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[thebigbad1013]

Spankoman wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

DA3 may disappoint only time will tell, but what hope do we have at this point in time? This question are for those who were displeased by DA2, but loved Origins. Without hope, waiting & anticipation seems pointless.

I guess this thread is meant to build upon hope by those who understand disappointment & therefore share similar experiences, ultimately encouraging one another to lead to hope. I'd strongly put my hope in BioWare in the past like many others. I feel robbed & empty after DA2 & ME3 as an end result. I want BioWare to succeed despite feeling conflicted of their posthumous indigence surrounding quality.

Maybe the times are changing too fast for some of us. Maybe Origins fans aren't welcomed in the new age of BioWare. What hope do you have?     

What an absurdly overdramatic post.

So very true.

Also, with so little information released about the game at this point, this thread really seems like an invitation for a self-pity party.

[Bernhardtbr]

Yeah, Bioware is hopeless, we must ressurect Winston Churchill to make some uplifting speeches to the masses of fans.

Modifié par Bernhardtbr, 11 novembre 2012 - 07:22 .

[Mystch3vi0us]

@big bad the note this thread has taken vs. the original intent of the OP seem to be at odds.  This isn't supposed to be a pity party, but rather a kind of wish list post.  I hope that this will come.  And so forth and so on.  

All that being said I think I'm going to try to take a more positive note...  I did say try.

Bioware mad Mass Effect and it was a huge success.  When 3 came around They showed they were listening to our feedback and made an amazing game.  HOWEVER, Casey Hudson had a different view for the ending of the game (different from people working on his own team if I recall correctly) and threw in his own take on how the game should end.  His ending was not only recieved horribly by the community but Bioware was taken to court and forced to admit that the product they produced was not inline with the product they promised.  (all this for a small point but bear with me.)  As such Bioware, if I'm putting the peices together, is being much more tight lipped about what they are and are not doing with DA:I. 

So with that in mind lets take what they have said (or alluded to very bluntly) and list it.  If I'm missing something please fill in the blanks.  Again don't throw speculation in. 

Aspects from DA:O
+Larger maps
+No more reusing maps
+Longer quest chains
+Armor customization for Companions and Yet unnamed PC.
+Selectable backgrounds for the PC.

Aspects from DA:2
+Fully voiced narative including PC.
-Dialogue Wheel
+Combineable magic attacks
+Distinctive looks for each companion

Now everything mentioned above with a "+" are things that give me hope that this game will be better than DA:2 (which was a horrible game in my mind.)  I can and will speculate on how they are going to mess things up or how something would be AMAZING if they would just impliment it in a specific way, because I'm a gamer and we are generally malcontents.  Face it we are.  But, I do have hope.  Which is more than I can say for the copy of DA:2 I bought and sold over the course of 1 week.  Gawd I hated that game soo much.  Bioware Don't make place holder games.

[InfinitePaths]

Here we go again.Thread Mass effect 3 and/or Dragon age 2 sucked #1456391

[Zeleen]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

 I was gonna say, I really enjoyed Origins, so I'm a "fan".  I also really enjoyed DA2.  So I'm a "fan".

And I'm really, really excited for DA3.  Really really.  

Me too!! 

[BlazingSpeed]

Mercedes-Benz wrote...

For me Dragon Age: Origins (and Awakening) was an 100/100 game, while Dragon Age II was an 80/100 game, so if Dragon Age III: Inquisition is at least an 90/100 game, I would be very happy with that, as for what do I expect, I expect that Dragon Age III: Inquisition will be a better game than Dragon Age II, but I can't even speculate by how much until we have more information about the game.

That and a toolset would be nice that being said just like with DA2 I'll be renting DA3 first.

[VanDraegon]

All you can really do it hope it is more to your liking. The other option is to give up now.

I love, love, love DA:O. DA2 was ok. The story, setting and environments of DA2 were fantastic. I just didnt like the mechanics so much. The hyper fast combat, parachuting reinforcements, the 3 or 4 maps used over and over again. Goofy looking Hurlocks. meh.

The human only protagonist i can get over. I understand that Bioware is setting up a major event in Thedas with the mage/templar war. It only makes sense to tell it from a Human POV since they are the dominant species.

With the outcry from a large section of the fan base, overall sales of DA2 compared to DA:O i am certain the devs have a good idea where to go and what to bring back within the parameters of the next game.

I remain hopeful.

Modifié par VanDraegon, 11 novembre 2012 - 11:58 .

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

I'm a fan of Dragon Age: Origins and a fan of Dragon Age II. The two are not mutually exclusive. I happen to think DA:O and its expansion Awakening are better games than DA II.

When the devs say that they will combine the best elements of DA:O with DA II when making DA III, I really hope that more DA:O elements make it into the game than not.

That said, I am hopeful that Inquisition will be a cool, fun, satisfying game. On that note I think there is hope for Origins fans (even if we're stuck playing as humans).

[Shevy]

jackofalltrades456 wrote...

I believe the whole "We're going to combine all the best features of Origins and mix them into Dragon Age 3." was just marketing bull. As it's been said in the thread, only Dragon age 2 features are getting confirmed right off the bat. When a feature of Origins is brought up they refuse to comment or just explain why they'll never bring it back.

Plus, Bioware has made this statement before with Dragon Age 2. They kept claiming that they were going to bring back the best features of Origins into the game and did the opposite.

This is the point which keeps me skeptical. We heard about this "combining the best of Origins and DA II" a lot, but not even a single "in Origins but not in DA II or changed in DA II and now changed back to Origins style"-feature came into discussion. Nothing about the tactical camera, more open approach to reach the end, crafting system... .
Every confirmed feature is a DA II feature or the loss of an Origins' that wasn't in DA II (race selection, playable background).

In the end I don't have a hope that DA III will amuse me on the same level Origins' did, but I hope it is way better than DA II and a little more on the Origins side, while I doubt the latter point due to the "new direction" and "we're not doing another 180°".

So, if they avoid the, beaten to death, mistakes of DA II I can imagine that they'll create an enjoyable piece of software that doesn't live up to Origins.

[clennon8]

Sometimes I feel like the only person in the world who thinks DA2 was better than DA:O in almost every respect. I hope DA3 emulates DA2 more than DA:O.

[cindercatz]

Without the playable origins (and species selection, to a lesser but significant extent), I'm really skeptical it will live up to DA:O. I'm also dead certain it will be better than DA2, since everything else they've said is positive. Where it falls on that very wide spectrum I don't know.

I'm hoping it'll still be an amazing game, but I'm less hopeful without playable origins, so we'll see, I guess. My expectations right now are mixed.

[Darth Death]

Mystch3vi0us wrote...
Snip

Thanks for your input. I'm glad you took the time to construct your post meaningfully. 

[Accipitrifa]

clennon8 wrote...

Sometimes I feel like the only person in the world who thinks DA2 was better than DA:O in almost every respect. I hope DA3 emulates DA2 more than DA:O.

You're not alone. 

[Caiden012]

clennon8 wrote...

Sometimes I feel like the only person in the world who thinks DA2 was better than DA:O in almost every respect. I hope DA3 emulates DA2 more than DA:O.

Its your opinion. Personally if DA3 reflects DA2 in all aspects I probably won't play. In fact I would prefer if it reflected DA:O in all aspects and that DA2 be fogotten. But thats just my opinion.

[Joe25]

I have hope for DA3. Yes. I also know DA2 was a great game for many. I can see why some player would be mad at thing like losing PC origins, re-using backgrounds, and the cliffhanger ending. I can also see why the things made DA2 stand out from DA:O. Yes, there were time I felt that I wished DA2 was more like DA:O. But, I also know just as many player would be just as mad if DA2 was just a twin of DA:O.

I also hope DA3 has better mage robes. Sorry, it's just I don't  want my pretty Hawk( profile pic) to have to wear a green bag for the first part of the game.

Modifié par joe2353, 12 novembre 2012 - 12:01 .

[Archyyy]

Assuming they do improve environments and choices then the biggest thing remaining are the dialogues. Parapahrasing and the wheel of fortune are back which is bad but if they add more choices and player lines I'll be very happy. Also more dialogue in general. Combat could use a serious revamp too. Much less of it and much slower paced and not bad.

If those things come true, im skeptical, but if they do then DA3 might actually be good.

Modifié par Archyyy, 12 novembre 2012 - 01:08 .

[modernfan]

I think Origins was the greatest game ever and I seriously doubt any developer will make an RPG that amazing ever again. Nowadays, it would be considered too risky and bad business. The industry is run in such a way now that even if Bioware wanted to give us what we really want, they wouldn't be allowed to. Executives holding the purse strings are no longer willing to allocate the resources and time frame required to produce a game like Origins.

I think BioWare is doing its best to give us as much as they can relative to the constraints placed on them. They're having to sacrifice some things we liked & streamline others and the compromises required really suck sometimes. To me, EA is responsible for the way DA2 turned out. They didn't give BioWare enough time for this type of game, plus they threw a ton of money into the Star Wars MMO. If a fraction of that money had been sent DA's way & BioWare had been given another six months, DA2 would have been a much better game.

DA3 will never be Origins. It will, however, be the best effort that BioWare can deliver in this tough business environment. I can't imagine the pressure these people must be under from both sides, but I do appreciate that they keep trying their best to create a memorable gaming experience for us.

Modifié par modernfan, 12 novembre 2012 - 02:54 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

modernfan wrote...
 To me, EA is responsible for the way DA2 turned out. They didn't give BioWare enough time for this type of game, plus they threw a ton of money into the Star Wars MMO. If a fraction of that money had been sent DA's way & BioWare had been given another six months, DA2 would have been a much better game.

I disagree. It's Mass Effect 2's cinematic approach and direction that is responsible for DA 2 turn out. DA teams share the same vision as ME team in what they deem as their future games. They want to make a game like DA 2,  ME and Square Enix's Final Fantasy which overly rely on cinematic cutscene and less emphasize on roleplayability, customization, player agency etc... It's their vision now and EA has nothing to do with that. 

 

[modernfan]

I respect your position, but believe Bioware's decision to take a more cinematic approach and sacrifice the other game aspects you mentioned are the direct result of time & budget constraints. These very things are the compromises I alluded to, and I don't think they were reached due to artistic vision, but rather, out of economic necessity.

[Realmzmaster]

modernfan wrote...

I respect your position, but believe Bioware's decision to take a more cinematic approach and sacrifice the other game aspects you mentioned are the direct result of time & budget constraints. These very things are the compromises I alluded to, and I don't think they were reached due to artistic vision, but rather, out of economic necessity.

There are always time and budget constraints. Choosing a more cinematic approach is a design choice. I do not think that EA gives a damn one way or the other as long as the game can deliver profit ( and sales numbers) within budget and the time given. I do not believe that EA told Bioware use a more cinematic approach.

The developers  made that decision. Just as the developers made the decision to agree to the timeline and budget. Also Bioware is EA. There is no separate company. Bioware is a division and brand name for EA.

The only point EA wants to see it multiplayer to add a more social aspect to the game.

[philippe willaume]

what i hope to have is
- a game that let me role-play the class concept I choose (not a build)
- that each character once he/she is defined has several options to circumvent an encounter. (that includes several combat options and non combat options).
- and a story where the end act is of the same quality as the preceding chapters,

I though that DA:2 was not as good as DA:0 or ME 1 or 2 because of the above.
I can live with what ever game mechanic and animation.

Phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 12 novembre 2012 - 08:00 .

[Gtdef]

Gameplay wise:

-Better camera. If they could bring back the DAO camera for DA3 id be really happy.

-Less enemies, stronger enemies. The 2 waves of random spawning "5 critter 3 normal 1 elite" or whatever enemies of DA2 was just plain bad. It takes away a lot of the tactical combat when a whole wave spawns on your healer out of thin air for no reason. It's okay if there are fight with a lot of enemies, but there should be a trick to these fights, like terrain advantage, not the "just overpower everything while spamming threat control abilities". Legacy did it better, but it was kind of sloppy imo. Also the first fight with the crows in "mark of the assassin" was pretty nice.

-This wasnt good for dao as well, but I'd like to be able to attack while moving. It's pretty important for backstabbers and archers.

-Cross class combos, oh boy, that was hit or miss depending on the class you played. Playing as a warrior that can stagger all the time, it's great. Playing as rogue, it's annoying, I had to use varric as obscuring bot. Playing as mage... meh, better if you use tactics and play other characters. I really liked the dao approach. Hex+cloud, storm of the century, frost+crit, forcefield+prison fun times.

Story/plot
- Dont care about races available for the hero, but I really enjoyed the prologue stories in dao, provided that I only played the human ones . Sets the mood right for the tragedy later. In da2 it was a tragedy within a tragedy within a tragedy and we only saw the boring tragedy.

- The companions. Morrigan was the introvert manipulative **** that you know absolutely nothing about other than she loves you if approval is high, Leliana was the goody2shoes with a history of extreme violence that takes a while to kick in. But the best thing is the way those characters evolve and the conversation you can have with them. In da2, you dont have conversations, everyone tells you outright about their mission, none changes/evolves except Isabela in the end of chapter 2. Aveline is aveline, anders is anders. even goddamn fenris is demystified in the very first conversation you have with him. There are only two instances where you feel like you influence those around you like a leader would, and this is when isabela returns with the tome in the end of act 2 and fenris joining you against the templars in the end of act 3. I enjoyed Hawke way more than the Warden but the Warden felt like a leader while Hawke just some overachiever.

- The Nemesis (that isnt what he seems to be) and the great cause. Bioware does that pretty well. Darth Malak is some Sith that likes to kill people, till you learn that you are Revan himself and Malak is your former best friend. Saren is an intoctrinated agent of the Reapers that want to destroy the world but his intent was to persuade them that the world was worth saving. Loghain betrayed his King but he wanted to protect Ferelden against it's enemies while the burden of what he did weights heavily on him. Hawke doesn't have a nemesis, he is a son to a mother and a brother to a sister (or brother), and he tries to make the ends meet, but he is skillful and is presented with a lot of opportunities. It's difficult to understand what makes this guy that important.

Can't think of anything else right now ;p

[Corto81]

I think DA3 will be final nail in the coffin of the franchise.

The vast majority of the RPG audience, the crowd Bioware grew big on, will just move on to deeper and better RPGs.

It's not only visually fantastic games like Skyrim, WItcher2 or Dark Souls, it's the isometric games coming back - Project Eternity, BG:EE, etc.

People want deep, quality RPGs.
Not wannabe-action-adventure dressed up pretty.

Origins was a phenomenal game, critically acclaimed and it sold great.

Yet, DA3 chooses to stick with most of the stuff that made DA2 such an inferior product (lack of customization, voiced protagonist that limits funds and time and also takes away from RP, etc etc.).

[Korusus]

Corto81 wrote...

I think DA3 will be final nail in the coffin of the franchise.

The vast majority of the RPG audience, the crowd Bioware grew big on, will just move on to deeper and better RPGs.

It's not only visually fantastic games like Skyrim, WItcher2 or Dark Souls, it's the isometric games coming back - Project Eternity, BG:EE, etc.

People want deep, quality RPGs.
Not wannabe-action-adventure dressed up pretty.

Origins was a phenomenal game, critically acclaimed and it sold great.

Yet, DA3 chooses to stick with most of the stuff that made DA2 such an inferior product (lack of customization, voiced protagonist that limits funds and time and also takes away from RP, etc etc.).

I agree wholeheartedly, including that the market has moved on and BioWare is still stuck in 2007, they're designing games for a crowd that no longer exists.  All those players whose first experience with RPGs was Oblivion?  They've evolved, they've come to expect more out of their games, the industry has become more and more story-focused (so that's BioWare's schtick used up).  They want choices that matter, they want open-ended experiences, they want challenging tactical combat, they want a visually stunning game that doesn't depend on recycled resources.

BioWare is stuck on auto-pilot, all of the decisions they've made up to this point prove it, they've learned nothing from DA2 and ME3 from what I can see and they certainly haven't adjusted their decision making process.  All I have to see is their tone, the way they interact with the fanbase, and the changes that have been happening in the studio to know that DA3 is in for some trouble. I will be very surprised if this game is received like anything other than another DA2.  With a resounding "meh"