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[KirstyLionheart]

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Kirstycakes2 wrote...

Yeah I'm thinking some people here need to get girlfriends. Either that or go watch pron. Most of us prefer tasteful romances, so why should our gameplay be ruined by that pointless vulgarity that the select few are so desperate for.
Remember these games aren't all about the damn romances. I'm more interested in the story and having in-depth conversations.

 

That's a bit judgmental, don't you think? Just because one person assigns priority to in-depth conversation and another person assigns priority to romances doesn't make either more/less superior. Also, story and in-depth conversation are not isolated from romance. All three tend to be combined, and they work rather well to flesh out the game's plot.   

Also, sex scenes (even nude ones) don't exactly = porn. There's a very real difference between the two. Maligning nudity and sexuality with pornography is unfair. We're all adults here and we aren't going to blush or scowl when someone engages in sexual activity in a film or game. I didn't think the Witcher sex scene was all that bad. Maybe some people are a bit more sheltered than I give them credit. Unsure. Pornography is a rather (for lack of a better word) hard association. It can be tame, but also extremely graphic, and often times downright "Oh sh*t, why did I click on that? Augh!" I mean, come on. Mature sex scenes aren't porn. If we start calling nudity and kissing "porn" then what's next? Should we porn-label banana-eating, or how about licking an ice cream cone? 

This coming from the "insane prudish" American... (<-- that's a reference to another user's post...)

Yes, maybe a little judgmental of me.. but hey, I'm entitled to my own opinion, as is everyone else. But the point is, if these people (who I personally think are sad) want graphic nudity and sex.. should go buy a different game that makes sex and nudity a big part of the game. NOT the DA series, thanks.
As for relating it to porn -- to me, it's as GOOD as. DA: O and DA2 managed to make the romances and love scenes perfectly balananced and tasteful. No graphic nudity or anything of the SORT. If people want sex scenes, as I said, go watch somethat that is dedicated to it -- not an RPG game that is all about combat, tactics, epic storyline and dialogue. It's not necessary.

And RE "insane prudish American", I'm a Prudish Brit with a not so prudish American boyfriend yet he would agree with my statement 100%. Whether I've missed the point or not here, matters not to me. I just thought it was relevant.

[Blight Nug]

Kirstycakes2 wrote...

Yeah I'm thinking some people here need to get girlfriends. Either that or go watch pron. Most of us prefer tasteful romances, so why should our gameplay be ruined by that pointless vulgarity that the select few are so desperate for.
Remember these games aren't all about the damn romances. I'm more interested in the story and having in-depth conversations.

I don't see how having casual romance and graphic sex scence take away anything from the story and gameplay. These content can be made optional. 

There are great movies and stories that involve graphic sex scenes because it is part of the reality that the story is telling. If some game developer wants to present a gritty world that invloves violence and sex then they should present those elements truthfully in the game. 

I don't know anything about the statistics of DA fans, but last I checked, there are still way more male gamers than female gamers. And while most male gamers might not demand there to be graphic sex scenes and casual romance options, I know we won't turn down a game or consider it ruined if the game does have such elements. 

If these elements are not what Bioware has in mind then that's fine. But if Bioware wants to create a brutal and explicit game for "artistic integrity" or "fan request", then you should learn to appreciate what the game has to offer.

Harry Potter isn't a superior novel to Song of Ice and Fire because it is more family friendly.

------------------------
Let me use your logic on a different topic.

Some people here need to get a job in a butchering factory. Either that or go watch horror movies. Most of us prefer tasteful presentation, so why should our gameplay be ruined by that pointless gore that the select few are so desperate for. Remember these games aren't all about the damn blood shed. I'm more interested in the story and having in-depth conversations. 

Or better yet, some people here need to devote all of their free time to doing stuff that benefits humanity and stoping play video games because they aren't satisfied with the reality that they live in.
----------------------

So what if some of us want more graphic sex scenes and romance because we can't get any in real life? Don't we all look for something we don't have in vidogames, movies and novels?
Why can't I desire a game that allows me to become a powerful hero that enjoys casual sexual encounters? 
To say porn is the only option I have for is to say we should look for stories in documentories, we should only look for violence in real wars, we should only look for romance in real life relationships. 

In your other post you called us "sad" just because we seek sexual fullfilment in videogames. Then is it sad to seek adventure in video games instead of actually embarking on dangerious journeys in real life? 

Video games, like many other mediums, can satisfy more than one deisre of the gamer. We find excitment in the adventure, we find purpose in the cause, we find friendship with virtual characters and it makes sense if some of us want sexual fantasies to be part of the package. All of these experiences become more vivid when they are bundled together in an interactive world that we can immerse in. So no, I don't want to just go to porn.

the DA universe already allows me to go to the brothel, and that's great, it paints a realistic picture of a fantasy world. If they want to take the next step and give us explicit sex scenes, then I fully support them.

[Chipaway111]

Can people stop all the generalizing? I don't see why Americans need to cop so much flak because they have the misfortune of Fox news being in their country.

To make my point a little clearer though, casual encounters that just allude to sex, or just a simple kiss can be fun in a variety of ways. Most of the time they're just plain funny and there as a way to lighten situations, I don't think anyone here is asking for a large sum of resources be devoted solely to fornicating with NPC's.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Kirstycakes2 wrote...

Trista Faux Hawke wrote...

Kirstycakes2 wrote...

Yeah I'm thinking some people here need to get girlfriends. Either that or go watch pron. Most of us prefer tasteful romances, so why should our gameplay be ruined by that pointless vulgarity that the select few are so desperate for.
Remember these games aren't all about the damn romances. I'm more interested in the story and having in-depth conversations.

 

That's a bit judgmental, don't you think? Just because one person assigns priority to in-depth conversation and another person assigns priority to romances doesn't make either more/less superior. Also, story and in-depth conversation are not isolated from romance. All three tend to be combined, and they work rather well to flesh out the game's plot.   

Also, sex scenes (even nude ones) don't exactly = porn. There's a very real difference between the two. Maligning nudity and sexuality with pornography is unfair. We're all adults here and we aren't going to blush or scowl when someone engages in sexual activity in a film or game. I didn't think the Witcher sex scene was all that bad. Maybe some people are a bit more sheltered than I give them credit. Unsure. Pornography is a rather (for lack of a better word) hard association. It can be tame, but also extremely graphic, and often times downright "Oh sh*t, why did I click on that? Augh!" I mean, come on. Mature sex scenes aren't porn. If we start calling nudity and kissing "porn" then what's next? Should we porn-label banana-eating, or how about licking an ice cream cone? 

This coming from the "insane prudish" American... (<-- that's a reference to another user's post...)

Yes, maybe a little judgmental of me.. but hey, I'm entitled to my own opinion, as is everyone else. But the point is, if these people (who I personally think are sad) want graphic nudity and sex.. should go buy a different game that makes sex and nudity a big part of the game. NOT the DA series, thanks.
As for relating it to porn -- to me, it's as GOOD as. DA: O and DA2 managed to make the romances and love scenes perfectly balananced and tasteful. No graphic nudity or anything of the SORT. If people want sex scenes, as I said, go watch somethat that is dedicated to it -- not an RPG game that is all about combat, tactics, epic storyline and dialogue. It's not necessary.

And RE "insane prudish American", I'm a Prudish Brit with a not so prudish American boyfriend yet he would agree with my statement 100%. Whether I've missed the point or not here, matters not to me. I just thought it was relevant.

I never said anything about wanting graphic nudity and sex. I'm fine with what I suggested when I started this thread being handled tastefully, I just want to be able to play a rake or a tart if I so choose, and it has nothing to do with wanting vulgarity in the game or cheap titillation. I'm happily married and don't need video games to excite me, thank you very much. I'm not some 14-year-old boy getting all randy playing sex mini-games in God of War!

Modifié par The Teryn of Whatever, 14 novembre 2012 - 06:55 .

[legbamel]

Chipaway111 wrote...
Can people stop all the generalizing? I don't see why Americans need to cop so much flak because they have the misfortune of Fox news being in their country.

To make my point a little clearer though, casual encounters that just allude to sex, or just a simple kiss can be fun in a variety of ways. Most of the time they're just plain funny and there as a way to lighten situations, I don't think anyone here is asking for a large sum of resources be devoted solely to fornicating with NPC's.

QFT
I don't recall seeing anyone ask for "graphic" anything.  Personally, I'm okay with the fade-to-black as BioWare has yet to create a convincing nude elbow in the ME or DA series.  But I'm not opposed to a well-done love scene.

I don't necessarily equate casual, romantic encounters with sex, either.  A romp in the hay with a stranger is one thing, a series of converstaions with, say, a quest giver that culminates in an evening out together is something wholly different.  Of course, I'm not the OP, either.

[GodWood]

Kirstycakes2 wrote...
Yes, maybe a little judgmental of me.. but hey, I'm entitled to my own opinion, as is everyone else. But the point is, if these people (who I personally think are sad) want graphic nudity and sex.. should go buy a different game that makes sex and nudity a big part of the game.

Sex and nudity need not be a big part of the game of the game for them to be included. DA:O had both.

However that's not even what this thread was requesting. The OP asked for the option to have "casual-romances" with non-companion NPCs. This is a perfectly reasonable request as these can be used to offer more roleplaying possiblities. E.g) The player may wish to play a womanizer, or perhaps have their character fall for only one of these non-companion NPCs.

Finally (in regards to sex and nudity), I'm never going to understand the buttf*ck, crazy, puritan morality where guts, gore, blood and decapitation are all fine and dandy but the sight of a dick or some ****** is absolutely abhorrent.

What the **** is wrong with you people?

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

^ Becuase we can't play it in front of others!
If your mom, dad, sister, wife, etc. enter when those scenes are on your screen it makes a great uneasiness and faceplam! .. And that situation that they may enter exactly at the moment when those nude scenes happen in the game makess you stressful all the time.

So I prefer not to have these nude scenes in my video games.

[Yuqi]

Archyyy wrote...
Snip*

This is unfortunate for you and I'm sorry your government is retardedly prudish and controlling but its only restrictive to a small part of the players. I dont like getting an inferior product due to retarded censorship. Also that means that you either live in germany or australia and in both cases I'm sure there are means to buy or order the game from abroad. Possession isnt illegal as far as I know. Even if it is you shouldnt be afraid of breaking a bad law. If its entirely impossible for you to buy a banned game im sure theres a certain way that your government has no control over. Its acceptable in that situation.

Actually, the proposal: to allow  18+ video-games in Australia, was finally accepted by the federal goverment.

Han Shot First wrote...

TK514 wrote...

I can agree with this. The fact that my smuggler in TOR tried to sleep with every woman he met, regardless of species, and the reactions, successful or not, were part of what made him fun to play.

Speaking of rejections, if casual romances were included in the game there should be rejections as well. Not every attempt should end in success. Seeing the PC get slapped after an attempt would also be hilarious. 

Loose PC's  should also get S.T.D's. But seriously, Dragon-age is not an otome game.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Frakly I don't see the appeal of "guts and gore" either. Just pointelss violence for violence sake.

That said, since I care not for romances, I also care not for sex scenes. A simple fade to black would be more then enough.
I'd rather time and money be spent on actually important things that will last more than 2 seconds

[DarthLaxian]

Archyyy wrote...
Secondly, the country I live in doesn't provide an R-rating for videogames. Anything that doesn't qualify for MA is simply refused classification and not sold here. So if being "prudish" means I'll actually get to play Dragon Age III, then Bioware should be as prudish as necessary.

what?

well i live in germany and we do have R-Rating for Video-Games (it is just called differently. they call it: not for people under 18 and sometimes there is the added "bonus" of it not being sold "on the table" meaning, if you want to buy in a store, you have to ask the people there if they have the game in storage, because they will not place it on the shelves for everyone to see and buy, because children (and teenagers) could see it which those people consider bad (note: those games are "hidden" because of gore, sex (if it is not hardcore content!) is normally allowed - not for people at 15 and below, but for people 16 and above))

well just had to say that...because the german authorities might try to restrict games that involve blood and killing (which seems fine to sell in USA, without all that much restriction) but they are not as strict (prudish i might say!) when it comes to nudity and even sex (which the US seem to have a problem with, also they have the largest sex-industry on the entire planet and more sex scandals then germany ever had!)

on a side note: we have the strictest youth-protection laws (that's what they call the laws to keep violent material, alcohol (at least strong stuff) etc. out of the hands of children and teenagers) in all of europe (which is a pity, because it shows that the german law makers do not trust their own people (same with restricting ownership of firearms as extremely as they do)) but they are not as bad as some people make them out to be....with one exception:

censorship (!) - which our constitution outlaws by the way (also no one cares it seems) - of people 18 and above (that are considered adults) by forcing companies to sell games they had to cut content from (say extrem violence, like the airport mission in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3) and also - sometimes - forcing those companies to prohibit activating imported games...i am "proud" to say, that i will not bow down to this (meaning i will use every trick in the book if i have to, to play games as they are meant to...i would go to court if someone accused me of violating law, because the law itself violates the constitution in the worst possible way IMHO

so...i will stop my rant here, otherwise i will be forced to go "enrage" because i just HATE those laws!

greetings LAX

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

I think if nothing else, we should at least have the opportunity to have one multiple-partner* encounter like we could with Isabela and Zevran (and possibly Leliana as well) in DA:O and with Isabela and Zev in DA II. The actual action happened off-screen it was pretty much there for laughs. It's a tradition I think Team Dragon Age should totally carry on into future DA games!

* relax oh prudish ones, it's just a link to a humourous song, not pornographic content. Unbunch thy panties, forthwith!

Modifié par The Teryn of Whatever, 19 novembre 2012 - 07:48 .

[brushyourteeth]

I really thought this thread was going to be about holding hands, or the random obligatory *I accidentally fell on top of you* moment --- not boning complete strangers!

I am disappoint.

[cindercatz]

This actually played into both my basic characterization and my full character arcs in DA:O.

My city elf was the more experienced cousin who was pretty worried about marrying.. then after what happened never let go of her wedding ring. And then she had to work out her victim issues and her sexual attitude at various points throughout the game, ended up falling in love, getting politically ambitious and committing to this whole future I could see through her eyes. Then it all came crashing down and she settled into a cold, politically calculated future sans romance. Sexuality played a huge part in her character arc.

My human noble was sexually self entitled, and his first fling's death in the origin led to a crisis of faith and a deep bond with Wynne as his sort of spiritual advisor. He fell for the dangerous (by his Andrastian noble view) Morrigan at first, then as he settled into responsibility, intent on reclaiming his lands, he became more enamored of Leliana. He increasingly set aside his free but selfish attitude and became more serious and ambitious. He even negotiated a pleasant but entirely political marriage and Leliana's role as concubine as he became King Consort. And he did that because he couldn't see the irresponsible Alistair on the throne. He grew into leadership over the course of the blight, but all the while retained his close relationship with Morrigan, and with Witch Hunt he used his ring to seek her out not to join her, but to lend his support and to see his son (whose absense he understood). His sexual attitude evolved and reflected his maturity as his story progressed.

My human mage sought primarily strength and independence, and generally rejected all the prescribed systems of belief and any destiny others would prescribe for him, until he fell in love with Morrigan, and then devoted the rest of his life to supporting her and helping her along the transition to a more compassionate future together. He never even thought of straying and was totally devoted, with the relationship strengthening more and more since he first met her in the woods.

All my characters saw and interracted with the world differently, and in every case, their sexual attitude was part of their character and developement throughout the game. In DA2, these more casual oppurtunities (and their decidedly serious consequences) weren't available unless you just wanted to get a comedy fix at the brothel, so my Hawkes (like most other characters in the game) aren't nearly so well defined and don't have that entire dimension to their personalities or their developement. So I think we should definitely see these kinds of situations (with consequences) return. Definitely.

Nudity is a seperate issue. I support nudity as a rule if a scene exists that would benefit from it, but even if there's only the choice and a walk-off with no scene at all, these situational choices are still important to the kinds of characters I could create in the Wardens. Hawke felt a lot more shallow to me, for the lack of context and depth that DA:O granted, this included. Just that the oppurtunity to make these choices wasn't there. So regardless of whether there's a scene at all, I'd like these choices back.

[cindercatz]

This is kind of off topic, but it struck me as something worth saying.

Legatus Arianus wrote...

^ Becuase we can't play it in front of others!
If your mom, dad, sister, wife, etc. enter when those scenes are on your screen it makes a great uneasiness and faceplam! .. And that situation that they may enter exactly at the moment when those nude scenes happen in the game makess you stressful all the time.

So I prefer not to have these nude scenes in my video games.

 I'm exactly the opposite. I get much more nervous if I'm playing a romance in a game like DA2 or ME2 or DA:O, because every time my family or friends see that, they either kind of **** their eyes or stare blankly, maybe ask me what's going on, why they have underwear on, and then I have to try to answer why they're wearing underwear (DA) or rolling around in their clothes (ME2, some DA2), then it's "Oh they still make those for kids, huh?" "That's silly." or "Psh, they still won't let games grow up, huh?" and a disinterested glaze.

However, I'm perfectly comfortable with nudity. If it's a full on proper romance scene like Heavy Rain, they stop and watch, and the comments are more "Games are really advance now!" or just "That's pretty hot." ...which is something every love scene ever should be one way or another, btw. These are the games they're more likely to play and get into themselves, too. Half-step avoidance stuff is like a flag that says something's not serious, uncomfortable. People's personal comfort level with nudity (or censorship, odd stuff like the underwear scenes) comes down to how you were raised and your social climate. (which is part of how good strong dramatic scenes help change harmful social biases and relieve dysfunctional sexual attitudes in society, through positive exposure to quality art)

Personally, this is why I support optional nudity in games. If you or your house company is uncomfortable with nudity, then you can make that choice not to see it or have observers see it, and that becomes part of your personal experience as a choice you made. For those of us that are uncomfortable with censorship and restrictive influences, like me, we don't have to suffer that influence on our entertainment, and we can feel free of it and get an unfettered experience, and that's our choice. That's how it should be if these scenes 'of an adult nature' are going to be in a game.



btw, This is just a general post. I'm not looking to go back and forth with people about this. I had enough of that earlier this week.
edit: here's for out of context word censor, lol

Modifié par cindercatz, 20 novembre 2012 - 04:34 .

[littlewisp]

You know what I want?  Awkwardness.

"Yeah, I'm sure that's the first time that's ever happened."

Let there be unavoidable silences and an acknowledgement that it's not always good!  (maybe tied in to persuasion?  HA)  There's some character development for ya!  S/he is the savior of the world, but can't bonk for crackers.  Or would that make people angry?  Whatever, the awkward/gritty scenes Joe Abercrombie puts into his books are fantastically horrific in that oh-right-real-life-isn't-always-glory sort of way.  I them.

[cindercatz]

littlewisp wrote...

You know what I want?  Awkwardness.

"Yeah, I'm sure that's the first time that's ever happened."

Let there be unavoidable silences and an acknowledgement that it's not always good!  (maybe tied in to persuasion?  HA)  There's some character development for ya!  S/he is the savior of the world, but can't bonk for crackers.  Or would that make people angry?  Whatever, the awkward/gritty scenes Joe Abercrombie puts into his books are fantastically horrific in that oh-right-real-life-isn't-always-glory sort of way.  I them.

I think that would be hilarious.
..I also don't think they'd do it because it ties gameplay to sexual performance..

I don't think it would work for the main romances because those can kind of be your primary personal arc in some cases, but I think it'd be cool to have follow-up dialogue exchanges like that for small scenes/casual situation choice-consequence lol Your choice is to go bark up the wrong tree?  Ok.. but your ego takes a hit.  And here's the suffering spouse to chase you out the window.

[kathic]

I am more concerned when making a decision with regard to how Bioware wants to treat sex. Either show something or be clever with camera angles. Using underwear is just distasteful. Whatever you do commit to it. If you do not want to go full nudity then be smart about not doing so.

[Lord Issa]

I actually had a cunning idea about romance scenes, although it might be a little weird for some. How about simply showing the scene through a screen, so all we can see are the shadows of the characters? It would be more tasteful than full-on nudity, more immersive/realistic than underwear and probably a lot easier to animate realistically without making the movements jerky and unnatural.

[Battlebloodmage]

Lord Issa wrote...

I actually had a cunning idea about romance scenes, although it might be a little weird for some. How about simply showing the scene through a screen, so all we can see are the shadows of the characters? It would be more tasteful than full-on nudity, more immersive/realistic than underwear and probably a lot easier to animate realistically without making the movements jerky and unnatural.

I like Liara. They don't show any underwear on her, but there aren't a lot of nudity shown. I find love scene to be very romantic. I don't need to get off on pixelate, but at the same time, I love the love scene for the story reason. It's like the climax of the romance subplot. They could die at any moment, and it's they're embracing for one last time. 

[Jonata]

I've recently done a "playboy walkthrough" in DA:O and it was funny as hell. With the right choices and enough coercion skills you can:

• Get a kiss from Bella and from the girl looking for her brother in Redcliffe.
• Bed the Desire Demon.
• Seduce (and subsequently have sex with) a Dalish elf.
• Have casual sex with Zevran.
• Have sex with Isabela, Zevran and Leliana at the same time.
• Have romance-driven sex with Leliana.
• Have sex with Morrigan to perform the Dark Ritual.
• Become king marrying (and probably bedding) Loghain's own daughter, Queen Anora.

So, there are 4 human girls, 2 elves and 1 demon that you can have (mostly casual) sex with, plus the bonus kisses in Redcliffe, all in one walkthrough. In DA:O you could basically play as the most promiscuos living being in Thedas.

Coul a Playboy Inquisitor challenge my Playboy Warden record? 

Modifié par Jonata, 20 novembre 2012 - 10:46 .

[RetroActiv]

I am definitely in support of this. No real down side i can see and it really frees the writers somewhat from being bound to a same romance format we've seen thus far e.g. mandatory gay/bisexual companion characters and mandatory companion romances in general for that matter.

[Nazomi]

As long as it doesn't involve more resorting to something as sleazy as prostitution

[Knight of Dane]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Oh gawd what will these forums become a year from now?

Nothing they aren't already, just take a skip back at some of the older forums.

[Renmiri1]

I personally don't like the casual stuff because it can get sexist and objectifying to women very easily. But as long as the casual hook ups don't get a collector's card a la Witcher then I can just ignore them and play the game the way i like it.

[RetroActiv]

Naturally casual encounters would not be limited to women so that's not a realistic concern imo. As you say you could simply ignore them and leave them to those who are interested.