30 réponses à ce sujet

[DarthVarner]

 Here's what I think is happening.  I'll get to why I'm fairly sure this is what is going on below, but the tl;dr will go first this time. Here's how (and why) the health gate breaks:

1) You hit shield gate for some reason.  
2) You regain some small amount of shields (NOT through normal regen), while in the window for shield gate.
3) You get hit for a high amount of damage in ONE shot, enough to drop you to zero - while you have some amount of shields, before the shield gate is back up.
4) The damage never registers as going to health, you just drop. No health gate.

The situation in #2 can occur if you have a Demolisher on the team and, after hitting shield gate, you run into the Pylon circle - or if a Volus specced for Duration (small amounts of regen for ~12 sec, but no DR) used Shield Boost recently - or if a Geth Turret restores part of your shields at the perfect moment.  It can also occur if you are VERY squishy right after using an Ops pack, when the invulnerability fades. Enemies which deal enough damage to zero many classes through shields in one shot include Atlases, Ravagers, Phantoms, Scions, and possibly Rocket Troopers. 

Now for why I think this is the problem.  Here's the situation:

I'm playing Platinum, and in one wave we get a lone Atlas remaining. I'm on my GI with HM enabled, so I'm pretty squishy. The game says "ONE enemy left" and highlights the thing, so there is zero chance I was catching other fire.  No Ravager goo around either.  I never took a rocket from this Atlas, nor was there lingering DoTs from, say, a Banshee.  Here's how it went down.

1) There's a Volus on the team, specced for Duration not DR.  He'd used shield boost recently.
2) I take one hit from the Atlas (first in a volley of 4) and go to shield gate.  Works as expected.  At this point I have maybe 3 bars of HP left. 
3) I hop behind a wall, and the lingering Shield Boost restores a fraction of my shields; perhaps 20%.  
4) I know my shield gate isn't back up, but break cover before the Atlas's 4th shot anyway, knowing that shot should go, at most, to health gate.
5) Atlas's 4th shot in the volley takes me from about 20% shields to dead.
6) I'm sitting at my keyboard, jaw dropped, completely shocked.

Sadly I didn't have FRAPS up to record this, but I believe this is the root of the healthgate issue.  At release the only way to restore shields was an Ops pack or normal regen, which happens after the shield gate is back up... so the health gate probably only triggers if you take damage ON HEALTH.  Except now there are mobile shield restoration units that can break this assumption.

I'm going to try to reproduce this and get it recorded.

Modifié par DarthVarner, 10 novembre 2012 - 06:11 .

[ASmoothCriminalx]

is there even a video of this happening? I think that would be very helpful in proving that anything is wrong with the healthgate.

I've seen a few, but nothing definitive or showcasing what you described in your tl;dr.

**Edit: after reading again, it definitely sounds like something worth testing. However, there is little difference between getting shieldgated and then having shield regen from SB and getting shieldgated and having a geth turret heal you. So, I think this issue would have occured earlier.

I've been aware of the issue of a possible healthgate issue for a while now. So anytime I go down in game I assess what could have killed me. Since I've been doing this, I haven't noticed a problem with the gates.

Modifié par ASmoothCriminalx, 10 novembre 2012 - 05:10 .

[DarthVarner]

Nobody has actually tested THIS situation. It happens fairly often in games with a Volus around, but everyone's been focused on other stuff like Hunters maybe going through healthgate.

This wouldn't explain Hunters. But it does have the potential to explain a lot.

[aimimia]

bump

Modifié par aimimia, 10 novembre 2012 - 05:19 .

[sclera]

Here's my theory for why people think health gate isn't working.

Have you ever been sitting on 0 shields, waiting behind cover for them to regenerate, and noticed that once your shields start regenerating, your health suddenly drops down from four bars to one? Somewhere between you and the host, your health value isn't being updated properly - it's telling you you have 4 bars but in reality you have 1. For me at least, this is a fairly common bug, and if it's as common for others as it is for me, it would explain why sometimes you supposedly drop from full health to none.

[DarthVarner]

aimimia wrote...

Cyonan actually tested this with numbers and all. Nothing is wrong with shield gate/health gates

Did you take the time to read my post?  I think not.

Unless Cyonan tested a high-damage enemy dropping his shields with one shot, getting a residual amount of them restored by a Volus which didn't spec DR, and then getting hit again - this remains an open question.

[DarthVarner]

sclera wrote...

Here's my theory for why people think health gate isn't working.

Have you ever been sitting on 0 shields, waiting behind cover for them to regenerate, and noticed that once your shields start regenerating, your health suddenly drops down from four bars to one? Somewhere between you and the host, your health value isn't being updated properly - it's telling you you have 4 bars but in reality you have 1. For me at least, this is a fairly common bug, and if it's as common for others as it is for me, it would explain why sometimes you supposedly drop from full health to none.

I had a great connection or was hosting, can't recall which.  This was not the case here.  

Modifié par DarthVarner, 10 novembre 2012 - 05:11 .

[Zero132132]

aimimia wrote...

Cyonan actually tested this with numbers and all. Nothing is wrong with shield gate/health gates

Do you respond to threads like this constantly without reading them? I read Cyonan's thread. He didn't test what the OP is proposing.

[sclera]

So to tl;dr your idea:

Health gate deactivates when shield gate is cooling down?

[aimimia]

EDIT:BUMP

Modifié par aimimia, 10 novembre 2012 - 05:19 .

[Javo2357]

You may be onto something OP...interesting. I wonder if the health gate works that way...

[DarthVarner]

sclera wrote...

So to tl;dr your idea:

Health gate deactivates when shield gate is cooling down?

More like health gate only triggers if the damage that takes you below 5% health is applied TO HEALTH.  

Squishy char with shield regen around gets hit - on shields - for enough damage to drop him/her?  Dead.

[Javo2357]

aimimia wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

aimimia wrote...

Cyonan actually tested this with numbers and all. Nothing is wrong with shield gate/health gates

Do you respond to threads like this constantly without reading them? I read Cyonan's thread. He didn't test what the OP is proposing.

If I read every thread that whines about something, I wouldn't have time to play! (By this point, I made an assumption that most, if not all threads about gates are going to be complaining they aren't working for some odd reason)


EDIT: Unless you test with numbers, I don't think it's worth theorizing if it's working or not. 

It's a plausible explanation. Yes, it needs to be tested to be confirmed, but I could totally see this being a reason for the healthgate not working.

[Zero132132]

aimimia wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

aimimia wrote...

Cyonan actually tested this with numbers and all. Nothing is wrong with shield gate/health gates

Do you respond to threads like this constantly without reading them? I read Cyonan's thread. He didn't test what the OP is proposing.

If I read every thread that whines about something, I wouldn't have time to play! (By this point, I made an assumption that most, if not all threads about gates are going to be complaining they aren't working for some odd reason)

EDIT: Unless you test with numbers, I don't think it's worth theorizing if it's working or not. 

In the future, don''t bother to make posts if you have no damned idea what the thread topic is. It kind of makes you look stupid. I know that reading is hard, and some people get headaches when they have to think too much, and that's fine, but don't respond if you don't know what you're responding to.

Cyonan's tests showed a very specific thing; that shieldgate and healthgate still exist under continuous fire on all difficulties, and that their durations are what they should be. That's fairly limited in terms of what many people think is wrong with the gates.

[aimimia]

My apologizes, I am tired and bored so I didn't put the effort that was required of me to post back to the thread. I won't repeat the mistake another time

[.jpg.exe]

newly back to game, what's the "thingo"+gate mean? I get the first post sort of but blah~gate ??

[Arppis]

THIS has happened to me too.

I fought against Scion and took 2 hits from him, used Ops pack, saw my shields and health full up... then got hit again and it was insta down. This was hosting btw. 

Modifié par Arppis, 10 novembre 2012 - 06:16 .

[sclera]

.jpg.exe wrote...

newly back to game, what's the "thingo"+gate mean? I get the first post sort of but blah~gate ??

Shield gate: a mechanic that stops damage from passing through your shields into your health. That is to say, if you have 100 shields left and take 500 damage from one bullet, you will not lose any health. 

Health gate: that tiny bit of health at the beginning of your first health bar that saves your life all the time. 

[ParanoidDrone]

.jpg.exe wrote...

newly back to game, what's the "thingo"+gate mean? I get the first post sort of but blah~gate ??

Shield/health gate are mechanics applied to the player that prevent large amounts of damage from killing you instantly.  When an attack breaks your shield, the rest of the attack's damage is negated and you enjoy a small window of invulnerability.  (0.5s on bronze, 0.25s on silver, 0.1s on gold, 0.01s on platinum.)  The gate then goes on cooldown for a few seconds.  The same mechanics apply to your health, although it kicks in at 1 HP instead of 0 for obvious reasons.

Grenades, synch kills (Banshee grabs, etc.) and Possessed Abomination explosions all bypass shield/health gate by design.

Since the latest patch/DLC release, people have reported issues with the shield/health gates not working properly.  OP encountered a specific situation that may explain the issue, at least partially.

[rtbh99]

if this was a thing wouldnt volus be getting dropped by nemesis' left and right??

[Arppis]

rtbh99 wrote...

if this was a thing wouldnt volus be getting dropped by nemesis' left and right??

Didn't know Nemesis shoots aoe bullets like ravagers, scions and atlas'es.

Because it seems to happen only with these enemies.

Modifié par Arppis, 10 novembre 2012 - 06:26 .

[KiraTsukasa]

Ok, but how does this explain the same thing happening when there isn't a volus in the game, no demolisher, no energy drain, not using an ops pack, and is not part of normal shield regen? Shields don't just magically appear like that.

[Wyld Star]

DarthVarner wrote...
At release the only way to restore shields was an Ops pack or normal regen, which happens after the shield gate is back up... so the health gate probably only triggers if you take damage ON HEALTH.  Except now there are mobile shield restoration units that can break this assumption.

I'm going to try to reproduce this and get it recorded.

Well, there has always been energy drain.. .  And this is sorta interesting, and makes me wonder if maybe this is related to the permanent blood-red screen you can sometimes get from being at healthgate and getting your shields restored...