407 réponses à ce sujet

[xsdob]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

so basicly.... the name got leaked people started useing it devs got mad, said your useing it wrong, and now are saying "We dont like you useing that name so we are going to make it so everyone is wrong"

What leak? Show me the leak outside of the dnd book.

[Statulos]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Firky wrote...

So, if qunari just see horns as natural variation, like hair, why do saarebas -es have theirs cut off?

Well, Ketojan and the Redemption saarebas and the saarebas model in DA2. (Although not concept art. Maybe.)

Many of the hornless Qunari wind up in the Ben Hassrath, so culturally, Qunari associate not having horns with being imposing or scary. Saarebas have their horns cut as a warning, "This guy is dangerous." It's also the reason Tal Vashoth often cut off their own horns -- they think it makes them look tougher.

I can see also a potential refusal to Qunari society for Tal Vashoth in cutting their horns in the same way hippies wore colorful clothing and long hair to present themselves as departed as possible to the olive green uniforms and short hair of the military.

And that leads me to the issue of language. Tal Vashoth adopt personal names instead of titles as the Qunari. But we also knew that Qunaris have personal names given, they are simply not used because those names do not represent who they are (their role in society, that is). That said, do Qunari use those names with people they are close to? I mean, Qunari love and care for others as much as anyone, so besides affectionate terms such as kadan, do they use other linguistic terms or non-linguistic manners (I don´t know, hugs, kisses, cooking breakfast...) to show care, closeness and appreciation?

[PinkysPain]

xsdob wrote...
What leak? Show me the leak outside of the dnd book.

It's in the RPG book as well? Didn't know that. The original source on this forum was the DA2 official guide.

For an obscure term they made up to be used by clergy it sure seemed to have made an expression on the outside writers which had access to their notes

Modifié par PinkysPain, 19 novembre 2012 - 12:10 .

[Urzon]

motomotogirl wrote...

This makes me wonder. Are the qunari asexual? Or do they perhaps go into "heat" like some animals, so they're only interested in sex during these special occasions? Or are they just like humans, dwarves, and elves, and are (with a few exceptions) sexual beings all the time? If it's the last, then there have to be some who break the law and have sex when they're not supposed to. I wonder what happens to such deviants. I wonder what would happen to a qunari woman who became pregnant when she wasn't supposed to.

I had to find the quote from Mary Kirby...

Qunari don't generally associate mating with love. They feel love. They have friends. They form emotional bonds with one another. They just don't sleep with each other to express it. And if they do, they get re-educated by the Ben-Hassrath. So, y'know, not exactly encouragement there.

If such a thing occurred and produced a child, the same thing would happen to the offspring as happens to all other Qunari offspring: It would be raised by the Tamassrans, evaluated, and assigned a job. Qunari don't waste people unnecessarily.

I wouldn't say they were asexual per say. The Qunari (the race) just have generations upon generations of breeding and cultural influence saying, "Breeding outside of Tamassran approve is bad...". Their elven, dwarven, and human brothers and sisters might be a different matter though, even more so the newly converted. They still have their outside cultures influencing them, if only in the slightest.

[WillPF363]

Umm, I had no idea there was any discussion about this at all until recently when I saw someone go into what I considered a pretty condescending lecture about how using Kossith was wrong and an archaic term over on the dragon age wiki. Again, I didn't know that apparently we aren't using that term anymore, but I found a link to this discussion in the Qunari page. I just thought it was interesting that people are now using the "Kossith is wrong!" lecture in the very same way Gaider and Schumacher didn't like people using Kossith in the first place.

Modifié par WillPF363, 18 décembre 2012 - 06:38 .

[Drakereaver]

i think that this is a simple(if a tad confusing) thing: Qunari.humans,elves,dwarves and pretty much evry race in Thedas-is stubborn
Qunari don't strike me as the type to make many racial differences. a dwarf holds to the tenants of the Qun,speaks the language and is culturally the same as Qunari(and most racially charged comments i have heard Qunari say in the games relate to the cultural diffrances of the races,rather then any physical features),they are Qunari in their mind(and as everyone who has ever talked or heard the conversation Sten has about Woman warriors knows,their Philosophy is unbending).as for the rest of Thedas,i don't think that the race/religion difference matters to them so it's simpler to call the grey skinned oxmen ''Qunari''.No other race or ethnicity in Thedas is named after religious tendancies,so why bother?
so simple answers: i believe there is no term differencing between Qunari the people of faith,and Qunari the race because short of scholars (and dragon age lore masters) .because why bother?it would be like finding a special name for apostates with the grey wardens(since they aren't hunted,yet aren't in the Circle of Magi)

[Kradus9]

Qunari remains a religious term. If there isn't an actual word in lore to refer to that race, then the community has to adopt one. It's not a matter of arrogance that people want to see stuff properly defined.

[Mirrman70]

What about people of jewish descent? they say their race and religion is both jewish. and then the ones that say their polish or black or french are just "......" jewish. why can't the horned qunari be both racially and religiously qunari and the others be dwarven qunari, elven qunari etc.

[Nefla]

Mirrman70 wrote...

What about people of jewish descent? they say their race and religion is both jewish. and then the ones that say their polish or black or french are just "......" jewish. why can't the horned qunari be both racially and religiously qunari and the others be dwarven qunari, elven qunari etc.

Ive brought that point up a few times but it's always ignored. People are stubborn and want to have some special word that makes them special hipsters so they refuse to let go of "Kossith" even after being told it's wrong and having Qunari, viddithari, and Tal'Vashoth explained over and over again. They don't understand because they don't want to.

[andy6915]

Posting this everywhere this debate happens. Use Qunari for the race and religion like everyone wants, but use the word "viddathari" for any Qunari who aren't of Sten and Arishok's race. This way we have a distinction between the big giant guys who are Qunari and elven converts and stuff.

[Sifr]

Really, I think they shot themselves in the foot when they decreed Qunari to be the race name.

While I agree with the argument that using Kossith is like referring to an Englishman as an Anglo-Saxon, the point remains that Qunari is just as inaccurate a name for these non-members.

It's like calling a Scottish person nit-picky for not wanting to be called "English". They live in Britain and are part of the United Kingdom with the English, after all, what's the difference?

As an Englishman, trust me, good luck to anyone trying to pull that nonsense with the Scots!

Would it be so hard to simply come up with an actual name for the race that we can use that is neither Qunari, nor Kossith. Call them Alan or Rick for all we care, just something to end this rather tiring argument!

<_<

Modifié par Sifr1449, 01 janvier 2014 - 06:22 .

[Airell]

I have a feeling we are going to spend some time in DA;I learning about the Qunari sense it is a new player race

[Sifr]

MasterScribe wrote...

I'm not an expert (being American), but don't "British" and "Briton" solve this problem?

Except for people in Northern Ireland, of course.

Yes and no. Most Scots still object to being called a Brit, even it's technically accurate. Like English people disliking being called European, which is accurate cause we are in the EU, but don't consider ourselves part of Europe.

Essentially, this is the same thing as every time the Warden and Hawke refer to a Tal-Vashoth as Qunari. What do those characters do... they immediately correct them?

With respect Devs, you're writing characters who are objecting to the very name you are insisting they be called? What sense does that even make?



Hence my belief we need a better name for their race, since at the moment you could substitute "Alan Rickman" and it'd be just as much accurate a species name!

Modifié par Sifr1449, 01 janvier 2014 - 06:49 .

[Rotward]

Mirrman70 wrote...

What about people of jewish descent? they say their race and religion is both jewish. and then the ones that say their polish or black or french are just "......" jewish. why can't the horned qunari be both racially and religiously qunari and the others be dwarven qunari, elven qunari etc.

There are many ways that things could be, all valid. How the terms are used in-game is what counts. We can't call mana "spellpower" and expect people to know what we mean, even if the two terms are synonyms in another context. 

[CARL_DF90]

"The Qunari are not a race, they are a religion." Direct quote from the Dragon Age 2 DLC featuring Tallis (one of my favorite characters).

So it just begs the question of the name of the horned race that gave birth to the Qunari movement. I mean, you have clear cut names for all the other sentient species in Thedas which includes the elves, humans, and dwarves. As far as I'm concerned the term "Kossith" used as the race name for the horned people that started the Qunari movement works and helps to identify them beyond just "Qunari" or "Tal-Vashoth". The only thing this back and forth discussion about the subject causes is confusion. I love the DA devs but really they just need to stop dancing around this subject and just give a clear cut name to the race and call it a day. Everyone will be the better for it.

[Sifr]

Even linguistically, this doesn't make any sense.

Qunari directly translates from Qunlat as "People of the Qun". How can you possibly be a "Person of the Qun"... if you don't qualify or consider yourself as a person who is a follower of the Qun?

[Mirrman70]

CARL_DF90 wrote...

"The Qunari are not a race, they are a religion." Direct quote from the Dragon Age 2 DLC featuring Tallis (one of my favorite characters).

So it just begs the question of the name of the horned race that gave birth to the Qunari movement. I mean, you have clear cut names for all the other sentient species in Thedas which includes the elves, humans, and dwarves. As far as I'm concerned the term "Kossith" used as the race name for the horned people that started the Qunari movement works and helps to identify them beyond just "Qunari" or "Tal-Vashoth". The only thing this back and forth discussion about the subject causes is confusion. I love the DA devs but really they just need to stop dancing around this subject and just give a clear cut name to the race and call it a day. Everyone will be the better for it.

they did. it's Qunari. just how jewish people identify their race as jewish so can you with the Qunari. They themselves have no name for their own race that has been revealed. Unless some horned qunari comes out and says exactly what the name of their race is than it is qunari. Hell it is even stated on the wiki that kossith might not even be the name of one specific race, it could be a term like Fereldan. what if it turns out the first civilization of this species was called Koss or something does that mean they are Kossith or someother word? at the end of the day it is what ever the writers of the game say it is, which is Qunari. suck it up you probably ain't getting an official name for the species anytime soon. any use of the term Kossith is fanon and not canon as even the codex entries mentioning them are obscure.

[Fredward]

Whoever resurrected this anal beast deserves to be gored by a horny qunari.

[Sifr]

Mirrman70 wrote...

they did. it's Qunari. just how jewish people identify their race as jewish so can you with the Qunari. They themselves have no name for their own race that has been revealed. Unless some horned qunari comes out and says exactly what the name of their race is than it is qunari. Hell it is even stated on the wiki that kossith might not even be the name of one specific race, it could be a term like Fereldan. what if it turns out the first civilization of this species was called Koss or something does that mean they are Kossith or someother word? at the end of the day it is what ever the writers of the game say it is, which is Qunari. suck it up you probably ain't getting an official name for the species anytime soon. any use of the term Kossith is fanon and not canon as even the codex entries mentioning them are obscure.

We're not advocating Kossith as the name, only that Qunari shouldn't be used as it's too inaccurate.

The argument of comparing this to being Jewish is a logical fallacy. If you are ethnically Jewish, follow Judaism or consider yourself Jewish, then yes, you are Jewish.

But as has been repeatedly been drilled into us, Qunari is the religion's name, not that of the race itself.

As has been pointed out, there have been multiple in-universe characters of the "Qunari" race who explictly have said they do not consider themelves neither Qunari or Tal-Vashoth. So what are we supposed to call them?!

Why is a person who does not follow the Qun or consider themselves a Qunari... still labelled a Qunari?

It's akin to calling a City Elf a Dalish, because even though they don't follow the old traditions, believe in the Creators, live in the forests, nor consider themselves Dalish... they're still Elves aren't they?!

Modifié par Sifr1449, 01 janvier 2014 - 08:21 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

This thread...

This ****ing thread....

[andy6915]

I'm going to quote stuff from the other thread about the Qunari name debate I got into a bit ago. It explains how the deal about using viddarthi came about.

[quote]Jonathan Seagull wrote...
@Nightdragon - ^That wiki is an excellent source. To mention some key points from that and from dev discussion:

The devs actually have addressed this multiple times. Their story has been straight for quite some time. It is fine if you choose to refer to them as kossith (or whatever other term) in conversation, so long as you 1) don't try to make anyone else refer to them as such; and 2) don't expect to see it reflected in-game or by the devs as a more "correct" term.

Followers of the Qun are known as Qunari. Members of the "grey giant" race are known as Qunari. This is how everyone in Thedas refers to them. If the overlap is confusing, there are phrases like "elven Qunari" to clarify (or viddathari, which is the name for all converts of other races).

To be honest, the vast majority of the time I think that it's relatively easy to understand what people are talking about based on the context of the conversation. In fact, just as an observation, it's pretty much only conversations like this one where I see people treating it as though it's an issue. I very rarely see people confused by the term in the course of regular discussion.
[/quote]

[quote]andy69156915 wrote...
No, we should call them Kossith. Not because it's canon or lore-based but simply because we need a word to refer to the race of giant horned people because Qunari is not merely a race name. Again, we've already met an elven Qunari. Without knowing who she is already, anyone hearing she's a Qunari will picture a tall horned woman and not a petite elf. That kind of confusion is nothing but a headache. So if not Kossith then we need to, as a fanbase or forum, decide on a universal word that we all understand as "the big horned people's species". Kossith is as good as any word and at least is already established, so why not use it? I don't care if it's uncanon or the devs don't like it, we need a way to separate Qunari the species to Qunari the religion.

So tell me. if not Kossith, then what word should we use? And don't say Qunari, that refers to a religion. Oxmen? Refers only to men so I don't really like that term. Giants? Well it sounds cool at least, but they aren't really big enough to be "giant". Horny people? Childish. Grey-skin? Decent, but seems too plain.[/quote]

[quote]hhh89 wrote...
You can call them whatever you want, but the 'Qunari' term refers to both the race and the religion. So if someone calls a member or the race 'qunari' he's not wrong. The term is correct, since Gaider said so.
Again, you can call them whatever you want, the devs don't care. But stop saying that we should call them Kossith or in another term, but not qunari, because you're wrong.
About the Inqusitor, while the devs stated we'll play as a Tal-Vashoth, I'm not sure. A Tal-Vashoth is a qunari/kossith/whatever that left that Qun and fights it. A Vashoth is left the Qun but doesn't fight it. It seems to me that we'll like be the latter and not the former.[/quote]

[quote]andy69156915 wrote...
Then keep needlessly confusing the fanbase. Because as you know fan nicknames to refer to something like, oh I don't know, calling an unnamed Prothean "Prothy" so that we're all on the same page as to what we're referring to, is obviously not meant to be done. Should we start calling all Arabs "Muslims" now because most happen to be Muslim? I mean if we're going to refer to races by their most common religion, then where should we stop? Should we start calling humans in DAO "Andrastians" as their race name? What if it's an elven chantry believer? Andrastian too? "So an Andrastian went to the market yesterday"... Am I referring to an Elf or a human or even a dwarf if that Orzammar Chantry worked out? You don't know? Well that's the bloody point! Here's another, "a Qunari went to the market yesterday"... Horned one, right? Wrong, it was a dwarven convert. Now you feel stupid for guessing wrong. Maybe this would be easier if we had a way of telling what the hell we're talking about? Just an idea.

You don't want to come up with a name for their race? Then you're just complicating things and making things harder to discuss because we all have to specify exactly which Qunari race we're referring to. Apparently some people just like things remaining frustrating.[/quote]

[quote]hhh89 wrote...
@andy69156915: if you want to make a crusade to from a definition for the race, go ahead. I don't care how they should be called, so if you manage to convince everyone on a term that isn't 'qunari', I'll be fine. Until then, since the term 'kossith' is still inaccurate to define the race (since it indicates ten former society of the race), I'll use whatever term I see fit, since it's not wrong to call the qunari.[/quote]

[quote]andy69156915 wrote...
So if everyone called Javik something different than everyone else and no one agreed on the nickname, that would have been fine for discussion before his name was revealed? I don't think so. No one would no who other people were referring to, it would have been a mess to discuss... Exactly like Qunari already are because people like you keep wanting to use their relgion as their race name. And mark my words when I say it's only going to get more complicated in DAI, because I fully expect to be running into even more Qunari than in DA2 and a good number of them will likely be "non-Qunari Qunari" (to use your mindset and demonstrate how stupid and convuluted not using a nickname is going to be for other race Qunari in DAI). You want to call them the overtly long non-Qunari Qunari description for converts? Because that is where your logic is leading us. Or should we come up with a nickname for Qunari who are non-Qunari Qunari in that they aren't racially Qunari but are religious Qunari (purposely being redundant to continue demonstrating how dumb this is)? Just because Bioware is being dumb and not telling us a race name just to make things complicated doesn't mean we should play ball and go along with it. Unless Bioware themselves gives us a race name in DAI, the level of redundancy and confusion in my post here will be just a small fraction of how annoying this is going to get if we don't start using a nickname.[/quote]

[quote]t0mm06 wrote...
Also the whole 'if i say Qunari i could mean an elf' argument.... well yes technically but anyone who wants to make that distinction, and really want people to know its an elf would probably say an Qunari Elf, or maybe even a QunElf.[/quote]

[quote]andy69156915 wrote...
There is a slight chance that Bioware will let you convert to the Qun in your dealing with them, which means it is quite possible your non-Qunari will become a non-Qunari Qunari. So you have an elf who converts to the Qun in your playthrough, what will you call your character now? Elf-Qunari as you said? Just "elf" still even though they are now Qunari? And what if you're referring to a group on non-Qunari Qunari, what will be call them? What I've been redundantly calling them? Even if QunElf works, it still in no way lets you talk about a group of non-Qunari Qunari in a way that isn't frustrating to type and read. Now if we started calling them a nickname, then every single problem with wording and discussion disappears instantly.

As I have said before, you don't like Kossith... Fine. But we as a fanbase need to come up with a similar word, or we're just going to be spinning our wheels in thick mud and not going anywhere. Or if not that, we need a catch all term for all non-Qunari Qunari so we can refer to that group as a whole like the opposite of nicknaming the Qunari race. If you want to go down that route, I suggest Viddathari. It's a word that actually means a non-Qunari race that has recently converted but isn't educated into being a true Qunari yet, so it's technically incorrect just as Kossith is... But it works. If I say "a Viddathari went to the market", everyone knows I am not talking about a racial Qunari and no confusion follows.

So call Qunari the race Kossith or some other word, or call non-Qunari Qunari something like Viddathari. One way or another, we need to be able to separate the race from the religion.[/quote]

[quote]hhh89 wrote...
@andy69156915: Plently of people didn't call Javik Prothy. A lot of them simply called him Prothean.
As for DAI, I woud expect them to be called Tal-Vashoth or Vashoth. Those are the terms used to indicate them in-game.
If you are referring to elf, human and dwarf converts, though, there is an actual term to indicate them: Viddathari.
As for Bioware not wanting to reveal the name of the race, the name might not even exist, or there might be a reason to not revealing it.[/quote]

[quote]and69156915 wrote...
Well I gave an alternative in my last post, nicknaming Qunari who aren't of the Qunari race. Viddathari works. Or we could make a word up. Basari? Qunbas? That way you guys don't have to call Qunari anything different but we can still talk about Qunari who aren't of the race without needless complication. Does that work for you and everyone else?[/quote]

[quote]hhh89 wrote...
Viddathari works.[/quote]