407 réponses à ce sujet

[Sol Downer]

andy69156915 wrote...

Ultimashade wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

-snip-

Come on, that's far from confusing. You're an elf that follows the Qun, as such, you are a Qunari. Alternatively, you are a Follower of the Qun. Those big horned guys are ALSO Qunari, both religiously and racially. You're just a Qunari religiously. Get it?

-snip-

Why do you assume it confuses me when it really, truly, does not? If an elf walks up to me and claims to be a Qunari, I will SEE right off the bat that they are an Elven Qunari. If a Qunari walks up to me and claims to believe in Andraste, I will SEE right off the bat that they are a Qunari who follows Andraste. I'll call them Qunari, like I call the elf simply because everybody remotely related to the religion or race is a Qunari in my eyes. What's so hard about that?

[Kradus9]

Ultimashade wrote...

Why do you assume it confuses me when it really, truly, does not? If an elf walks up to me and claims to be a Qunari, I will SEE right off the bat that they are an Elven Qunari. If a Qunari walks up to me and claims to believe in Andraste, I will SEE right off the bat that they are a Qunari who follows Andraste. I'll call them Qunari, like I call the elf simply because everybody remotely related to the religion or race is a Qunari in my eyes. What's so hard about that?

Dont you mean Tal'Vashot?

And there it is. Perfect example.

[andy6915]

See, the thing is that they are walking up to you so you can see the race. Now if the person isn't there to see face to face then... What, you magically know?

A Qunari went to the market and met with their Andrastian friend, but then a non-Qunari Qunari stabbed the Qunari and the Andrastian both.

Now tell me which races the 3 individuals were. Come on mister "can't confuse me", get it right on the first try.

[Spectre slayer]

This isn't confusing at all, and no where as difficult as you and other people are making it out as and calling someone a liar just because they understand it and you don't is kinda pathetic.

Qunari refers to any race who follows the Qun and any race can be Qunari if they get conquered or have joined freely.

The other races have terms which are Kabethari who are the new converts whether or not they were conquered or just joined but haven't submitted to the Qun.

Viddathari refers to any other race who was conquered or joined and have completely submitted to the Qun.

Qunari( horned or hornless) who break or abandon the Qun are called Vashoth until they become violent which makes them Tal'Vashoth.

A Qunari born outside of the Qun without any knowledge on the Qun and what the Vashoth and Tal'Vashoth are Qunari because that's all they know.

Qunari do not have a term for it's race by itself, in fact as far as we know they never had one. Kossith is an inaccurate, archaic, improper, technical term for the culture that they used to be before the conversion to the Qun over 300+ years ago and the term is pretty much unknown to almost everyone in game besides the Tamarsans and some Qunari priests and isn't apart of their language.

If you want to call the other races who have joined the Qun or have been conquered Elven Qunari, Dwarven Qunari, Human Qunari instead of the terms then you're free to do so. Otherwise they are Qunari, Vashoth, Tal'Vashoth or Sarrebas if they are a mage.

[andy6915]

Spectre slayer wrote...

This isn't confusing at all, and no where as difficult as you and other people are making it out as and calling someone a liar just because they understand it and you don't is kinda pathetic.

Qunari refers to any race who follows the Qun and any race can be Qunari if they get conquered or have joined freely.

The other races have terms which are Kabethari who are the new converts whether or not they were conquered or just joined but haven't submitted to the Qun.

Viddathari refers to any other race who was conquered or joined and have completely submitted to the Qun.

Qunari( horned or hornless) who break or abandon the Qun are called Vashoth until they become violent which makes them Tal'Vashoth.

A Qunari born outside of the Qun without any knowledge on the Qun and what the Vashoth and Tal'Vashoth are Qunari because that's all they know.

Qunari do not have a term for it's race by itself, in fact as far as we know they never had one. Kossith is an inaccurate, archaic, improper, technical term for the culture that they used to be before the conversion to the Qun over 300+ years ago and the term is pretty much unknown to almost everyone in game besides the Tamarsans and some Qunari priests and isn't apart of their language.

If you want to call the other races who have joined the Qun or have been conquered Elven Qunari, Dwarven Qunari, Human Qunari instead of the terms then you're free to do so. Otherwise they are Qunari, Vashoth, Tal'Vashoth or Sarrebas if they are a mage.

Okay then smart one, answer my question in my last post. Tell me with no confusion since it's so obvious and not-confusing, which race is who in my question?

[Sol Downer]

andy69156915 wrote...

See, the thing is that they are walking up to you so you can see the race. Now if the person isn't there to see face to face then... What, you magically know?

A Qunari went to the market and met with their Andrastian friend, but then a non-Qunari Qunari stabbed the Qunari and the Andrastian both.

Now tell me which races the 3 individuals were. Come on mister "can't confuse me", get it right on the first try.

First off, aren't you supposed to tell me the races of the three since you're the one telling this story? Instead you give them purposely confusing epitaphs, such as 'Andrastian friend' and 'non-Qunari Qunari.' If you're telling me a story about people, I'm not gonna pick them out by their religion alone. What makes sense is as follows, however, they are only examples:
"A Qunari following the Qun" or "A Qunari Qunari" if you're crazy.
"An Elven Qunari"
"A Human Qunari"
or "A Dwarven Qunari."
Then there's the ever present guys who don't follow the Qun. As such, they are:
"Elf"
"Human"
"Dwarf"
"Tal-Vashoth" or "Qunari who follows some other religion or none at all." if you're crazy.

You told me to figure out their races, but that means you only gave me their religions. As I said before, that's irrelevant.

Edit: This guy above me? He gets it.

Modifié par Ultimashade, 01 janvier 2014 - 06:01 .

[Kradus9]

Spectre slayer wrote...

This isn't confusing at all,

Ultimashade got confused just a couple of posts above, while claiming that this isn't confusing.

[Sol Downer]

Kradus9 wrote...

Spectre slayer wrote...

This isn't confusing at all,

Ultimashade got confused just a couple of posts above, while claiming that this isn't confusing.

I'm confused as to why this discussion matters.

[Kradus9]

Then read the thread. We're lacking a definition for the horned race.

Btw Tal'Vashoth also does not refer to a specific race.

[Spectre slayer]

andy69156915 wrote...

Spectre slayer wrote...

This isn't confusing at all, and no where as difficult as you and other people are making it out as and calling someone a liar just because they understand it and you don't is kinda pathetic.

Qunari refers to any race who follows the Qun and any race can be Qunari if they get conquered or have joined freely.

The other races have terms which are Kabethari who are the new converts whether or not they were conquered or just joined but haven't submitted to the Qun.

Viddathari refers to any other race who was conquered or joined and have completely submitted to the Qun.

Qunari( horned or hornless) who break or abandon the Qun are called Vashoth until they become violent which makes them Tal'Vashoth.

A Qunari born outside of the Qun without any knowledge on the Qun and what the Vashoth and Tal'Vashoth are Qunari because that's all they know.

Qunari do not have a term for it's race by itself, in fact as far as we know they never had one. Kossith is an inaccurate, archaic, improper, technical term for the culture that they used to be before the conversion to the Qun over 300+ years ago and the term is pretty much unknown to almost everyone in game besides the Tamarsans and some Qunari priests and isn't apart of their language.

If you want to call the other races who have joined the Qun or have been conquered Elven Qunari, Dwarven Qunari, Human Qunari instead of the terms then you're free to do so. Otherwise they are Qunari, Vashoth, Tal'Vashoth or Sarrebas if they are a mage.

Okay then smart one, answer my question in my last post. Tell me with no confusion since it's so obvious and not-confusing, which race is who in my question?

So a Qunari went to the market with a friend and than was stabbed by a non Qunari Qunari, depends on if you're talking about a non big giant with or with out horns than they would be Tal'Vashoth while the first one is either a Qunari who follows the Qun or born outside of it otherwise they are Kabethari or Viddathari( Elven Qunari, Human Qunari, Dwarven Qunari).

Your attitude is exactly why I don't like the term Kossith and exactly the type of person the devs talk about, you won't get a separate race term for them and they didn't have one before either sorry but you just need to accept it or just continue using an inaccurate term and get repeatedly corrected especially when you act like this.?

[andy6915]

Filament wrote...

Just because something is ambiguous doesn't mean it's confusing. It just means you need more information to dispel the ambiguity. It doesn't mean you need more precise terms, helpful as they could be.

And being ambiguous confuses when you're trying to figure what is what and who is who.

Ultimashade wrote...

First off, aren't you supposed to tell me the races of the three since you're the one telling this story? Instead you give them purposely confusing epitaphs, such as 'Andrastian friend' and 'non-Qunari Qunari.' If you're telling me a story about people, I'm not gonna pick them out by their religion alone. What makes sense is as follows, however, they are only examples:
"A Qunari following the Qun" or "A Qunari Qunari" if you're crazy.
"An Elven Qunari"
"A Human Qunari"
or "A Dwarven Qunari."
Then there's the ever present guys who don't follow the Qun. As such, they are:
"Elf"
"Human"
"Dwarf"
"Tal-Vashoth" or "Qunari who follows some other religion or none at all." if you're crazy.

You told me to figure out their races, but that means you only gave me their religions. As I said before, that's irrelevant.

Edit: This guy above me? He gets it.

Irrelevant only because it completely ruins your position in this debate. You admit that you can't answer because it's too vague and you need details... Details like, I don't know, not referring to a race by their most common religion?

So judging from the ignoring to this response here, I assume that no one can answer it... Which was the point, that riddle question was literally impossible to answer correctly. The races of all 3 could have been whatever the hell I wanted them to be because using a religion name to refer to race doesn't work when trying to be precise and decisive for figuring things like "who stabbed who". I left you trapped between admitting your position doesn't work or having to prove my point by answering and me declaring you wrong no matter what races you guessed. It was a trick question where the only outcome was failure, as I made it to be by using your own logic.

In short no matter what is posted afterward, this debate is over. You all conceded my point whether you meant to or not, thus ending this debate in my and the Kossith-users favor. The end.

[Kradus9]

It's better to use an -unaccepted- term, than use a term that has multiple meanings.

[andy6915]

Spectre slayer wrote...

So a Qunari went to the market with a friend and than was stabbed by a non Qunari Qunari, depends on if you're talking about a non big giant with or with out horns than they would be Tal'Vashoth while the first one is either a Qunari who follows the Qun or born outside of it otherwise they are Kabethari or Viddathari( Elven Qunari, Human Qunari, Dwarven Qunari).

Your attitude is exactly why I don't like the term Kossith and exactly the type of person the devs talk about, you won't get a separate race term for them and they didn't have one before either sorry but you just need to accept it or just continue using an inaccurate term and get repeatedly corrected especially when you act like this?

I don't know, what kind of Qunari am I talking about? I'm using your descriptors, shouldn't this be obvious? I thought it wasn't confusing? I could call the first Qunari a Viddathari, but I don't know if they are one. For all I know the Andrastian is actually the horned one. And it seems you are as lost as I am about which race they are. I guess solving the murder of which country's government to ask about the assassination in the market is just impossible when using only religious words...

Modifié par andy69156915, 01 janvier 2014 - 06:14 .

[andy6915]

Filament wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Filament wrote...

Just because something is ambiguous doesn't mean it's confusing. It just means you need more information to dispel the ambiguity. It doesn't mean you need more precise terms, helpful as they could be.

And being ambiguous confuses when you're trying to figure what is what and who is who.

No, you just realize you don't have sufficient information to make a determination. In your case, "qunari" could mean racially or religiously, "Andrastian" doesn't specify a race," and "non-Qunari Qunari" could either be an elven/human/etc Qunari or a racial qunari who doesn't follow the Qun. It's not confusing, there is just a lack of information to specify all the things you said.

A lack of information that causes everyone to be confused about who were the stabbed ones and who the stabber was. So it loops right back into being confusing anyway.

[LinksOcarina]

Man, I have never seen a discussion about nothing so...testy before.

To use some real life parlance in here for a moment, Quanri is kind of analogus to Christian or Muslim in the real world. Technically no one is that as a "race", but it is recognizable to discuss a "group" with that term.

Since that is what happens in Dragon Age, I see no problem with it over the term Kossith, which as stated before, is mostly antiquated in use during the game. Why you want to define something that they aren't anymore is beyond me, but do what you want, no one is going to stop you.

[daveliam]

andy69156915 wrote...

So
judging from the ignoring to this response here, I assume that no one
can answer it... Which was the point, that riddle question was literally impossible
to answer correctly. The races of all 3 could have been whatever the
hell I wanted them to be because using a religion name to refer to race
doesn't work when trying to be precise and decisive for figuring things
like "who stabbed who". I left you trapped between admitting your
position doesn't work or having to prove my point by answering and me
declaring you wrong no matter what races you guessed. It was a trick
question where the only outcome was failure, as I made it to be by using
your own logic.

In short no matter what is posted afterward,
this debate is over. You all conceded my point whether you meant to or
not, thus ending this debate in my and the Kossith-users favor. The end.

No one answered because we've all stopped caring about this argument. No one has conceded anything. I'm not going to argue with you because you are asking for something that you don't need but insisting that you absolutely need it. It's not worth the effort. Your example is not relevant to me because it's not important to me to have absolute clarity on all details about the race of characters immediately upon hearing about them.

Your abrasive argument style reminds me of when I was a teacher and my 14 year old students would try to argue logic, but didn't fully understand complexity so they just kept trying to harp on a single tangential point as if it lent credence to the rest of their argument. I learned long ago that it's not worth arguing with that kind of reasoning because they are not open to hearing other points.

Modifié par daveliam, 01 janvier 2014 - 06:19 .

[daveliam]

Kradus9 wrote...

It's better to use an -unaccepted- term, than use a term that has multiple meanings.

For you.  Not for others.  And, apparently, not for the writers.

[Todd23]

Andy, what if I told you that someone was able to tell the difference and somehow know the race of all of them based on what you said, as unlikely or maybe even impossible as it may be. Does that mean that all kossith should still be referred to by the name of the religion that a majority of the race just so happens to follow, despite Qunari explicitly saying otherwise in the past? Native Americans are referred to as Indians even though that's technically not what they are at all. They were only called that by mistake a few hundred years ago and when they were givin' a new racial name people just continued to call them Indian because it was a lot easier, now if I say Indian I may have to point out to whomever I'm speaking to and say not that one this one. However if I am talking to a Native American and I call them or their race Indians and he corrects me I would not call them Indians simply out of respect.

[andy6915]

Like I said, I don't even truly care if you use Kossith. I just want us, as a forum, to finally decide on a fan-made nickname for the Qunari race so this entire discussion becomes a non issue. Or use Qunari ONLY for the giant people and use Viddathari for anyone not of that race that is a Qun follower. Don't want Kossith, fine... But you better come up with a word in its place. Because then it becomes this-

"A Viddathari and a Qunari went to the market, but then a human came and stabbed them both"

See that? Qunari is now fully a race word, Viddathari is solely a religious term, and races are being referred to as races. Change Qunari to Kossith and Viddathari to Qunari, and it still works.

[andy6915]

daveliam wrote...

I learned long ago that it's not worth arguing with that kind of reasoning because they are not open to hearing other points.

When your points are indefensible... Yeah, I am not open to hear it. Why should I be open to a point that can't even be logically or rationally defended? It's the same reason I don't listen to young-Earth creationists or flat-Earth believers.

Modifié par andy69156915, 01 janvier 2014 - 06:26 .

[PinkysPain]

andy69156915 wrote...
Or use Qunari ONLY for the giant people and use Viddathari for anyone not of that race that is a Qun follower.

If we used Qunari as a race name what would we call Qun Qunari then? QQunaris?

Modifié par PinkysPain, 01 janvier 2014 - 06:30 .