40 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarielle]

Alright. Noob is back asking about another build.

Reading these threads on the romance options I realize I never get to do them (my character I always play with only ever hit it off with Bishop from NWN2, if that tells you anything about her personality ) so I've decided to make a character who is not a self-interested, amoral ass and actually experience this part of the game.

So. In non RPG games I've also enjoyed paladin-esque characters (decent heals/buffs and reasonably tankish) so I thought that the comination in the title could be fun.

BUT.

I still don't really have a feel for what armor type I should go for. I did read this helpful thread and while the OP described how he made the spirit healer henchie also tank (so I at least know it should be possible), I still need a bit more in the detail department. I haven't played enough to really "get" the exhaustion mechanic and all that jazz.


Specific questions:

1. What armor type (and consequently what stat at what # -- I read I can use my magic stat instead of strength for this) should I aim for? I don't want to just cast my self-buffs and auto attack the whole time, so I'd like to have a reasonable mana pool that I could actually throw a heal on teammates here and there, maybe some debuffs, etc. Is heavy too much? Medium? Light?

2. I read this wiki on which spells can be cast w/out a staff here. Which of these would you consider "must haves" for an arcane warrior? I'd like to go ahead and start building myself toward them before I unlock the specialization so I can hit the ground running.

3. I would probably shy away from the frost line for the simple fact I might want to include Morrigan in the party and I'd prefer there not be overlap there.

4. Please keep in mind I'm much less interested in high damage output and more in survivability and buffing/healing my team and possibly debuffing/CCing enemies. I would intend to go with sword and board.


Eeeeehm...and I think that might be it. If I think of other unrelated noobie questions I may post them here too though. I just tried to make a separate thread from my Bard one so that if someone else tried searching for this it would be easier to find.

[Bullets McDeath]

Well, I would just point out that really the Warrior specialized as a Templar/Champion is far more Paladin than... pretty much any mage build. A Mage specialized as Arcane Warrior/Spirit Healer is really much more of a Cleric than a Paladin. We may have different ideas of Paladin in mind though. To answer your armor question, once you have the AW spec you use your Magic stat to equip armor so unless you've completely borked your attributes, you should have it high enough to wear Massive Armor and there's really no reason not to.

Also, look in the Projects section... I see you have the PC version, there is a mod that gets rid of the problem where you sheathe your weapons when casting some spells. If you can't find it I can dig it up somewhere for you. Or if you don't want to mod you can just make one of their weapon sets a sword and board and leave the second set empty and just switch to your empty weapon set when you are casting.

Modifié par outlaworacle, 03 janvier 2010 - 01:16 .

[Sarielle]

That's probably a good point about the cleric. I suppose I was thinking paladin more because I see some healing auras, but you're probably correct.



Please explain what "massive armor" is though? I've only been playing for about 2 or 3 days xD

[Bullets McDeath]

Massive Armor are the crazy huge plate mail armors, like the Blood Dragon armor. Basically you have light armors (leather), medium (scale, chain, etc.), heavy (heavy chainmail, dwarven armor) and then Massive. Heavy and Massive armors have much higher fatigue penalties, meaning your spells will cost more but by the mid teen levels, this should not stop you from wearing Massive Armor if you want to. So especially if you're taking AW as your second spec at Level 14, you should have no problem equipping the biggest, baddest armor in the game. Warden Commander is especially nice if you have the Warden's Keep DLC, the item set bonus for it massively offsets the fatigue penalty.

[Sarielle]

Oooh, okay. So I read in another thread that I'd need 42 magic to wear the massive set...though I'm assuming I'd eventually want that higher since it'll also fuel my spells.



I've also read in another thread about Arcane Warriors that about 20 Dex is optimal, so I have a decent hit chance?



What kind of willpower should I look at (again, I want to have decent spellcasting abilities)? Bother with Con, or no?



Would you suggest waiting to take AW as my second specialization, due to the fatigue bonuses?



Sorry for all these questions...I'm comfortable building rogues/bards but not so much mages, particularly something this specialized

[Bullets McDeath]

No problem... boards are the perfect place for questions like these. I'm a compulsive pre-planner with my characters so I understand where you're coming from.

So I read in another thread that I'd need 42 magic to wear the massive set...though I'm assuming I'd eventually want that higher since it'll also fuel my spells.

It depends on the set, I don't have the exact numbers in front of me at the moment but I think the lowest Str requirement for Massive Armors is 38 and the highest is 42. For you as an AW, this will be your Magic not your Str. You should definitely stack Magic as your primary stat. You can also get bonuses from certain equipment and in the Fade portion of the Mage Circle quest you get a number of free attribute points to all of your attributes if you are very thorough. Basically as long as you are putting at LEAST one point of Magic in every level (and it should be 2 or 3 for most levels) you shouldn't have much problem hitting 42 magic.

I've also read in another thread about Arcane Warriors that about 20 Dex is optimal, so I have a decent hit chance?

You'll definitely want to raise DEX some... where exactly depends on you, but 20 should serve your purposes very well.

What kind of willpower should I look at (again, I want to have decent spellcasting abilities)? Bother with Con, or no?

Your Willpower determines how much available mana and again I don't have exact numbers on me at the moment but if I recall correctly, each point of Willpower nets you 5 extra mana. For most mages, +2 magic, +1 willpower is ideal at level up. But when you need to start pumping up other stats (like Dex for better hit chance or Cun for Coercion ranks) definitely take the hit from Willpower. It is handy but not vital. If you run out of mana, there's *plenty* of Lyrium around. As for Con, it's the same deal basically... 5 hp per point gained. Con is really only important for Blood Mages... as a Spirit Healer, lower HP isn't as big a problem. If the rest of your stats are progressing well and where you want them, you can drop some into Con, but I wouldn't say it's necesarry at all. An extra 2-5 points of Con from level 1 to endgame would be more than enough (IMO).

Would you suggest waiting to take AW as my second specialization, due to the fatigue bonuses?

Definitely a case of "your mileage may vary" but that is what I would recommend. By that time, your Magic stat should be very high, fatigue should be less of an issue for you and it gives you time to pump up other stats like Dex. It does mean that you'll be very squishy and mage-like until level 14, if you can handle that. The other way around will give you a more "paladin" type feel earlier on, but you'll be kind of crappy at it until you level up some more anyway, hence why I recommend it second. Plus, Spirit Healer rules and having that early is always a good thing.

Modifié par outlaworacle, 03 janvier 2010 - 01:57 .

[Solistus1]

Personally, I skip Willpower almost entirely and simply chug lyrium potions instead. In the fights that are hard enough for your build to matter much, you will quickly deplete your starting reserve of mana and at that point, your Willpower is doing very little for you compared to more Magic. As an AW you are already pretty much locked into heavy potion dependency, since your fatigue will be much higher than a typical mage.

Modifié par Solistus1, 03 janvier 2010 - 01:59 .

[Sarielle]

Thank you so very much. This has been super helpful. I'll probably go as suggested and stay squishy for awhile...it's not ideal but I can deal with it. At least then I'll have effective heals and not be an ineffective tankish sort instead. Like poor Alistair at first.

I really am gonna be nicer to him with this character, lol.

EDIT: And yeah, I don't necessarily min-max (because I still go with what concept I think is fun) but I want to plan enough to not gimp myself unnecessarily.

EDIT EDIT: Potion dependent, got it. Thanks for letting me know what I'm getting myself into

Modifié par Sarielle, 03 janvier 2010 - 02:03 .

[SusanStoHelit]

To some extent, it's a matter of personal preference. I like some in willpower for my AW/SH (possibly my favourite class) because, like you, I don't just want them to tank and auto attack. Heal, hex, and cc are the three I focus on.

Keep in mind, however, that if you go straight to the Mages Tower after Lothering (and you should, imo, to get Wynne and because of what I'm about to say) you get 21 permanent attribute points if you do it all and don't miss any. Cunning +5, Willpower +4, Constitution +2, Dexterity +4, Strength +4, and Magic +2. So wait until after that if you can to add points into anything but Magic.

All of that said, really, really, focus on Magic. Definitely go for massive armour, there are several mods out there that have Arcane Warrior armor for the pc, the Fade Armor set is particularly fine, and definitely get the casting fix mod (I have both). There is also a very nice Arcane Warrior sword available later in the game, In the meantime, use equipment (as you get it) that will boost your stats (especially magic or spellpower) or give mana regeneration in combat. Spell resistance, spirit resistance, and fire resistance are also particularly helpful, imo.

Edit: If you have already unlocked Arcane Warrior on your account: I took Arcane Warrior first and used Wynne as the Spirit Healer in my group until I got to level 14. Then I took Spirit Healer and Wynne took AW. Added a rogue dual wielding dps machine, and swapped the other member around for variety. We kicked major butt.

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 03 janvier 2010 - 02:19 .

[Sarielle]

I don't have AW unlocked yet. I just got the game, so. I'm not even sure if I'll play this character for a bit yet, since I'm nowhere near done with it on my bard. I just want to eventually get to experience romance options, lol.



Glad to know you've played this combo (and in the playstyle I was hoping for )



These forums make me happy. Lots o very helpful people.

[SusanStoHelit]

Oh, in that case fyi, your Bard can unlock the AW specialisation for you when you do the Brecilian Forest quest line. Then you can decide what to do when you do the arcane warrior yourself. I won't include any spoilers other than saying it's there in case you don't want to know.

[Sarielle]

Oh, okay. No, I didn't realize you could unlock on other characters. Thanks much.

[Mr_Raider]

If you want to be spirit healer, definitely put some in willpower. Your big strength is to be able to sit back, chuck spells and heals, and wade in to the melee if needed. Half the time, I don't even activate combat magic as I can get a lot of the killing done before.



I would aim for magic at 60 by end game and willpower around 40, You will get 4 dex points from the Fade, and another 2 from AW spec. That's 16 already, plenty IMHO, but you can dropa few spare in there if you want.



Remember your job is not hit the big bosses with your sword, it's to change the tide of the fight in favor of your team.



That being said, I've seen advocates of high dex dual wielding Aw spec. Something to think about.

[Sarielle]

Thanks for the hard numbers I'd planned on adding at least some willpower, it's nice to know what you aim for.



Though, I don't much want to be sitting back in the back Right in the middle is more my style. And yeah, I've heard DW AW (lots of W's) can do really nice damage, but I have my rogue for that.

[Mr_Raider]

As an AW you can sit in the middle of the pack. Your strength is that you can take aggro wathc the little enemies chip at you like rats, and stil fire away spells. You can sit back and shoot ranged spells. You can tank and hold the line with the best the them, or you can melee the lesse enemies yourself. It's about flexibility. The onlything you can't do is open a chest.

[SusanStoHelit]

Because I also like to do the spell thing first, and use the AW skills as a back up and to make my mage looooots tougher, I also put some into willpower. I found around 28 worked for me (including the Fade bonuses). Equipment boosted it up further, and if I ran low I used mana potions or sword depending on the situation. That let me get over the 60 mark with Magic and suited my playing style.

[Sarielle]

Mr_Raider wrote...

As an AW you can sit in the middle of the pack. Your strength is that you can take aggro wathc the little enemies chip at you like rats, and stil fire away spells. You can sit back and shoot ranged spells. You can tank and hold the line with the best the them, or you can melee the lesse enemies yourself. It's about flexibility. The onlything you can't do is open a chest.

Yes, this is precisely why I wanted to give this build a try. You're preaching to the choir.

I'm going to focus on magic first and foremost, and dabble with some WILL once I see how good (or bad) my mana management is. Some pots is fine, but I don't want to be utterly crippled without them.

[SusanStoHelit]

Actually, lmao, I have a mod that gives mages a lockopening line of skills. It's not a cheat in that the skills aren't free, you have to use up your skill points that you'd otherwise put elsewhere, but it's there. None of my mages use it - except I also have a mod that doesn't level up companions before you get them. So, at Ostagar, if you aren't a mage, you get a mage in your party. But you don't get a rogue. You always end up with warriors and one mage. So I always give him one lockpicking spell (that's all he needs at that level). I know there's nothing terribly valuable in those chests, but money is especially tight in the early game - and it irks me that they didn't include a rogue and I can't open them. I open every damn container in the game, unlock all the doors, and so on.

[Cybercat999]

Just dont spread yourself too thin. It depends on your party a lot too. My present game I am running with my AW/BM mage and AW/SH Morrigan (I use respec mod), I dont have single point in dex nor will, all magic, Morrigan is 42 magic and the rest all will. I split almost all useful spells between the two of us and still I have a proper tank in party too. You cant really heal, tank and dps/cast spells/melee all at once, neither you need to do that on single character.

I am running nightmare right now and I only pause maybe once or twice in boss fights; I didnt have single wipe yet in this game.

[Godak]

It seems viable. I know from experience that Arcane Warriors can be excellent tanks. Adding Spirit Healer to the mix gives health regen and healing spells. Just remember to invest in willpower for those sustained shield spells, and voila, you have a de facto paladin.

Modifié par Godak, 03 janvier 2010 - 05:21 .

[JaegerBane]

Godak wrote...

It seems viable. I know from experience that Arcane Warriors can be excellent tanks. Adding Spirit Healer to the mix gives health regen and healing spells. Just remember to invest in willpower for those sustained shield spells, and voila, you have a de facto paladin.

I don't think there's any question that it's viable, it just sounds a bit boring. It's the kind of character you'd make from an NPC rather than your own character. It's basically something that you can just tell where to stand and what to do and leave it to it.

[Sarielle]

JaegerBane wrote...

Godak wrote...

It seems viable. I know from experience that Arcane Warriors can be excellent tanks. Adding Spirit Healer to the mix gives health regen and healing spells. Just remember to invest in willpower for those sustained shield spells, and voila, you have a de facto paladin.

I don't think there's any question that it's viable, it just sounds a bit boring. It's the kind of character you'd make from an NPC rather than your own character. It's basically something that you can just tell where to stand and what to do and leave it to it.

-shrug- I'm sure it does seem boring if you don't enjoy playing support type characters. But since bard is my typical playstyle, I happen to enjoy it quite a lot.

I don't intend to only do one thing -- IE only heal, only tank, only melee dps. The fun is in the fact that you're not always doing the same in every encounter....you do what best suits the situation.

As for telling something where to stand and what to do...you can do that with damn near any build, save maybe Morrigan because she likes to freeze her own party too much if you don't micromanage her a bit.

[JaegerBane]

Sarielle wrote...
-shrug- I'm sure it does seem boring if you don't enjoy playing support type characters. But since bard is my typical playstyle, I happen to enjoy it quite a lot.

I don't intend to only do one thing -- IE only heal, only tank, only melee dps. The fun is in the fact that you're not always doing the same in every encounter....you do what best suits the situation.

Ironically your above reasoning is precisely the reason I prefer the AW/BM combo, as the only common thing I'm doing every encounter is dishing out pwnage, whether that be by stabbing everyone up, fiddling with enemy's minds and and perceptions, or just blasting everything to smithereens.

As for telling something where to stand and what to do...you can do that with damn near any build, save maybe Morrigan because she likes to freeze her own party too much if you don't micromanage her a bit.

True, the point I was making is that with the AW/SH build you generally don't see any difference between just telling the character what to do and controlling it yourself. Since it's only defined by it's ability to absorb damage and heal, It just doesn't strike me as something I'd enjoy playing.

With a AW/BM I'm effectively an all-combatant - able to fight any opponent, of any number, at any range, using any method, thanks to the multitude of options available. Being able to choose how to despatch an opponent by either stabbing him, blasting him to bits, paralysing him, getting my pet Skeleton to engage him or simply taking over his mind and forcing him to attack his buddies is one of the reasons I like this game so much 

But each to their own.

[Sarielle]

I see what you're getting at. But I plan on trying to stack enough willpower to also do some spellcasting -- I've really been having fun with glyphs and the telekinesis line as well as my heal.



I plan to not just run around with all my maintainables on all the time, now that I've been playing with them and see how they work -- no reason to waste the mana.

[JaegerBane]

Sarielle wrote...

I see what you're getting at. But I plan on trying to stack enough willpower to also do some spellcasting -- I've really been having fun with glyphs and the telekinesis line as well as my heal.

I plan to not just run around with all my maintainables on all the time, now that I've been playing with them and see how they work -- no reason to waste the mana.

In my experience playing with any more than 3 sustainable and trying to cast is pointless. I rarely bother casting with Combat Magic up - it's got a fast cooldown, so I just switch it on and off as and when needed - same with Blood Magic. My personal preferred sustainables are Flaming Weapons, Miasma or Haste and Shimmering Shield. I rarely need any more than that. Animate Dead is useful.

Spell Might is apparently great to use and whatnot, and makes some pretty great skeletons, but I generally only use it for knock-out blows or special purposes.

Things like Rock Armour and Arcane Shield I basically stop using after level 9.