68 réponses à ce sujet

[Fredward]

Maaaaaan am I tempted to link to a adult roleplaying how-to.

Anyway, I don't think it's Bioware's job to cater to a restricted imagination. My Hawke was sarcastic/witty ALL the time, she used levity to deal with life. Only very rarely did she show her soft/hurt side. It didn't matter to me how she said it it matter that the option was there FOR her to say it. Bioware provides the tools and its your mind's job to fill in the nuances. Now I can understand an argument that says we "want to fill all the blanks in ourself" but since that is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN the need to adapt becomes kinda necessary. It is completelty possible to role play a character that's "limited" by voice restrictions, the need to control EVERY aspect of the character just needs to be relaxed a smidge. And to be fair total control was never possible even with a unvoiced protag, you were still limited to the options given.

Modifié par Foopydoopydoo, 09 novembre 2012 - 03:48 .

[fchopin]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...
I don't think it's Bioware's job to cater to a restricted imagination.

You are wrong, the tone icons are for restricted minds who only use restricted imagination and not for people who use vast amounts of imagination.


Icons limit imagination.

Modifié par fchopin, 09 novembre 2012 - 03:54 .

[Fredward]

fchopin wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...
I don't think it's Bioware's job to cater to a restricted imagination.

You are wrong, the tone icons are for restricted minds who only use restricted imagination and not for people who use vast amounts of imagination.

Yeah you might think that but no. It's easy to create in a void, where you can do and say whatever you want, and heck SAY it however you want, it's much more difficult to create within a partial framework where some things are already set in stone. This seems to be an issue for some.

[TheJediSaint]

fchopin wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...
I don't think it's Bioware's job to cater to a restricted imagination.

You are wrong, the tone icons are for restricted minds who only use restricted imagination and not for people who use vast amounts of imagination.

*sniff*  Something smells of elitism.   Just because people are fine with voiced dialogue and conversation icons does not mean they are any less imaginative than those who aren't.

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 09 novembre 2012 - 03:56 .

[Iosev]

I personally don't have a problem adapting to various types of protagonists. Regardless of whether I'm playing a game like Skyrim, The Witcher, or Dragon Age, I always feel like I'm role-playing. For example, even though Geralt is a fully-voiced and largely pre-determined character, I can still put myself into his shoes, experience the story from his perspective, and overall feel like I am him while I am playing the game.

[fchopin]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Yeah you might think that but no. It's easy to create in a void, where you can do and say whatever you want, and heck SAY it however you want, it's much more difficult to create within a partial framework where some things are already set in stone. This seems to be an issue for some.

I found DAO dialogue much harder to pick what i would say as i had a pick of 3 or 5 options so i had to think really hard on the dialogue i picked.
 
In DA2 i did not really think much before deciding as i never knew what my character would say so it is the opposite of what you said.Same as the combat in DAO, i am playing a new game in DAO and combat is at least 5 times harder.

[fchopin]

TheJediSaint wrote...

*sniff*  Something smells of elitism.   Just because people are fine with voiced dialogue and conversation icons does not mean they are any less imaginative than those who aren't.

Think whatever you like but i have been playing RPG’s for years with voice PC’s so you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Fredward]

fchopin wrote...
I found DAO dialogue much harder to pick what i would say as i had a pick of 3 or 5 options so i had to think really hard on the dialogue i picked.
 
In DA2 i did not really think much before deciding as i never knew what my character would say so it is the opposite of what you said.Same as the combat in DAO, i am playing a new game in DAO and combat is at least 5 times harder.

Thinking hard on which pre-determined option to chose ≠ imagination.

Combat is totally irrelevant to this topic.

[JWvonGoethe]

Not my type of thing but... What if they end up using kinect voice commands as an optional substitute for the voiced PC? That could explain why they have been coy about which platforms the game will be released on...

[fchopin]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Thinking hard on which pre-determined option to chose ≠ imagination.

No, thinking hard on what option to choose and what will really happen by the choice you pick is hard and requires imagination.
 
Picking an option with a heart icon no thinking or imagination is required, an instant lets get laid option with out thinking.

[Fredward]

fchopin wrote...
No, thinking hard on what option to choose and what will really happen by the choice you pick is hard and requires imagination.

You mean, by your previous logic, exactly how DA2 works?

I'm getting off this ride before it regresses further. Toodle pip.

[fchopin]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

fchopin wrote...
No, thinking hard on what option to choose and what will really happen by the choice you pick is hard and requires imagination.

You mean, by your previous logic, exactly how DA2 works?

I'm getting off this ride before it regresses further. Toodle pip.

You are welcome.

[slimgrin]

fchopin wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...
I don't think it's Bioware's job to cater to a restricted imagination.

You are wrong, the tone icons are for restricted minds who only use restricted imagination and not for people who use vast amounts of imagination.


Icons limit imagination.

I'm with fchopin on this one. Bioware has an annoying habit of undermining roleplay and choice with gameplay mechanics.

[Felya87]

I had the same problem with DA2. I was already lucky that, not being English my language, I didn't fell all that difference in voice acting...but sometimes I thinked the game have some sort of bug, because the voice was really too much different with some answers.

expecially the "agressive" ones.

I feared Hawke was bipolar.

But even whorse than the difference in voice, where terrible the icons: make me feel analphabet.

[FINE HERE]

Sometimes, I wouldn't even read the paraphrase because I knew it would be something completely different coming out of Hawke's mouth than what I expected, so only the tone would matter then.

And try replaying the prologue/opening scene with Hawke using a different tone for each prompt. It sounds awkward.

[budzai]

OP is right 101%

[Fast Jimmy]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

fchopin wrote...
No, thinking hard on what option to choose and what will really happen by the choice you pick is hard and requires imagination.

You mean, by your previous logic, exactly how DA2 works? 

I'm getting off this ride before it regresses further. Toodle pip. 

For what it is worth, I believe they were saying trying to imagine how close (or how far off) the paraphrase would be to the actual words spoken required imagination (in a bad way). Especially when the response could be different than you imagined and your character says something totally unexpected. 



All of this aside, Gaider has confirmed we will still have the dialogue wheel, voiced protagonist, paraphrases and icons for DA ]|[, but that they are working on new ways to prevent confusion with what would actually be said (but he has come out and said an option to show the full-text response before the option is picked is not on the table). I'm curious to see what they have up their sleeves to fix the issue the OP described, as I was often in the same boat. 

[bleetman]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

fchopin wrote...
No, thinking hard on what option to choose and what will really happen by the choice you pick is hard and requires imagination.

You mean, by your previous logic, exactly how DA2 works?

I'm assuming he's referring to options being obviously tagged with outcomes and differentiated on the wheel as opposed to just being another reply in a list. It's something Mass Effect and The Old Republic do in annoying abundance: you can generally predict the outcome of a situation just by looking at how the available options are positioned and/or morally flagged. So if I want to avoid a fight, say, I pick the option that obviously lets me do that rather than thinking what might be appropriate to say under the circumstances.

Whether that applied to Dragon Age 2, I don't really remember. It's been a while since I played it.

Modifié par bleetman, 09 novembre 2012 - 05:03 .

[ScarMK]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

fchopin wrote...
No, thinking hard on what option to choose and what will really happen by the choice you pick is hard and requires imagination.

You mean, by your previous logic, exactly how DA2 works? 

I'm getting off this ride before it regresses further. Toodle pip. 

For what it is worth, I believe they were saying trying to imagine how close (or how far off) the paraphrase would be to the actual words spoken required imagination (in a bad way). Especially when the response could be different than you imagined and your character says something totally unexpected. 



All of this aside, Gaider has confirmed we will still have the dialogue wheel, voiced protagonist, paraphrases and icons for DA ]|[, but that they are working on new ways to prevent confusion with what would actually be said (but he has come out and said an option to show the full-text response before the option is picked is not on the table). I'm curious to see what they have up their sleeves to fix the issue the OP described, as I was often in the same boat. 

Well, that just killed a fair bit of my euthusiasm.

[Medhia Nox]

I'm sorry - but watching a television show doesn't require you to "use your imagination".

Anything dictated to you by another artist requires no imagination.

That's why a book does require some - for while the best descriptions often paint a great scene - there's a lot of personalized imagination going into reading a book. It's more interactive than a movie or tv show will ever be.

Games are in a unique position to be far more interactive - and yet, we seem to see a trending toward more dictation of our characters.

What bothers me more is that the PC doesn't say exactly what is printed in the text - again, no imagination is involved when listening to a character talk - unless you're superimposing your own imagination over what's being told to you.

I support a silent protagonist - far more information can be delivered by text. Even the NPCs could achieve more without voices - but I do enjoy the feature to some extent - and NPCs are third party perspective characters - I should have to rely on their "tone" to try to guess what they're saying.

Tonal indicators aren't bad - they're just primitive. They're good in the sense that your PC shouldn't be a guessing game - if you're playing a calm peacemaker - you shouldn't have to guess which choice is the calm, peacemaker choice.

I'd prefer "Inner Voice" indicators - perhaps options to pick what your PC is thinking - and have those influence how he says things.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 09 novembre 2012 - 05:32 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Well, that just killed a fair bit of my euthusiasm.

Glad to be of service!

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 09 novembre 2012 - 05:30 .

[Felya87]

All of this aside, Gaider has confirmed we will still have the dialogue wheel, voiced protagonist, paraphrases and icons for DA ]|[, but that they are working on new ways to prevent confusion with what would actually be said (but he has come out and said an option to show the full-text response before the option is picked is not on the table). I'm curious to see what they have up their sleeves to fix the issue the OP described, as I was often in the same boat. 

please! not the icons again! those where the whorse part of DA2, even whorse than the repetitive dungeons!!!

I was already depressed for DA3 with the Wheel of Torture, the voiced character, the lack of playable races, the lack of playable origins...

ok, I'll stop. but, really, when we will have some good news? I still have to find something really appealing in the game...

I'm really,really a sad panda...

Modifié par Felya87, 09 novembre 2012 - 05:37 .

[Fast Jimmy]

I'd prefer "Inner Voice" indicators - perhaps options to pick what your PC is thinking - and have those influence how he says things.

It I remember correctly, this was a little how Wing Commander... IV?... did it.

That was a game that was ahead of its time. If it involved anything other than weak space fighter-plane combat, people would probably talk about it more than they do.

[Arppis]

I'm worried that I won't be able to roleplay either.

...well ok if they bring back the "sarcastic lines", I'm happy.