407 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

Filament wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

A lack of information that causes everyone to be confused about who were the stabbed ones and who the stabber was. So it loops right back into being confusing anyway.

That still need not lead to confusion unless you're just intent on being confused. And the fault for any confusion generated by this lack of information would be on you for failing to provide proper context, not the language, because although the language is possibly inefficient, it still has the tools you need to communicate the ideas clearly. You just chose not to use them.

So you really think using a word for a religion as a word for a race in all circumstances has no possibility of making things harder to figure out or more vague or more murky? If you do, then you are are arguing for a position that isn't logical. It could all be fixed by just assigning a true race name to either Qun followers who aren't Qun race or by calling the Qun race something that is uncanon but works.

[andy6915]

PinkysPain wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...
Or use Qunari ONLY for the giant people and use Viddathari for anyone not of that race that is a Qun follower.

If we used Qunari as a race name what would we call Qun Qunari then? QQunaris?

"QQunaris" would be Qunari as their race name and followers of other races would be Viddathari. Simple, effective, no confusion, no vagueness, everyone knows what everyone else is referring to. Not the nonsense currently going on.

[Todd23]

Shut up about your market. I am not only tired of hearing it, but I have to tell you now if someone wants, absolutely wants to refer to kossith as Qunari, I'm okay with that I don't care. I'm going to call them kossith because it's the actual name of the race Qunari is not I repeat is not the name of the race. It is a nickname given to them by people who are not Qunari, and one they do not recognize. Granted they don't recognize any names for their race. But because kossith is the name of their race I'm going to refer to them as such. However if your goal is truly to develope a new name for the race, I question more than just your logic...

[Hellion Rex]

I rue the day that Bioware introduced the "K" word.

[The Elder King]

@Todd23: Kossith isn't the name of the race. It's the name of the culture of the race before the Qun.

[daveliam]

eluvianix wrote...

I rue the day that Bioware introduced the "K" word.

I hear ya! 

[andy6915]

Todd23 wrote...

Shut up about your market. I am not only tired of hearing it, but I have to tell you now if someone wants, absolutely wants to refer to kossith as Qunari, I'm okay with that I don't care. I'm going to call them kossith because it's the actual name of the race Qunari is not I repeat is not the name of the race. It is a nickname given to them by people who are not Qunari, and one they do not recognize. Granted they don't recognize any names for their race. But because kossith is the name of their race I'm going to refer to them as such. However if your goal is truly to develope a new name for the race, I question more than just your logic...

You tell me to shut up, yet I am on your side as a "Kossith" supporter... Okay.

It's true that I have said that you don't need to use Kossith though. I don't care what the word is. I just want there to be a distinction between Qunari the big ox people and Qunari the religious people. That is all. Every post I've made in this thread has been for that purpose.

[Hellion Rex]

daveliam wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

I rue the day that Bioware introduced the "K" word.

I hear ya! 

In all honesty, this argument is completely ridiculous. 

[daveliam]

eluvianix wrote...

In all honesty, this argument is completely ridiculous. 

Yeah, I wish I never got involved in it.  I think it's time for me to put the laptop away and go breath some fresh air.  I let the BSN crazy affect me, like red lyrium.  It's really not worth it.

[andy6915]

Filament wrote...
It does make things vague and murky without exhaustive efforts at clarification, without a doubt, particularly in an all-text medium that people in Thedas rarely have to deal with, but that people on these forums use exclusively. I just don't see much point in coming up with a fan name when this barrier to communication is far from insurmountable, and when with your solution, you're just going to have as many people asking what that word means when it never appears in any official DA material.

I have a couple solutions, remember? Use Viddathari for Qun followers who are not Qunari oxmen, or use Kossith for Qunari oxmen, or come up with a new word entirely like "Prothy the Prothean" was before we knew Javik's name. You think Kossith is bad, then do 1 of the other 2.

[Todd23]

andy69156915 wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

Shut up about your market. I am not only tired of hearing it, but I have to tell you now if someone wants, absolutely wants to refer to kossith as Qunari, I'm okay with that I don't care. I'm going to call them kossith because it's the actual name of the race Qunari is not I repeat is not the name of the race. It is a nickname given to them by people who are not Qunari, and one they do not recognize. Granted they don't recognize any names for their race. But because kossith is the name of their race I'm going to refer to them as such. However if your goal is truly to develope a new name for the race, I question more than just your logic...

You tell me to shut up, yet I am on your side as a "Kossith" supporter... Okay.
It's true that I have said that you don't need to use Kossith though. I don't care what the word is. I just want there to be a distinction between Qunari the big ox people and Qunari the religious people. That is all. Every post I've made in this thread has been for that purpose.

to an extreme and almost ridiculous extent there's no way that people who won't even accept the actual name of the races are going to make a new one and I'm not just saying that they should be free to call kossith Qunari. But that if they want, they should be free to call both the religion and race Qunari. However I do not think that they should be surprised if someone ask them to elaborate. and I especially do not think that anyone should get corrected if they refer to the race has kossith. I merely told you to shut up because I am not only tired of hearing about your market example, I also agree with everyone else on the fact that the ambiguity of the statement falls to you. I am neither fighting for Qunari nor kossith as a term for the race, I am fighting for logic.

[BioFan (Official)]

So what if a Viddathari left the qun? WOuld they be lumped in with the Vashoth/Tal-vashoth? Or do they have another term?

[Tremere]

I asked, "What is the race of large, mostly horned, gray-skinned, humanoids who were formerly (culturally) referred to as Kossith, but have since adopted the teachings of the scholar Koslun and thus, refer to themselves as Qunari or Tal'Vashoth?"

I have yet to receive a satisfactory answer and so I don't refer to them in the context of race. According to dialogue I had with David Gaider, this is deliberate and intended to provide a sense of obscurity about the race and people as a whole. We're essentially not supposed to "know" them. I personally don't think it works, as threads like this seem to prove, but there it is.

Modifié par GabrielXL, 01 janvier 2014 - 08:24 .

[BioFan (Official)]

Thank you to all of the devs for the very good clarification!!!!

[PinkysPain]

GabrielXL wrote...
I have yet to receive a satisfactory answer and so I don't refer to them in the context of race. According to dialogue I had with David Gaider, this is deliberate and intended to provide a sense of obscurity about the race and people as a whole.

I still think they simply have big plans for the original Kossith race and they try to make us forget there is an entire continent filled with them out there by eradicating the words necessary to effectively discuss the topic. Names are a powerful thing, it's a little like the term "autodialogue" ... they get all pissy over that one too.

I personally don't think it works, as threads like this seem to prove, but there it is.

Oh I dunno, they managed to get the Wikia nearly entirely cleansed.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 01 janvier 2014 - 09:05 .

[Rotward]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

This thread...

This ****ing thread....

https://lh4.googleus...o4z_Jq3486gkiaA

[Battlebloodmage]

When people claim that "We" need a term for the Qunari race, I always wonder who this "we" is because, according to Gaider, to an average gamer, they don't even know what Kossith is since they don't read all the codex word for word. In actuality, the "we" is actually a minority here trying to bring the word "Kossith" to the majority of the gamers. Even on the forum, everyone here is a minority. You can't impose or create a universal word for Qunari race if there are only a few people know about it. It's more about people wanting to be right, and I would say it about both sides of the arguments. It's actually not that confusing to use the Qunari for race if people are willing to type in a few extra words. On the other hand, it's not that hard to ignore when people use "Kossith" intentionally even after many writers stated it's incorrect.

[rapscallioness]

PinkysPain wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...
Or use Qunari ONLY for the giant people and use Viddathari for anyone not of that race that is a Qun follower.

If we used Qunari as a race name what would we call Qun Qunari then? QQunaris?

Actually it would be QuQunari. You know the song:



"QuQunari sits on the old gum tree,
Merry merry king of the Qun is he.
Laugh,QuQunari, laugh, QuQunari,
Gay your life must be!

QuQunari sits in the old gum tree
Converting all the Bas he can see
Stop, QuQunari, Stop, QuQunari
Leave some Bas for me.

QuQunari sits in the old gum tree,
Counting all the kossith he can see
Stop, QuQunari, Stop, QuQunari,
That's no kossith, that's me."

Modifié par rapscallioness, 01 janvier 2014 - 11:22 .

[NorwegianPirate]

Battlebloodmage wrote...
 It's more about people wanting to be right, and I would say it about both sides of the arguments. It's actually not that confusing to use the Qunari for race if people are willing to type in a few extra words.

I think it's more about people wanting to be precise. Several characters in-game will tell you that using "Qunari" to refer to the race of grey-skinned giants is incorrect, so people start looking for a term that refer specifically to the race of grey-skinned giants the same way "Elves" refers to the lithe, pointy-eared people. It doesn't matter all that much to me, but I can definitely see why people have become so fond of the word Kossith.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

When people claim that "We" need a term for the Qunari race, I always wonder who this "we" is because, according to Gaider, to an average gamer, they don't even know what Kossith is since they don't read all the codex word for word. In actuality, the "we" is actually a minority here trying to bring the word "Kossith" to the majority of the gamers. Even on the forum, everyone here is a minority. You can't impose or create a universal word for Qunari race if there are only a few people know about it. It's more about people wanting to be right, and I would say it about both sides of the arguments. It's actually not that confusing to use the Qunari for race if people are willing to type in a few extra words. On the other hand, it's not that hard to ignore when people use "Kossith" intentionally even after many writers stated it's incorrect.

The Itty Bitty Nit-picky Commitie. 

[Sifr]

MasterScribe wrote...

It seems that this debate stems from people who are intensely anti-Qun.

They don't  want "Qun" anywhere near their characters, as if calling the race "Qunari" automatically implies that every member of the race must follow the Qun. That's simply untrue.

I'd disagree with this point, as while I can't speak for others, I am fascinated by the Qunari people and philosophy. Do I agree with it entirely? No... but their race and culture has fascinated me since Origins.

While I'm on the side of those who want a better name, I disagree with those who insist on using the term Kossith. As has been pointed out, it's an archaic term, similar to calling Kirkwall "Emerius" or referring to the Bone Pit as the Maharian Quarry. As a bit of trivia, it's nice to know, but no-one uses them in 'verse.

Still, the confusion (at least for me) is that labelling the race after the Qunari religion, even the non-Qun followers, is akin to labelling City Elves as "Dalish", based on their being Elves, sharing common ancestry from the Dalish, yet following none of the religion or culture.

Qunari is fine as a placeholder name, but at some point, what the Tal-Vashoth and non-Qun members choose to call themselves - if they even call deem to call themselves anything at all - should be addressed in 'verse.

And with that, I think I shall bow out of the thread.

[andy6915]

Why did you bump this!?