213 réponses à ce sujet

[MegaSovereign]

Greylycantrope wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

Cool story, but the expectations Bioware had to reach, and the complexity of ME trilogy is far, far, far, far, far, far bigger than Halo will ever dream in achieving. Bioware had to deal with a considerable number of variables, doing something that was never done before (A entire trilogy that remember every decisions of the player).
No, this is not excuse for the flaws of ME3 story, but I'm pretty sure that comparing Halo with ME isn't fair, since you can't find on Halo the complexity that the save import bring to ME, and the expectation of the fans was far bigger, since we was building our character since ME1, and everyone had this burning desire to see the consequences of our decisions on the very end of the game, expectation that you didn't had when you played Halo.

You see? ME3 had the mission to reach a lot more than Halo 4 had, in a extremely harder scenario. Unfair, meanless comparison..

Which would be a fair point if those variables actually played into the ending narrative of ME3, they don't. Ee all ended up in the same room with the same EMS dependant choices.

The EC mitigated this issue with the epilogue where (some of) your major choices are clearly reflected.

[LeandroBraz]

Greylycantrope wrote...

LeandroBraz wrote...

Cool story, but the expectations Bioware had to reach, and the complexity of ME trilogy is far, far, far, far, far, far bigger than Halo will ever dream in achieving. Bioware had to deal with a considerable number of variables, doing something that was never done before (A entire trilogy that remember every decisions of the player).
No, this is not excuse for the flaws of ME3 story, but I'm pretty sure that comparing Halo with ME isn't fair, since you can't find on Halo the complexity that the save import bring to ME, and the expectation of the fans was far bigger, since we was building our character since ME1, and everyone had this burning desire to see the consequences of our decisions on the very end of the game, expectation that you didn't had when you played Halo.

You see? ME3 had the mission to reach a lot more than Halo 4 had, in a extremely harder scenario. Unfair, meanless comparison..

Which would be a fair point if those variables actually played into the ending narrative of ME3, they don't. We all ended up in the same room with the same EMS dependant choices.

I'm not saying they succeeded on ME3, I'm saying it's a unfair comparison. ME3 was a bigger challenge than Halo 4. Plus, they failed on reflecting this decisions on the very ending only, the entire game is marked by our decisions, and full of cool differences, even if some major decisions from previous games hadn't all the impact we hoped for. Still, something amazing, unique, a pioneer work that I hope will bring a better use of this system in the future of the franchise..

[GreyLycanTrope]

MegaSovereign wrote...
The EC mitigated this issue with the epilogue where (some of) your major choices are clearly reflected.

I'm comparing actual the actual confrontation with the bad guy not epilogues. I'll try to avoid spoilers but basically in both Shepard's encounter with the Catalyst and Master Cheif's with his new arch nemesis, there is an element of sacrifice to achieve victory. It's done way more effectively in Halo. To say we can't compare this one scene because Mass Effect is to varied is a tad misleading, Mass effect is varied in other areas but the themes and actions present in the resolutions aren't that varied. These two instances are similar despite different game genres.

[thearbiter1337]

Halo 4 made me not trust synthesis even more

"The Composer was meant to bridge the organic and digital realm...it would have made us immortal"

in ME terms Composer=Crucible

And what happened when the Forerunners tried that to save the Humans from the Flood and make them immortal it failed and created the Prometheans

[corporal doody]

different game...different company.

dont give a rats hindquarters.

[Sweawm]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...


You used the Didact as an example for depth, I pointed out how stupid the Didact was.

Seriously, why did he throw Chief away if he wanted to kill him? Isn't he supposed to be incredibly intelligent?

If he is supposed to represent how deep Halo is then he really shouldn't have completely dropped the ball in his first scene. It's rather counter-productive.

Why didn't Saren simply switch back to his firearm or use Biotics during the fight scene with Shepard on Virmire, and simply kill him instead of allowing Shepard to fight back? Why didn't Harbinger simply finish Normandy, and Shepard off when it had the chance? Why did the Reapers suddenly decide they needed to fire their lasers in very specific ways instead of directly targeting?

It's storytelling. No story will ever be without flaws. Don't make presumptions.

The Didact didn't finish off the Chief when he had the chance, why? First time around, the Didact was simply studying the Master Chief, trying to get a guess at where Hummanity were at currently. Second time? 

I say just being arrogent. The Composer was harvesting Earth, and the Master Chief was firmly within his grasp, which the Didact himself was very interested in studying, rather than killing outright. The last thing he expected was to be held down by hard light and pinned with a grenade.

Either way, he survived the encounter. 

[Deadlysyns]

corporal doody wrote...

different game...different company.

dont give a rats hindquarters.

true and different Game types RPG FPS. thats like comparing bread to cheese 

[Jadebaby]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

You kill a Sith Lord and save Earth.

Really you basically have to switch your brain off when playing Halo.

And Mass Effect 3 is somehow different?

You turn off/control/become BFFs with the Reapers, and save Earth.

At least there's choice. Halo isn't the RPG that ME is, but trying to pretend it put "the smackdown" on ME's ending is just nonsense.

The only way the end of Halo happened was because the bad guy forgot he could just plain kill Master Chief twice, instead he decided to throw him away.

Maybe because Halo isn't an RPG?

And as far as my feelings go, I completely agree with the OP. It kicked ME3 ending's ASS! The thing I really loved was the Cortana sub-plot. It had me in tears at the end. But you know why I'm okay with these tears?

BECAUSE IT WAS FORESHADOWED! And brilliant.

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Seriously, why did he throw Chief away if he wanted to kill him? Isn't he supposed to be incredibly intelligent?

Maybe because they were both in the core of his planet and the core was being destroyed. Just a thought. 

Backed up when the Didact said "this place is now your tomb" and tossing him away. This a good thing, it shows his arrogance is on par with his intelligence. Oh by the way... Intelligence =/= being able to predict the future.

Instead of attacking this part, you should be attacking how the portal just randomly appeared there. But then you'd look like a nit-picker.

[Jadebaby]

thearbiter1337 wrote...

Halo 4 made me not trust synthesis even more

"The Composer was meant to bridge the organic and digital realm...it would have made us immortal"

in ME terms Composer=Crucible

And what happened when the Forerunners tried that to save the Humans from the Flood and make them immortal it failed and created the Prometheans

Yep, many sci-fi and fantasy stories have touched upon a Synthesis. Not specifcally A.I and organic. But a lot of different things. Caesar's Legion in Fallout: New Vegas for one.

The thing all these other stories have in common is that Synthesis is frowned upon.

Oh yea, @ OP. I agree completely. I beat Halo4 a couple of days ago. Replaying again now on Legendary. Gotta get those achievements.  

Best part is that it was emotional as well, but I can still actually play it through again, meaning although they were sad emotions, they didn't leave me in a mess unable to play any video games for two weeks like some other game did... I think that game was trying to hard.

[Ausstig]

In this hour of victory we taste only defeat.

Sums up most ME3's endings pretty well.

I also agree with op. And I was happy for MC's voice actor because he got to EMOTE, hay Jessica Chobot, know what that is. ha

[Bob Garbage]

The thing is, Mass Effect is supposed to be more than just red, green or blue. Halo isn't. Halo is just Halo and it's always done it well. I really liked Halo 4, the single player campaign is challenging (seriously Mass Effect could learn here) co-op campaign + other co-op missions + a highest difficulty setting that is actually hard. Not to mention multiplayer is probably going to be the best as far as FPSs go (I'm actually really impressed with it). Now, the story (slight spoiler) is basically just focussed on the relationship between Cortona and Master Chief, and really is just building what's to come in the new trilogy, and honestly outside of creating an emotional story for Cortona and MC, there wasn't a whole lot else going on. My favourite campaigns are still 1, 2 and ODST. All said and done, the new Halo is fvcking beautiful.

Modifié par Bob Garbage, 10 novembre 2012 - 08:58 .

[Purge the heathens]

Saying that Halo 4 has a better ending than ME3 is like saying that an apple makes for a better fork than a car.

[Bob Garbage]

Not so much, as neither are going to be held to the same standard. ME promised more than they were really willing to offer, bottom line. Halo 4, though no where near the depth of a ME game, is far more successful in it's conclusion than ME3 was. Which wasn't successful in concluding at all really.

[GenericEnemy]

If you ask me, both endings at their core were absolutely awful.

The difference is, Halo 4 executed it very well; the fact that you could clearly tell how heartbroken Chief was despite not seeing his face was great, among other things.

ME3. well....

Modifié par GenericEnemy, 10 novembre 2012 - 09:41 .

[Ausstig]

I don't know DA:O only had one 'ending',you kill the Archdemon and then slides, so a final choice isn't needed in a good rpg.

What do you define as 'depth' in a game any way? Halos universe is just as deep, if not more so, then Mass Effects. So I am interested

[Mr.House]

Halo 4's ending was a masterpiece, ME3's ending was bad satire.

[shodiswe]

The difference with Halo is that there are no choices. It's a fixed story, no vaibles, complications, nothing, the main character is a grunt with no imput given to the palyer.

Terefor it can't be compared to ME3.

That said, ME3's ending failed to be entertaining, all I feelt when it was done was "Was that it?". The end mission made it look like Halo(railroaded story)... And I've played Halo - 3... I havn't played Halo 4 yet, might do it in the future though.. maybe...

Modifié par shodiswe, 10 novembre 2012 - 10:04 .

[EnvyTB075]

shodiswe wrote...

The main character is a grunt with no imput given to the palyer.

No. Chief isn't simply a grunt. Just because there is no player agency involved doesn't make him any less of a character than Shepard became in ME3.

[Lolomlas]

Please, I'm a Halo fan too, but I think Halo 4 was the worst episode of the series. It's story is a big cliche. Basicly the same as Mass Effect's, only difference is ME had 20 hours to explore it's story, where Halo 4 had 5-6. But I must admit it had at least a satisfying ending, but so did ME1. You really should compare ME3 with Halo 6 when it's out. And this is subjective but I couldn't be serious about Didact when I heard his voice actor is the same as Harbinger's. When he took control of the prometheans, I almost heard him saying "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL!".

[Jadebaby]

Mr.House wrote...

Halo 4's ending was a masterpiece, ME3's ending was bad satire.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Putting the smackdown on ME 3 ending is like managing to walk and chew gum at the same time... really not that much of an achievement, But i guess it's a big thing for Halo players.

[Eterna]

Who cares?

Are we can have threads like these each time a new game releases?

Modifié par Eterna5, 10 novembre 2012 - 11:06 .

[Kanaris]

Eterna5 wrote...

Who cares?

Are we can have threads like these each time a new game releases?

Now that you've said that yes we probably will.....good job on jinxing yourself 

Modifié par Kanaris, 10 novembre 2012 - 11:22 .

[Arbiter156]

I finished the campaign and I have to say it was excellent. The only real problem the story suffered is there was no main focus of the plot, the relationship between MC and cortana needed more attention if it were to be the main plot line, that said it was excellently done some of the lines cortana came out with were incredibly moving.

Cortana: "Chief.... When we get back to earth, don't tell them how bad i got... please"

MC: "don't worry... I won't"

At one point thinking cortana was dead I went into a blind rage and took on 5 promethean knights at once just with my pistol and fists and won.

Honestly halo 4 is great it could have done with a little more work on the story but my issues with it are minor next to ME3.

For all those haters go and read the halo wiki, that thing is far bigger than mass effect wiki and shows you don't need to be an RPG to have a kick-ass story and universe. The halo-verse is huge and would make even mass effect wimper.

You know if bioware just fixed the ending we could all be discs cussing how great both games are, but no...... Art.

[Captain Crash]

I get the feeling they watched ME3 end and took a hard long look how not to do it. I mean they are both Space Operas at the end of the day. The similarities at times were eery.

I never thought ME3 was terrible. Just shoddily done, but after playing Halo 4 it kind of made me feel that the way it ended should have been the direction ME3 took.