407 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Maria Caliban wrote...

As I said earlier, it's from the Dragon Age PnP book. It isn't 'word of god.'

I could swear David Gaider used it once long ago in some form of interview, panel, web video, or some such.

[Kail Ashton]

*bangs head to desk* this is still a thing? really?? REALLY???? fine! i guess i'll go cure cancer then while you talk about the politically correct term for a race of horned giants in a mediocre video game series

[Urzon]

Kail Ashton wrote...

or go fist fight the bioware devs, whichever

If someone does do that, they have to do it Kill Bill style. That includes: Mary Kirby having a criminal organization of super fans at her beck and call (along with an OP Japanese school girl bodyguard), Chris Priestly burying you alive in the desert, and David Gaider armed with a Hanzo sword and a fistful of truth serum darts.

Oh, and you can only use the "Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique" once.

Modifié par Urzon, 16 novembre 2012 - 08:06 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Language is naturally ambiguous. This problem is solved with a little thing called context.

That something occurs naturally does not make the occurence desirable.

We can do better.

[Sylvius the Mad]

DreGregoire wrote...

xsdob wrote...

The qunari do not consider the vashoth to be the same race anymore, since their religion is a much bigger identifier to them than their race is now.

Quoted for truthiness

It might have truthiness, but what it lacks is relevance.

What something is called does not change what it is.

The Jewish comparison is apt, and the way they do it is just as annoying.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

If this was the real world we'd call them "purplies"

[Foolsfolly]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Apparently the one where you call a race a completely different name that's never used in-game or novels or comics. Just in one codex... if this thread's to be believed. I still don't see it.

I've looked under qun, qunari, tal-vashoth, and saarbas and still no kossith. At this point I believe the term exists in that space the Fex do.... in Word of God because we haven't seen or heard of them yet in-game.

As I said earlier, it's from the Dragon Age PnP book. It isn't 'word of god.'

It's rather obvious if you've read the thread that 'god' doesn't call them kossith.

It's from a PnP book?

Huh.

[Todd23]

David Gaider wrote...

Lucia69 wrote...
The difficulty stems from the fact that when we're first introduced to the word 'qunari', we thought it designated the race specifically. Then we learnt that it refers to all the followers of the Qun, including humans and elves, so now it seems to us (in my opinion) like we need another term to talk exclusively about the race. That's why you see the word Kossith tossed around so much, to fill in the blank.

Oh, I understand why. But you don't need another term. That's what we've said-- repeatedly.

Someone says "well, what do you call them in your documents?" Qunari. "No, what do you call the horned people, the race?" Qunari. "And the followers of the Qun?" Qunari... or, alternatively, 'followers of the Qun'. "But what about the horned people who aren't followers of the Qun?" Tal'Vashoth. "All of them?" Yes. "But that's what they call themselves... what do we call them both as a group?" Qunari. "But that's confusing!" Err... no. No, it's really not. Not unless you're trying to be pedantic.

Which, clearly some people really are. So... whatever? Call them floating cheese wheels, if that makes you happy. We'll just be referring to them in-game by their proper names. Don't know how we went from us saying "that's not an accurate term" to "OMG the writers get angry whenever it's mentioned! It's forbidden!" Kind of regret ever mentioning their former name at all, now.

But whenever I've told people I wanted to be a kossith in later games they've understood.  I don't necessarily want to be a follower of the qun, though I wouldn't hate that option.  I'm going to quote Cassandra in MotA:  "The Qunari are not a race, they are a religion".

[Heimdall]

The Jewish analogy is apt but it doesn't really make it any less frustrating or confusing for those of us that dislike ambiguous labels.

[Fawx9]

Lord Aesir wrote...

The Jewish analogy is apt but it doesn't really make it any less frustrating or confusing for those of us that dislike ambiguous labels.

Not really, they are a nation of people, not a race by themselves(By this I mean you don't have humans and those that are jewish, you have jewish humans).

Whereas here the big grey horned people are Qunari or groups that don't follow the qun/oppose them. Which is the main problem I guess. We have one word that describes not only a race, but a religion/nation of that race and a subset of its people. All the while having other names for the race that don't take part in the religion.


So Sten is a Qunari, part of those that follow the Qun (Qunari), and is a Qunari

Not to be confused with this elf who is a Viddathari, part of those that follow the Qun (Qunari) and is an Elf

Nor this other grey skinned man who is Vashoth, not part of those that follow the Qun (Qunari), and is a Qunari.

It just get's silly. I mean when I ask which of these is a Qunari, do you a) name all of them, the two of the race c) Sten and the elf or d)  just Sten.

[Han Shot First]

When I first visited the DA3 forums I was confused by thread titles with the word 'Kossith' in it. Initially I thought people were talking about a new race that was going to be in DA3, until I saw that someone referred to Sten as a 'Kossith.'

When and where was the term Kossith introduced?

[legbamel]

Fawx9 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
The Jewish analogy is apt but it doesn't really make it any less frustrating or confusing for those of us that dislike ambiguous labels.

Not really, they are a nation of people, not a race by themselves(By this I mean you don't have humans and those that are jewish, you have jewish humans).

Whereas here the big grey horned people are Qunari or groups that don't follow the qun/oppose them. Which is the main problem I guess. We have one word that describes not only a race, but a religion/nation of that race and a subset of its people. All the while having other names for the race that don't take part in the religion.

So Sten is a Qunari, part of those that follow the Qun (Qunari), and is a Qunari

Not to be confused with this elf who is a Viddathari, part of those that follow the Qun (Qunari) and is an Elf

Nor this other grey skinned man who is Vashoth, not part of those that follow the Qun (Qunari), and is a Qunari.

It just get's silly. I mean when I ask which of these is a Qunari, do you a) name all of them, the two of the race c) Sten and the elf or d)  just Sten.

If Jewish people weren't human they'd be a different species, not a different race.  I think that's part of the problem with comparing the different races in Thedas to humans.  It seems more like elves, dwarves, qunari, and humans--and maybe mages, as well--are closely-related species (some more or less so, apparently) than they are what we would really consider races.  That means that racial analogies don't really work well because the differences are deeper than mere ethnicity.

[Wulfram]

How about "ox-men"? It's used in universe, it's meaning is fairly intuitive and it would be understood to refer to race not religion.

On the con side, it seems to be intended as an insult.

[Han Shot First]

Wulfram wrote...

How about "ox-men"? It's used in universe, it's meaning is fairly intuitive and it would be understood to refer to race not religion.

On the con side, it seems to be intended as an insult.

I'd love to see Ox-Men get more use in game, though of course by humans and non-Qunari elves. It does seem to be a bit of a pejorative.

[CaptainBlackGold]

Thank you Fawx9 - you summarized my take on this brilliantly. I am sure that Mr. G must be frustrated with all of us since he seems to think this is all self-evident. But a term that refers both to a race and a religion, without being able to distinguish between them when they differ is about as clear to me as mud.

I wonder if there is something coming up in the next game, where this "distinction" becomes a plot point or something?

Personally, I intend on referring to the giant horned (except when they are not) gray skinned creatures as "Floating Cheese Wheels" (as per Mr. G's recommendation) and followers of a particular aggressive philosophy as "Qunari."

So does anyone think we'll get a Floating Cheese Wheel as as LI?

Leaves thread quickly...

[StarcloudSWG]

Heh. It would be a fascinating window into what domestic life is like with the ox-men under the Qun. Do they arrange marriages like they arrange for children to follow roles/occupations? Is it left up to the individual? Does marriage require a sanction from the Ariqun?

For that matter, is it possible to disagree with a *part* of the Qun as interpreted by the Ariqun, and still follow the rest? Would such a person still be considered Qunari?

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 17 novembre 2012 - 01:04 .

[Saberchic]

Yeah.... so I'm going to keep calling them "kossith."

When I am talking about the race and not referring to the religion, it makes sense. All of the horned people are that race whether they are qunari or Tal Vashoth (or special like Sten).

[PinkysPain]

David Gaider wrote...
If we ever feel the need to introduce "Qunari from across the sea", then they'll likely be called something else entirely.

I was not suggesting otherwise, I just think that you've already planned things out a bit further and that there are other parts of the race which aren't from Boston ... and that you need a name for the collective.

I still think there's a 50:50 chance you already have and it's Kossith ... it's just so hard to have any other explanation for a quote like this :

It drives me nuts when people use "Kossith" to refer to Qunari and Tal-vashoth. It's like using "****** Sapien" just for people from Boston.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 18 novembre 2012 - 01:20 .

[xsdob]

So david's answering of these questions resolved nothing and accomplished nothing.

I laughed to that, I'll call the horned none qunari Vashoth, since it's actually something in the lore.

[Nightdragon8]

so basicly.... the name got leaked people started useing it devs got mad, said your useing it wrong, and now are saying "We dont like you useing that name so we are going to make it so everyone is wrong"

[Urzon]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

Heh. It would be a fascinating window into what domestic life is like with the ox-men under the Qun. Do they arrange marriages like they arrange for children to follow roles/occupations? Is it left up to the individual? Does marriage require a sanction from the Ariqun?

For that matter, is it possible to disagree with a *part* of the Qun as interpreted by the Ariqun, and still follow the rest? Would such a person still be considered Qunari?

The Qunari don't have marriages. They have more of a breeding programs. I'd imagine they pull a person in for an evaluation every couple of years, to measure their different strengths and weaknesses (physical strength, endurance, intelligence, charisma, willpower, and etc.). Then they set up breeding partners that would hopefully strengthen positive traits, while also weakening negative ones.

Though i do have a question... Is their breeding program active full time, or is it more of a biannual or annual type of thing?

*On a side note, the Qunari must be excellent record keepers. It would be mind boggling to manage that amount of paperwork daily. It hard enough to take a census in this day and age, but to keep track of their characteristics and manage their sex life?

As for the bolded. I could be wrong on this matter, since my memory is a bit scetchy, but i think i remember Tallis saying something like the Ben-Hassrath debate the meaning of the Qun sometimes. Like i said though, I could be wrong.

[StarcloudSWG]

The Ben-Hassrath are likely part of the Ariqun's branch of Qunari society. They don't make things or labor to produce resources, and they aren't part of the military. They're a combination of law enforcement, spies, and troubleshooters. So it's very likely they are allowed to debate the meaning of the Qun as it applies to a situation, without getting strange looks from other Qunari.

[CuriousArtemis]

Urzon wrote...

The Qunari don't have marriages. They have more of a breeding programs. I'd imagine they pull a person in for an evaluation every couple of years, to measure their different strengths and weaknesses (physical strength, endurance, intelligence, charisma, willpower, and etc.). Then they set up breeding partners that would hopefully strengthen positive traits, while also weakening negative ones.

Though i do have a question... Is their breeding program active full time, or is it more of a biannual or annual type of thing?

This makes me wonder. Are the qunari asexual? Or do they perhaps go into "heat" like some animals, so they're only interested in sex during these special occasions? Or are they just like humans, dwarves, and elves, and are (with a few exceptions) sexual beings all the time? If it's the last, then there have to be some who break the law and have sex when they're not supposed to. I wonder what happens to such deviants. I wonder what would happen to a qunari woman who became pregnant when she wasn't supposed to.

Modifié par motomotogirl, 18 novembre 2012 - 07:54 .