17 réponses à ce sujet

[Vendetta543]

Does Alistair forgive the Warden if he lets Loghain live by the time of Awakening? He didn't seem overtly hostile during Awakening and he seemed glad to hear about him coming back in DAII.

On an unrelated note, can I get the "Finding Nathaniel quest" if I get Enduring Vigil, leave him in the Keep, and save Amaranthine?

[G_Admiral_Thrawn]

To answer your first question, I don't know... I give Loghain the traitor's death he deserves every time.

To your second, the answer is no, because of atleast one bad flag. If you look at the codex for those who remained at Vigil's Keep, it says they died, even if the epilogue says differently, and that also applies to Nathaniel for that DA2 quest.

[Vendetta543]

Then how come Nathaniel didn't comment on Anders being dead despite the fact that I let him stay in the keep? The badly burned mage dialogue never triggered and he acted as if Anders never died.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

If Loghain does the Ultimate Sacrifice, Alistair forgives you before the epilogue. Otherwise, I'm not entirely sure when it happens.

[Corker]

Well, if you're up for some DA2 spoilers...








Alistair-married-to-Anora will indeed stick around and speak to you in the epilogue whether Loghain lives or doesn't. Alistair-not-married-to-Anora ends up a sobbing drunk in the Hanged Man in Kirkwall, until Bann Teagan arrives to save him/recruit him as a pawn, dealer's option on motivation.

[Vendetta543]

I know that:) I'm in Awakening and did the Dark Ritual, so both Loghain and Alistair are alive. At no point in Awakening or DAII did he seem hostile to the Warden, so I'm wandering if he just let it go.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Per David Gaider, at the end of DA:O at least there is still bad blood between the PC and Alistair if you spared Loghain.

By the time of Awakening though? I'm only guessing, mind you, but I suspect Alistair holds a grudge. He'll be politically polite to the PC, but you're not his friend anymore. His grudge against Loghain was one thing, but a grudge against a 'friend' who turned against him is something else. As the saying goes, it's easier to forgive an enemy than to forgive a friend. Particularly true for those who don't have too many friends, like Alistair.

By DA2? *shrug* Ask the devs I suppose

[TEWR]

Per David Gaider, at the end of DA:O at least there is still bad blood between the PC and Alistair if you spared Loghain.

Really? Where was that stated? I mean, Alistair isn't too thrilled at my PCs and that's evident, but it seemed based on his dialogue that he wasn't going to remain pissed at the Warden. In fact, he says "We can talk later, if you want" to my PCs.

If there was some bad blood still between them, I'd imagine he'd still be acting like he did after I made the decision. Yelling, screaming, etc.

For the OP's question, I'd imagine he forgives the Warden later on as he acknowledges that what Duncan truly would've cared about is that the Blight's over in the epilogue ceremony.

And in Awakening, he's tempted to toss the throne aside and go adventuring with the Warden again if the right option is chosen, but tells you that he can't due to responsibilities for the state. So I'd imagine that he wants to be at your side again and travel with you -- and so he's forgiven you.

By DAII, they seem to be definite friends again, despite how Alistair is still upset at how Loghain is still alive (if he is, in fact, still alive that is).

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 novembre 2012 - 03:30 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Per David Gaider, at the end of DA:O at least there is still bad blood between the PC and Alistair if you spared Loghain.

Really? Where was that stated? I mean, Alistair isn't too thrilled at my PCs and that's evident, but it seemed based on his dialogue that he wasn't going to remain pissed at the Warden. In fact, he says "We can talk later, if you want" to my PCs.

If there was some bad blood still between them, I'd imagine he'd still be acting like he did after I made the decision. Yelling, screaming, etc.

I dunno. I think "bad blood", in this case, refers to Alistair still not being completely over it.

[Vendetta543]

I did pick the option to have him admit to wanting to go back to adventuring. I don't know if it was the VA's delivery or just me imagining things, but he seemed extremely sarcastic when he said he wanted to go back to 'Following me around all day". Also, I don't think he's the type to pretend to be friendly if he hates someone. He doesn't act polite or kind during the epilogue and it was a political event.

His cameo in DAII pretty much solidifies that at the very least he's not hostile to the Warden (He/She has a name, you know!), but whether this means he forgives him/her is unknown to me. Being polite isn't the same as being joking/friendly to someone you hate.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Vendetta543 wrote...

Being polite isn't the same as being joking/friendly to someone you hate.

Yeah, but what I'm saying is that I don't know if "bad blood" requires outright hatred. My impression is that Alistair's thinking of all the good times, weighing it against that one decision, and has mostly though not entirely forgiven the Warden. (Of course if he's getting smashed in Kirkwall, that kind of stops that thought process from happening.)

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Triple post.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 12 novembre 2012 - 07:41 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I HATE my internet connection sometimes.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 12 novembre 2012 - 07:41 .

[Corker]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Per David Gaider, at the end of DA:O at least there is still bad blood between the PC and Alistair if you spared Loghain.

Really? Where was that stated? I mean, Alistair isn't too thrilled at my PCs and that's evident, but it seemed based on his dialogue that he wasn't going to remain pissed at the Warden. In fact, he says "We can talk later, if you want" to my PCs.

I'll second SoLD on the existence of said information, although my Google-fu isn't turning it up atm.  Too many threads with Alistair and Loghain in them.

It was one of those forum things, where someone asked this exact question sometime in 2010, because Alistair does sound pretty chill in the epilogue and Internet Person was wondering if all was simpatico between them. And DG chimed in to say, Not so much.

But if you really want to know, you can Google for various combinations of "Alistair Loghain spared David Gaider epilogue" and see if you can find it.

EDIT: A post from that era with forumites saying pretty much the same things. Still not turning up the DG quote that put them all more or less on the same page.  It really has come up before, I promise.

Modifié par Corker, 13 novembre 2012 - 01:01 .

[Vendetta543]

When it comes down to it, I'm just wondering if he and the PC ever become friends again. A lot of friend's have bad blood with each other, but it doesn't stop them from still looking out and caring for one another. It seems harsh (though understandable) that their friendship is completely destroyed considering you can end the game with giving him tons of gifts, his mother's old amulet, going out of your way to save Connor and Bit- I mean, Isolde, and giving him Duncan's shield.

Besides, Loghain getting shipped to Orlais very much beats out heroic sacrifice:p I literally couldn't stop laughing when I heard him say he was going to get shipped off to stinky cheese land, most likely under the command of the Gray Wardens he told to ****** off during the border:D I just hope Empress Celene doesn't find him.

[emeraldtrader]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Per David Gaider, at the end of DA:O at least there is still bad blood between the PC and Alistair if you spared Loghain.

Really? Where was that stated? I mean, Alistair isn't too thrilled at my PCs and that's evident, but it seemed based on his dialogue that he wasn't going to remain pissed at the Warden. In fact, he says "We can talk later, if you want" to my PCs.

If there was some bad blood still between them, I'd imagine he'd still be acting like he did after I made the decision. Yelling, screaming, etc.

I dunno. I think "bad blood", in this case, refers to Alistair still not being completely over it.

Bad Blood!

[mousestalker]

emeraldtrader wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Per David Gaider, at the end of DA:O at least there is still bad blood between the PC and Alistair if you spared Loghain.

Really? Where was that stated? I mean, Alistair isn't too thrilled at my PCs and that's evident, but it seemed based on his dialogue that he wasn't going to remain pissed at the Warden. In fact, he says "We can talk later, if you want" to my PCs.

If there was some bad blood still between them, I'd imagine he'd still be acting like he did after I made the decision. Yelling, screaming, etc.

I dunno. I think "bad blood", in this case, refers to Alistair still not being completely over it.

Bad Blood!

Bad blood, really?

Modifié par mousestalker, 13 novembre 2012 - 05:05 .

[emeraldtrader]

mousestalker wrote...

emeraldtrader wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Per David Gaider, at the end of DA:O at least there is still bad blood between the PC and Alistair if you spared Loghain.

Really? Where was that stated? I mean, Alistair isn't too thrilled at my PCs and that's evident, but it seemed based on his dialogue that he wasn't going to remain pissed at the Warden. In fact, he says "We can talk later, if you want" to my PCs.

If there was some bad blood still between them, I'd imagine he'd still be acting like he did after I made the decision. Yelling, screaming, etc.

I dunno. I think "bad blood", in this case, refers to Alistair still not being completely over it.

Bad Blood!

Bad blood, really?

ok ...tainted blood             

Modifié par emeraldtrader, 14 novembre 2012 - 04:07 .