was like me nitpicking the fact that polonium rounds exist which are barred by the United Nations for being unethical. 

Or maybe I just don't get upset over breasts.  But in the end, who cares when it does nothing to detriment the game? If it breaks lore that much for you, I honestly feel sad for your need to be nerdy on here. 

Either that, or its just trying to tack on more hate on BioWare for no reason whatsoever, the cynic in me hopes that what it is, because that is what I expect the fringe of the fanbase to do anyway. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 12 novembre 2012 - 01:20 .

[K_O_513]

You're right. Why in the world does she have hands instead of wings also? Even more so, where is her bill? Why in the world is she wearing clothes? When's the last time you saw a avian creature rocking a hoodie?

[bajsmongo66]

BetrayerOfNihil wrote...

bajsmongo66 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...
It always was closer to Star Wars. Thats why its a Space Opera. Hell, they even said that Space Operas and Sci-Fi works like Star Trek were influences to the game. 

And I also brushed up on my Mass Effect lore, apparently Turians can get pregnant and don't lay eggs. At all. So yeah...not sure how breasts are lore-breaking. Nor do I still see why people care she has breasts...

Yea i dont get the outcry over the boobs at all..i mean..humans have boobs .. asari have boobs...quarians have boobs...so if turians give birth to live young and doesnt lay eggs..its just logical that they would have breasts...everyone is so eager to yell "sexist" over any aspect of any female design... its pretentious and lame as ****, i love her design , especially the hoodless version

Well then, considering how many posts have been made by strong opponents like MoonEcho here, in great detail on why it's being questioned, you must be blind as **** to not see it. That or you simply refuse to acknowledge anything we say despite numerous explanations, always falling back to crap like "it's aliens, anything can happen" or "BioWare can **** with their Universe however they want."

Turians have big gaps around their cheeks, so they couldn't suckle. That would take it down to vestigial mammaries at 'best,' which doesn't make sense considering Turian evolution. I highly doubt that they would have breasts that grow-in upon maturity, because that would seperate the protective plates on their bodies, exposing them to the radiation that the plates keep them safe from. The soft tissue of the nipples would be bad enough. Garrus, on Grunt's Loyalty Mission when Wrex/Wreve says that Grunt is becoming an adult, says something along the lines of "So this is Krogan adolescence? Can't we just take him to Omega and buy him a few dances?" He knows fully what puberty is, so I highly doubt Turian females are for some reason born with fully-plated breasts. I'm just guessing that 'born with breasts' argument is what you guys would cook up in response to me. All you got left are the "they're aliens" and "it's the developer's story" cop outs.

Well whatever facts you think you may have are obviously not accurate since the ****ing female model has boobs... any conclusions you've drawn, logical as they may be , are obviously false so .. too bad for your ****ing fan fiction or whatever you've been gathering info for.. they have breasts , presumably for breastfeeding..cus you know..duh.. and "turians cant suckle" you dont think they can seal their cheeks?? plus their "lips" moves ... and an infant turian probably has less stiff facial plating anyways... its not highly improbable that turian mothers can breastfeed....so stop being all butthurt about it , its not sexualization or anything , its just design to make her look feminine and it does not break lore.. so deal with it or cry more 

[xsdob]

MoonEcho wrote...

xsdob, are you arguing that it's reasonable to make the viewer infer that a designed trait is vestigial if it doesn't make apparent sense? It would make more sense not to include something if it can't can't be explained any other way, unless you're going to have plot importance given to wisdom teeth and appendices.

The live birth thing again. Easy enough: live birth does not always mean breastfeeding. Lots of viviparous races are not mammalian. That really doesn't lean the likelihood factor of turian boobs one way or the other.

What makes turian boobs a questionable design choice are other turian traits - their protective metal carapace and their mouths, at the very least. Both of those things would make breasts and breastfeeding... difficult to explain. More difficult than it's worth.

You can throw in the fact that they're dino-birdlike if you want something else making boobs improbable. Yes, they aren't literally birds, and yes they're aliens. But try telling me that it wouldn't be a little bizarre if a female salarian were introduced with a thick head of human-style hair because they 'aren't frogs' and 'aliens can be whatever'.

What makes this a disappointing design choice is that this already came up anyway, back when art director Derek Watts made some rather careless remarks (at about 1:10) on female turian design. From appearances, they may not have learned from how poorly those remarks were received.

Actually most of that was just venting and expressing my opinion on the subject, not really trying to argue against anything. To me, such an explination would easily suffice, becasue there are many creatures on this planet who, even after millions of years, have redundant and purposless traits or parts to them simply for the fact that screening it out of the genetic code is hard to do, espeically without outside intervention.

Also, I responded to stated that turians weren't mammals, yet they show every sign of being, at least palavanian equivilants, to mammals. What that poster, and many others, seem to be doing is applying our planets laws on what avian life is to a species that is not from our ecosystem. They may appear to be bird like, but that could very well be all they share in terms of similarities to birds. I don't like how, despite the evidence, people insist that they are birds and therefore can't have breast. I don't think they're soley reptile birds through and through, they don't die in cold weather despite not wearing facial protection, so they can't be cold blooded, therefore it reasons that they must at least be warm blooded. Does that means  they should have breast, certainly not, just as it doesn't mean they wouldn't have had it either.

That point is too vauge and can't really be answered, but what the preson I was responding to said, and I quote, "Nothing so far pointed to turians being mammals" when in fact them giving birth to live young does overwhealmingly point to them being mammals, since the overwhealming majority of species from this observable ecosystem who give birth to live young are mammals. This is simply using the same logic people who claim they are avians use, since they're taking our planets rules and applying it to turians, I can as well.

Also, I'm annoyed that the poster completly ignores the many other differences that nyreen has from other turians and just focus's on her could or could not exist boobs. That is just as sexist as what people are claiming bioware is doing, becasue that states that a character must only be judged and appraised as a good character or not simply from whether she is closly related to human female body types or not. The poster ignored the lack of a head fringe, the thinner face, the harder carapace, the different skin tone around the eyes, and the curvature of the mandables and thinner neck, and focused soley on simple whether she was stacked or not.

I find something wrong with that assessment.

[BetrayerOfNihil]

LinksOcarina, you are one of the most egotistical and demeaning pieces of **** I've ever had the displeasure of 'meeting.' I am not doing this just because it's BioWare, I've been a pretty devout fan since playing KotOR in 2006. Feel free, go right ahead and feel 'sad' for me that I care this much about a fictional Universe. Doesn't make a bit of difference to me that some arrogant ****** is feeling 'pity' for somebody. We've all heard that crap before.

And Bajsmongo, I don't even need to try to argue against you saying that a race that depends on their armor-like skin to protect them from intense radiation, can have soft cartilage-like tissue on their lips, cheeks, and mandibles, capable of creating suction for suckling at infancy. I'd be wasting my effort trying to debunk this ****amamy bull**** that you just made up as fast as you could. And "cry more," huh? GET OUT. See, I can reference Internet memes too. You're just the typical scum of the Internet. Nobody would miss you or your garbage that just barely passes as English.

Modifié par BetrayerOfNihil, 12 novembre 2012 - 02:59 .

[Ranger Jack Walker]

xsdob, forget it dude. The sensible explanation is probably too hard to grasp for most of these people.

[LinksOcarina]

BetrayerOfNihil wrote...

LinksOcarina, you are one of the most egotistical and demeaning pieces of **** I've ever had the displeasure of 'meeting.' I am not doing this just because it's BioWare, I've been a pretty devout fan since playing KotOR in 2006. Feel free, go right ahead and feel 'sad' for me that I care this much about a fictional Universe. Doesn't make a bit of difference to me that some arrogant ****** is feeling 'pity' for somebody. We've all heard that crap before.

And Bajsmongo, I don't even need to try to argue against you saying that a race that depends on their armor-like skin to protect them from intense radiation, can have soft cartilage-like tissue on their lips, cheeks, and mandibles, capable of creating suction for suckling at infancy. I'd be wasting my effort trying to debunk this ****amamy bull**** that you just made up as fast as you could. And "cry more," huh? GET OUT. See, I can reference Internet memes too. You're just the typical scum of the Internet. Nobody would miss you or your garbage that just barely passes as English.

If you are getting this wound up over the comments of a message board, apparently it does make a difference to you. 

Honestly, any reason you have is kind of pointless to me. If that makes me arrogant then so be it, I will remain arrogant on the fact that this is a silly debate. 

 Also, don't come off so strong or offensive, other people might get mad at you for calling them pieces of **** and the scum of the internet next time. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 12 novembre 2012 - 03:35 .