152 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Death]

DA3 may disappoint only time will tell, but what hope do we have at this point in time? This question are for those who were displeased by DA2, but loved Origins. Without hope, waiting & anticipation seems pointless.

I guess this thread is meant to build upon hope by those who understand disappointment & therefore share similar experiences, ultimately encouraging one another to lead to hope. I'd strongly put my hope in BioWare in the past like many others. I feel robbed & empty after DA2 & ME3 as an end result. I want BioWare to succeed despite feeling conflicted of their posthumous indigence surrounding quality.

Maybe the times are changing too fast for some of us. Maybe Origins fans aren't welcomed in the new age of BioWare. What hope do you have?     

[Steppenwolf]

Well, it all depends on why you liked Origins but disliked II.

Inquisition has-
-a voiced, human-only protagonist
-No origins, just selections of past events a la Commander Shepard
-companion customization
-an actual quest, not just vaguely connected events

So who knows?

[Plaintiff]

I'm sure Bioware welcomes anyone who wants to play their games, as long as they can avoid being a snob about it (hint).

But I got the impression that the development team was never fully satisfied with DA:O. I think DA2 is more in line with their original creative vision, and that they plan to, by and large, follow that direction for the next installment.

But you know, game companies are sometimes going to make products that you dislike. It happens. The best they can do is make the game that they want to make, and hope that you'll enjoy it as well.

[Darth Death]

BasilKarlo wrote...

Well, it all depends on why you liked Origins but disliked II.

Inquisition has-
-a voiced, human-only protagonist
-No origins, just selections of past events a la Commander Shepard
-companion customization
-an actual quest, not just vaguely connected events

So who knows?

Do you have hope that DA3 will be a good game despite what you've listed? I know it's still too early to tell, but nevertheless your input is invaluable.

[Steppenwolf]

Plaintiff wrote...

But I got the impression that the development team was never fully satisfied with DA:O. I think DA2 is more in line with their original creative vision

Well, leadership of the project changed hands toward the very end of Origins' development. The whole point of Dragon Age was to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. Dragon Age 2 hardly seems in line with that and seems to me to be much more in line with their more current goals.

[Plaintiff]

BasilKarlo wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

But I got the impression that the development team was never fully satisfied with DA:O. I think DA2 is more in line with their original creative vision

Well, leadership of the project changed hands toward the very end of Origins' development. The whole point of Dragon Age was to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. Dragon Age 2 hardly seems in line with that and seems to me to be much more in line with their more current goals.

They dropped that tagline after DA:O anyway, so I don't see how it's relevant, but as it is, "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate" is an extremely vague phrase that could mean several different things.

It could mean "party-based game set in fantasy universe", or "non-linear storytelling with lots of choice". Some people were probably expecting "a game set in the D&D universe, with D&D rules", and found Origins deeply disappointing as a result.

[Steppenwolf]

Darth Death wrote...

Do you have hope that DA3 will be a good game despite what you've listed? I know it's still too early to tell, but nevertheless your input is invaluable.

Well, let me start by saying I didn't hate DA2. I think it's a deeply flawed game that would have been deeply flawed if they had had twice the time to develop it. They took a sharp left turn and IMO betrayed what Dragon Age was supposed to be about. That said, it wasn't the worst RPG I played that year.
But do I have hope that Inquisition will be a good game? Sure, I have hope. But do I have a reasonable expectation that it will be a good game? Not really. Bioware always claims to be listening to the fans, but that seems like a hard case to make considering their recent failings. And truth be told, DA2 and ME3 being so substandard has really been a punch to the gut for me. Bioware has been my favorite developer since long before KOTOR and they truly made some of what I consider to be the best games of all time. Now it seems like they just don't care about the things they used to care about. Mass Effect turned into an oversexed romance simulator with no focus on story. Dragon Age became every other action-fantasy game with a romance simulator thrown on to make it the sort of Bioware game that their fanbase now expects.
I've really been soured on gaming in general by 2 of my favorite franchises jumping the shark.

[Steppenwolf]

Plaintiff wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

But I got the impression that the development team was never fully satisfied with DA:O. I think DA2 is more in line with their original creative vision

Well, leadership of the project changed hands toward the very end of Origins' development. The whole point of Dragon Age was to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. Dragon Age 2 hardly seems in line with that and seems to me to be much more in line with their more current goals.

They dropped that tagline after DA:O anyway, so I don't see how it's relevant, but as it is, "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate" is an extremely vague phrase that could mean several different things.

It could mean "party-based game set in fantasy universe", or "non-linear storytelling with lots of choice". Some people were probably expecting "a game set in the D&D universe, with D&D rules", and found Origins deeply disappointing as a result.

Except it doesn't mean a lot of things. No one expected Origins to just be one of those things after hearing it was the spiritual successor to BG. And DA2 was a linear game with choices that all lead to the same place, so it certainly doesn't fit the bill in that regard.

[Plaintiff]

BasilKarlo wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

But I got the impression that the development team was never fully satisfied with DA:O. I think DA2 is more in line with their original creative vision

Well, leadership of the project changed hands toward the very end of Origins' development. The whole point of Dragon Age was to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. Dragon Age 2 hardly seems in line with that and seems to me to be much more in line with their more current goals.

They dropped that tagline after DA:O anyway, so I don't see how it's relevant, but as it is, "spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate" is an extremely vague phrase that could mean several different things.

It could mean "party-based game set in fantasy universe", or "non-linear storytelling with lots of choice". Some people were probably expecting "a game set in the D&D universe, with D&D rules", and found Origins deeply disappointing as a result.

Except it doesn't mean a lot of things. No one expected Origins to just be one of those things after hearing it was the spiritual successor to BG. And DA2 was a linear game with choices that all lead to the same place, so it certainly doesn't fit the bill in that regard.

Please define the "spirit" of Baldur's Gate for me, then.

DA2 didn't have to fit any bill, because they never claimed that it would. That phrase appeared on the back of the DA:O box and nowhere else.

When a videogame franchise only has one installment, its identity is hardly set in stone.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 11 novembre 2012 - 03:05 .

[Darth Death]

BasilKarlo, thanks for your response. There were plenty of aspects in your comment that I could reflect upon personally.

[Steppenwolf]

Plaintiff wrote...

When a videogame franchise only has one installment, its identity is hardly set in stone.

I have no idea what this means.

[ScarMK]

I have very little hope. They say that they are taking the best from both games and we've heard what they're keeping from DA2, but no word on what they're taking from Origins.

[Masha Potato]

you're all doomed

[jillabender]

Plaintiff wrote...

I'm sure Bioware welcomes anyone who wants to play their games, as long as they can avoid being a snob about it (hint).

But I got the impression that the development team was never fully satisfied with DA:O. I think DA2 is more in line with their original creative vision, and that they plan to, by and large, follow that direction for the next installment.

But you know, game companies are sometimes going to make products that you dislike. It happens. The best they can do is make the game that they want to make, and hope that you'll enjoy it as well.

I agree – I get the strong impression that the dev team are quite perfectionistic, and highly motivated to create the most enjoyable game possible, but with so many contradictory preferences strongly held by fans, they can't please everyone.

Although I'm often critical of DA2, it's not because I didn't enjoy it – I did. It's just that although I liked it, I didn't love it the way that I love Origins.

Compared with Origins, DA2 seems to be geared toward an approach where the player makes choices from the point of view of a player influencing the direction of the story ("I want to see how the story will play out if I do x"), as opposed to making choices from the point of view of a character. While there's nothing wrong with that approach, it's not my preference, and I found myself struggling with it at times.

From what I've heard from the developers, it does sound as though DA2 is closer to their original vision than DA:O in many ways, so I can't really disagree with you there – although I admit that I can't help feeling a bit disappointed to find out that the developers didn't necessarily like the same things about Origins that I did.

For me, it's not a matter of being fundamentally opposed to the new direction that BioWare took with DA2 – it's just that DA2 didn't quite manage to sell me on the new direction. But I'm looking forward to DA3 very much – from what I've heard so far, I'm getting the sense that many of the things that frustrated me the most in DA2 won't be present in DA3, so it will give me a chance to form a clearer opinion on the more cinematic direction that BioWare is taking with the series.

Modifié par jillabender, 11 novembre 2012 - 06:19 .

[hexaligned]

I like all sorts of games, so as long as it isn't a rushed pos this time I should be able to get at least some entertainment from it.
The big factors that will determine whether I buy it new and shiny from EA, or used from Gamestop are:
1. Whether or not there is real PC version
2. Easing up on the "streamlining" they decided to go with in DA2
3. Toning down the silly animations a smidge, or 5.

[silentassassin264]

Masha Potato wrote...

you're all doomed

[StarcloudSWG]

I liked DA 2. Yes, it wasn't Origins, but I think the streamlining of inventory and, more importantly, speeding up the combat, was pretty good. And the storyline was decent, and innovative; rather than a traditional 'quest' starting with killing rats in a cellar and ending up with killing gods on a mountaintop, it just followed Hawke through a few years and significant time periods in Hawke's life. That was a different, and welcome, approach.

What I dinged DA 2 for was the excessive reuse of maps, the over the top acrobatics and exploding corpses (seriously, everything got gibbed), and the relatively confined feel of the game. The city was much larger than the small areas we visited. At the same time, the pace of walking, while faster, would've made traversing a larger city tedious, so I guess it was a decent compromise.

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 11 novembre 2012 - 03:58 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Is there any hope, BSN, for Origins and its fans?

There was never much hope... just a fool's hope.



We have time. Every day, the Bioware team moves closer to old-school cRPG mechanics.

Do we knot that?

What does your heart tell you?

That Origins is alive. Yes. Yes, it is alive.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Darth Death wrote...
Maybe the times are changing too fast for some of us. Maybe Origins fans aren't welcomed in the new age of BioWare. What hope do you have?    

I have no hope.

Not with their current vision.

I dislike how they present their story and character. Too much railroading plots and illusion of choices with no benefit to alter the course of story. They want to tell their story while I want to change their story to create my own with my own character. In the past it wasn't much of an issue due to support for toolset and less invasion on player and character agency. But as the time past, BioWare see the need to take control over PC in order to tell a better story. Hence we see autodialogue, 3 restricted personality system, paraphrase, restricted voice tone, smart@ass movie protagonist who never act, emote, behave  and response properly, etc..   This intrusion has becoming more and more apparent with each games. And I do not appreciate it all. 

[Face of Evil]

I liked both games. Am I doing something wrong?

[Plaintiff]

Face of Evil wrote...

I liked both games. Am I doing something wrong?

Yes! Pick a side at once, or be destroyed!

[Mercedes-Benz]

For me Dragon Age: Origins (and Awakening) was an 100/100 game, while Dragon Age II was an 80/100 game, so if Dragon Age III: Inquisition is at least an 90/100 game, I would be very happy with that, as for what do I expect, I expect that Dragon Age III: Inquisition will be a better game than Dragon Age II, but I can't even speculate by how much until we have more information about the game.

[Gilsa]

I saw improvements in DA2 from DA:O (tighter focus) along with some experiments to make the gameplay better. I didn't have any issues with DA2, but I wasn't emotionally invested with it like I was with DA:O. I didn't get the DLC(s) for DA2, but from what I've read, it sounded like the team listened to the feedback and that the DLC(s) reflected that.

I have no idea what to look forward to in DA3, but the one positive thing they do have going for them is that the team does participate with the fans here and occasionally provide glimpses of the thought process behind the writing/development of the game.