152 réponses à ce sujet

[Sidney]

clennon8 wrote...

Sometimes I feel like the only person in the world who thinks DA2 was better than DA:O in almost every respect. I hope DA3 emulates DA2 more than DA:O.

The overkill on DA2 has always been more hype than reality. DA2 had some awful short comings but it wasn't as awful as people who whine about it constantly want to try and convince you it is. I suspect if you went back in the DAO forums you'd have a lot of the same people telling you how it wasn't as good as BG2.

[Korusus]

Sidney wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

Sometimes I feel like the only person in the world who thinks DA2 was better than DA:O in almost every respect. I hope DA3 emulates DA2 more than DA:O.

The overkill on DA2 has always been more hype than reality. DA2 had some awful short comings but it wasn't as awful as people who whine about it constantly want to try and convince you it is. I suspect if you went back in the DAO forums you'd have a lot of the same people telling you how it wasn't as good as BG2.

It wasn't as good as BG2.  BG2 > DA:O >>> Dragon Effect

[Iraea]

Well, back to the original hope thing...I hope that they somehow will find the right 'spirit' again.
Hmmm, difficult to explain...Let's try this: think of DAO, think of the party camp, the music... have it in your ear?
There was a special atmosphere - not only in the party camp, but during the whole game.
Another example: Leliana singing after the mission to recruit the Dalish. In principle there is no real reason or need for this. You can like the song or not.But seeing that the developers invested effort to add it: a cut scene, the music, the lyrics - that felt special.
I actually liked DA2, it was fun. But it felt more like a bunch of casual little missions connected to each other, 20 minutes here, 2 hours there. All interaction felt kind of rushed: 'Recruitment'... 'Personal favor'... 'Talk to'... 'Do this, do that'... bang, butterfingers... End of Act. Next one. Repeat.
Same goes for the companions. I wouldn' say that DA2 had weaker characters, may be even quite the opposite.
But: in DAO dialogues and the backgrounds of the people seemed to have more weight and came together naturally. It allowed you to reflect on the information you learned and all the things going on.
DAO gave more 'epicness'.
So I hope that DA3 will catch more of the DAO feeling.

Modifié par Iraea, 12 novembre 2012 - 02:00 .

[The Elder King]

Corto81 wrote...

I think DA3 will be final nail in the coffin of the franchise.

The vast majority of the RPG audience, the crowd Bioware grew big on, will just move on to deeper and better RPGs.

It's not only visually fantastic games like Skyrim, WItcher2 or Dark Souls, it's the isometric games coming back - Project Eternity, BG:EE, etc.

People want deep, quality RPGs.
Not wannabe-action-adventure dressed up pretty.

Origins was a phenomenal game, critically acclaimed and it sold great.

Yet, DA3 chooses to stick with most of the stuff that made DA2 such an inferior product (lack of customization, voiced protagonist that limits funds and time and also takes away from RP, etc etc.).

Thanks for the info. Do you have a source for this, or it's just pointless speculation?
So far the only info that could be related to customization that is confirmed is the lack of race options. That could limit customization, and doesn't mean there'll be no customization.
Other than that, there's nothing sure about customization. We had info about companion customization's concept, which if realized as they said would lead to a similar result of what we had in DAO, and an improvment from DA2.
Of course, they could implement a system which is vastly different from the concept and only a little better than DA2. But we have no proof about that, and the developers said that they want to do something different.
I wasn't too fond of DA2, and I have doubts myself that DAI will be similar to DAO (though I'd like to point out that this doesn't mean it'll be a bad game or bad RPG), but you have no videos, articles, developers's posts to say that there'll be no customization in DAI. Because other than the lack of race option (which couldn't lead alone to say there'll be no customization) we don't know nothing about DAI's customization.

[The Elder King]

Korusus wrote...



It wasn't as good as BG2.  BG2 > DA:O >>> Dragon Effect

Bioware released Dragon Effect? What's the plot? Shepard is rallying Thedas races against the archdemons, travelling in the world with a ship built with the combination of human and qunari technologies, called the SR-1 Ayesleigh?

[SpunkyMonkey]

www.youtube.com/watch

3:10 regards the combat gives me slight hope.

However, overall I honestly think that game developers are so petrified of making mistakes now that they go out to appease everyone, and have forgotten what makes a game enjoyable.

This past fortnight I've played through Deus Ex:The Conspiracy and Deus Ex: Human Revolution - apart from the fiddly controls and basic enemy AI the original is head and shoulders above the sequel, and Human Revolution just feels as if it's fallen foul of having to fit too many brackets (i.e. be "free-roaming" to a certain degree to appease Skyrim fans)

All that seems to be happening nowadays is games developers covering the basics of what people "want" (free-roaming, GOW cover based combat or whatever etc.) , then hyping the game up so boatloads sell at pre-order regardless of quality, then boat loads of fans boys don't accept any critisism and defend the games no matter how bad it is, and then those developers seeing a combined result of high sales figures and "happy" said fanboys so then going on to make another poor game based on the same principles that got them such a "successful" result this time round.

Honestly, why does a game like DA have to even be considering an open world/Skyrim based setting/influence?

We need to break the cycle and own up to what is poor. DA:2 was dire - truly dire. Most of the game I spent feeling as if I was running errands or doing a chore - that is NOT the purpose of a peice of entertainment media. Character interaction, story and tactical combat should be the core basis for DA:3 - instead we're hearing about open worlds and voiced protagonists *facepalm*

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 12 novembre 2012 - 03:22 .

[AlexJK]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

This past fortnight I've played through Deus Ex:The Conspiracy and Deus Ex: Human Revolution - apart from the fiddly controls and basic enemy AI the original is head and shoulders above the sequel, and Human Revolution just feels as if it's fallen foul of having to fit too many brackets (i.e. be "free-roaming" to a certain degree to appease Skyrim fans)

Which part of HR feels like "free-roaming"? It's got very similar design parameters to the original Deus Ex...

Honestly, why does a game like DA have to even be considering an open world/Skyrim based setting/influence?

They're not? The devs have said that they're looking at Skyrim as an example of a successful RPG (as you would, right?), and they've also mentioned that DA3 will likely have larger and more explorable areas than Origins/DA2. They have also said that it won't be a free-roaming game...

[SpunkyMonkey]

AlexJK wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

This past fortnight I've played through Deus Ex:The Conspiracy and Deus Ex: Human Revolution - apart from the fiddly controls and basic enemy AI the original is head and shoulders above the sequel, and Human Revolution just feels as if it's fallen foul of having to fit too many brackets (i.e. be "free-roaming" to a certain degree to appease Skyrim fans)

Which part of HR feels like "free-roaming"? It's got very similar design parameters to the original Deus Ex...

Honestly, why does a game like DA have to even be considering an open world/Skyrim based setting/influence?

They're not? The devs have said that they're looking at Skyrim as an example of a successful RPG (as you would, right?), and they've also mentioned that DA3 will likely have larger and more explorable areas than Origins/DA2. They have also said that it won't be a free-roaming game...

The original Deus Ex is way more Linear than HR - it may have a similar design but HR's city hubs are larger and more tedious than the originals. Because of this the original flowed far better and there were more linear missions away from cities etc. HR is not a "Free-roaming" game obviously, but it seems as if they've given the player too much space to wander around in, and because of this it makes the game drag.

With reagrds Skyrim here.....

www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/12/dragon-age-3/

...it says "it’s also gonna have a lot of things I think players are gonna find compelling from some of the games that are out now that are doing really well with more of an open world feel,”

A game like DA doesn't, in any way shape or form, need to be remotely open world. It's a story driven RPG and the best of those have always had a main quest with several side-quests thrown in. Wandering round just slows games like this down, hence why the likes of Kingdom of Amalur and Skyrim are so painfully slow and uninteresting - if the main plot stays untouched for too long you lose interest.

I understand that Bioware may be only touching on the open world aspect of it, but I just feel that it's not an aspect they even have to consider.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 12 novembre 2012 - 03:38 .

[The Hierophant]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

With reagrds Skyrim here.....

www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/12/dragon-age-3/

...it says "it’s also gonna have a lot of things I think players are gonna find compelling from some of the games that are out now that are doing really well with more of an open world feel,”

A game like DA doesn't, in any way shape or form, need to be remotely open world. It's a story driven RPG and the best of those have always had a main quest with several side-quests thrown in. Wandering round just slows games like this down, hence why the likes of Kingdom of Amalur and Skyrim are so painfully slow and uninteresting - if the main plot stays untouched for too long you lose interest.

I understand that Bioware may be only touching on the open world aspect of it, but I just feel that it's not an aspect they even have to consider.

I disagree with your assessment on the open world aspect of games like Skyrim as exploring is not mandatory and you can barrel down the main questline with few detours. Exploration like roleplaying, over leveling, exploit abusing and meta gaming are mostly up to the player themselves which creates different experiences in terms of the game's length, and density. 

Plus given the nature of Da3's story/conflict it only seems natural for the devs to expand on the size of the maps.

[SpunkyMonkey]

The Hierophant wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

With reagrds Skyrim here.....

www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/12/dragon-age-3/

...it says "it’s also gonna have a lot of things I think players are gonna find compelling from some of the games that are out now that are doing really well with more of an open world feel,”

A game like DA doesn't, in any way shape or form, need to be remotely open world. It's a story driven RPG and the best of those have always had a main quest with several side-quests thrown in. Wandering round just slows games like this down, hence why the likes of Kingdom of Amalur and Skyrim are so painfully slow and uninteresting - if the main plot stays untouched for too long you lose interest.

I understand that Bioware may be only touching on the open world aspect of it, but I just feel that it's not an aspect they even have to consider.

I disagree with your assessment on the open world aspect of games like Skyrim as exploring is not mandatory and you can barrel down the main questline with few detours. Exploration like roleplaying, over leveling, exploit abusing and meta gaming are mostly up to the player themselves which creates different experiences in terms of the game's length, and density. 

Plus given the nature of Da3's story/conflict it only seems natural for the devs to expand on the size of the maps.

I just think most people play a game through 1st time and try and see & do as much as they can. Most of the time they get side-tracked from the main quest and this waters-down the whole RPG experience. I'm only speaking from personal experience & friends, but to have to be discaplined to get the best out of a game just seems silly.

Larger maps and a touch of open-worldness might not hurt, but again I just don't see why DA needs that. Would BG2 or DA:O been any better for it?

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 12 novembre 2012 - 04:19 .

[Bfler]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Wandering round just slows games like this down, hence why the likes of Kingdom of Amalur and Skyrim are so painfully slow and uninteresting - if the main plot stays untouched for too long you lose interest. 

Hm, I disagree. For me, exploring an open world with all of it's little secrets and quests is much more interesting than to follow a linear path. I can do what I want and when I want.

[SpunkyMonkey]

Bfler wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Wandering round just slows games like this down, hence why the likes of Kingdom of Amalur and Skyrim are so painfully slow and uninteresting - if the main plot stays untouched for too long you lose interest. 

Hm, I disagree. For me, exploring an open world with all of it's little secrets and quests is much more interesting than to follow a linear path. I can do what I want and when I want.

I love that aspect of things, but in Skyrim & KOA:R it became a repetative chore and it didn't actually feel as if you were exporing, it felt as if you were systematically completing work-tasks.

Secrets tucked away, hidden maps and treasure - that's all great stuff! Skyrim however just felt like a souless, empty cut and paste job though and I like my secrets and surprises to come out of being clever, noticing parts of the map or environment that look suspicious, or by solving a puzzle of somekind - not just trudging through a cut and paste environment.

What's that over there? A random mirror in my house which looks like an Eluvian Mirror? Whats this in my inventory, an ancient Elven book? Let me try using that book in front of that mirror.......that's how I'd like to discover another map or treasure, by actually role-playing, not by simply wondering through another forest.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 12 novembre 2012 - 04:28 .

[SilentK]

clennon8 wrote...

Sometimes I feel like the only person in the world who thinks DA2 was better than DA:O in almost every respect. I hope DA3 emulates DA2 more than DA:O.

You're not alone    :happy:    I also prefer DAII to DA:O.

Not that I dislike DA:O, I just find it difficult to finish a new Warden, but start a new Hawke and keep playing repeatedly. I look forward to DAIII very very much     

[The Hierophant]

I just think most people play a game through 1st time and try and see & do as much as they can. Most of the time they get side-tracked from the main quest and this waters-down the whole RPG experience. I'm only speaking from personal experience & friends, but to have to be discaplined to get the best out of a game just seems silly.

Sidetracking doesn't necessarily water down the experience as it can lengthen it /pad it out, with rare or powerful weaponry , armor, clothing, ingredients, spell tomes, Word Walls(shouts)  being potential rewards for exploring.

Larger maps and a touch of open-worldness might not hurt, but again I just don't see why DA needs that. Would BG2 or DA:O been any better for it?

In proportion to character models i thought BG2's locales were big enough, and that DAO had more of it in contrast to DA2.  DA2 got tedious quick when you had to return to the linear maps like the Wounded Coast/Sundermount/Bone Pit for over half of a dozen questlines each in one act alone due to the game lacking in unique environments. Now that i think about it, the main problem i have with the environments in Bio's recent games is the linearity of their maps.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 12 novembre 2012 - 05:30 .

[YourFunnyUncle]

While DA II had many well-documented failings, what I really loved was the state in which the game left Thedas. With the world plunged into political turmoil involving several factions, there's plenty of scope for for an expansive and interesting game in part 3. It remains to be seen what they come up with, but I for one do still have hope.

[Realmzmaster]

I keep hearing that Dragon Age was suppose to be the spiritual successor to BG. This is right up there in terms of marketing hype with the Awesome button. DAO was not imho the spiritual successor to BG2. Not even close. DAO stripped out a lot of the parts of BG2 that I personally liked and added parts that bordered on the inane.

DAO has instant mana and health regeneration, weapons and armor that does not degrade, non-deaths (unconsciousness) of companions. Stealth that is more like invisibility than real stealth. An endless supply of arrows. Far too many set encounter battles where reinforcements are non-existent. No random encounters with enemies or creatures when the party is battered or beaten (because there is instant health and mana regeneration). No real multi-classing.
And I like DAO.

That spiritual successor marketing hype can be retired and should have never been used for all I care.
I also like DA2 for what it did. I had fun with both games. I want a magic system like Wizardry where I controlled not just what spell to use but the power level. I want the chance for a spell to misfire and strike the party or fizzle and here the wizard go Oops sorry guys.

I keep hearing the games Skyrim, Witcher 2 come up. I have my opinion on all of them and yes I have played them. The Witcher 2 combat is sadly lacking in my opinion. Skyrim has no story and the combat is only slightly better than the Witcher 2.

I also like the way the controls on the PC work in Dragon Age. Bioware actually knows how to program a game to use only the mouse and have been doing it for years.
Bethesda use to know how to do that but after Daggerfall got amnesia. I can only assume the CDProjectK does not care since they abandoned it when they developed the Red Engine for Witcher 2. The Aurora engine had mouse control of the game, but I remember now that engine was developed by Bioware.

I have hope for DA3 because Bioware has not let me down. I had fun with DAO and DA2. I did not have fun with Skyrim or Witcher 2. I do not care how deep the plot is or how much I can explore if I am not having fun.
The last Elder Scroll game I had fun with was Morrowind, but it also had a better story than the subsequent games.
Everything I voice here is my opinion, but YMMV.

[Persephone]

Filament wrote...

DA2 haters would be a more descriptive term than Origins fans. Origins fans includes most if not all DA2 fans.

Yeah, THIS.

There are even FREAKS like me who loved both games.

Oh the humanity!

[Bryy_Miller]

simfamSP wrote...
Some people will be dissapointed in Project Eternity if they keep thinking that way

I think a lot of people will be disappointed in a lot of Kickstarter games. There's so much talk about them bringing back the 1980s and 1990s, that I feel a lot will be surprised by how modern these games are going to be.

[budzai]

well, I have no hope... DA2 was a terrible game... the worst Bioware game of all time... even ME3 was 10 times better... I reached Kirkwall and that's it... it just so boring and feels like ****...

Modifié par budzai, 12 novembre 2012 - 07:12 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Persephone wrote...

Filament wrote...

DA2 haters would be a more descriptive term than Origins fans. Origins fans includes most if not all DA2 fans.

Yeah, THIS.

There are even FREAKS like me who loved both games.

Oh the humanity!

^ The above people are highly intelligent and insightful.

[budzai]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Filament wrote...

DA2 haters would be a more descriptive term than Origins fans. Origins fans includes most if not all DA2 fans.

Yeah, THIS.

There are even FREAKS like me who loved both games.

Oh the humanity!

^ The above people are highly intelligent and insightful.

why? because (s)he liked both game? ^^ LOL

[nightscrawl]

BasilKarlo wrote...

Except it doesn't mean a lot of things. No one expected Origins to just be one of those things after hearing it was the spiritual successor to BG.

"No one" huh? You can speak for every single person who played BG? You completely ignored all of Plaintiff's examples because they did not apply to you. Games, in fact most entertainment, mean different things to different people, and those people get different things out of it. I'm sure there are people who played all three games (BG, DAO, DA2) and weren't satisfied with any of them, missing some component that they felt was necessary for their enjoyment. Likewise, there are probably people who did enjoy all three games.

So feel free to use "I," "me," "myself," and so forth, but do not presume you speak for EVERYONE.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 12 novembre 2012 - 07:26 .

[Mark of the Dragon]

Mass Effect 3 was a good game 97% of the time. DA2 wasnt the best but it could have been worse. I think that it sounds like the DA team learned from there mistakes.