I am pretty sure the Tal-Vasoth call themselves exactly that. I don't think you would find any qunari that call themselves differently unless you go to where ever they came from and find a group of them that never converted to the qun in the first place. we know that they used "qunlat" before the qun became mainstream because of Koslun using the Ashkaari title. Unless of course he made up an entire language to go along with his religion.
Why is Kossith an inaccurate term for horned Qunari and Tal-vashoth?
Débuté par
PinkysPain
, nov. 11 2012 06:26
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#352
Posté 02 janvier 2014 - 10:13
Shark17676
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Bioware kinda made this more complicated than it needed to be.
#353
Posté 02 janvier 2014 - 11:18
Nefla
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Shark17676 wrote...
Bioware kinda made this more complicated than it needed to be.
Its not complicated, people just want to make it that way.
#354
Posté 03 janvier 2014 - 03:40
Tremere
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Personally, I think the word "obscure" fits better, but I agree with you in principle.Shark17676 wrote...
Bioware kinda made this more complicated than it needed to be.
#355
Posté 03 janvier 2014 - 04:21
LPPrince
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I think people are trying too hard and its as simple as calling them all qunari.
#356
Posté 03 janvier 2014 - 04:41
Magdalena11
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It would be nice to have a term more precise than calling them Qunari. It's not going to happen. I have no problem calling a woman with a complete host of other features a blonde and maybe it's that easy. I'm sure she really is more than her hair color and that will become obvious once I get to know her but the first thing I see is that she's got blonde hair. Whether she believes in the same god I do or rejects it in favor of one she met in college is entirely irrelevant.
#357
Posté 03 janvier 2014 - 05:43
craigdolphin
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Your world, your lore, your rules 
All the same, I think it's a bit implausible overall.
Humans love labeling and categorizing things of all kinds. That's the nature of our particular beast. Linneas was the father of taxonomy, but people came up with names for all manner of beastie before he ever did, and they still do today. The confusion created by having imprecise, duplicative, and ambiguous names became a problem for scholars on earth, and I suspect that the same principles would also be true in scholastic circles in Thedas. Unless humans in Thedas are psychologically different than humans here on Earth, I personally don't think that it's particularly convincing to suggest that scholars like Brother Genetivi would pass up on that particular human tradition.
Even if you take that as a given, though, the issue is not really whether the peoples of Thedas would understand the word 'Kossith', the issue is that the human community of the Bioware social site would like a more precise term to refer to the biological race, and one that preferably comes from the lore if at all possible. A good name should pass the ABC's: accuracy, brevity, clarity. Ideally it would also originate from within the lore of the game because that would increase our sense of engagement with the world.
The term 'big horned giants' is unsatisfying because some of these particular beings don't have horns and the most prominent member of the species that we are familiar with (Sten) did not have them which creates some level of cognitive dissonance. It fails the accuracy and brevity tests for a useful label, and doesn't really come from the lore. It arguably succeeds in the clarity test.
The term 'Qunari' is unsatisfying because it seems to be the plural name for adherents of the qun culture/religion. These include adherents from the elven, dwarven, and human races, which makes it less than useful to talk about the race we want to single out. Ironically, there seems to be a general descriptor for these 'other' race adherents of the qun ('Viddithari'). It also is unsatisfying because, if used to describe the species, then it must also be used to describe those members of the biological race that have left the qun (Tal Vashoth). It passes the brevity and lore tests, but it fails the accuracy and clarity tests.
The term 'Kossith' is a bit unappealing because it refers to an old culture of the biological species we're interested in talking about, and apparently was not intended for use as a biological descriptor, but it comes across as being the closest label that can be found in the game lore that suits the purpose. It fails the clarity test as it's not a prominent word in the games, and the historical usage of the word might make the accuracy more questionable in the minds of the few Thedosians who understand it. But it is at least appears demonstrably less ambiguous than 'Qunari' and therefore scores better in the accuracy realm. It passes the brevity and lore tests.
Compound terms can certainly be used to clarify. But that falls afoul of the brevity test. Jargon is a pejorative term that describes specialist words used in a particular industry or area of study and that unfortunately act as learning barriers for newcomers to the field. However, jargon arises in every specialist field of knowledge exactly because it facilitates precise and accurate discussion. It leads to a more useful and efficient vocabulary for certain types of discussion. Relying on compound terms is just inefficient.
In the absence of coining a new term, the most useful of the labels available to refer to the biological race still appears to be 'kossith', IMO. However, as is also true of scholarly names on Earth, it is a bit silly to expect non-scholars to understand or use taxonomic nomenclature in regular communications.
That's obviously just my opinion.
All the same, I think it's a bit implausible overall. Humans love labeling and categorizing things of all kinds. That's the nature of our particular beast. Linneas was the father of taxonomy, but people came up with names for all manner of beastie before he ever did, and they still do today. The confusion created by having imprecise, duplicative, and ambiguous names became a problem for scholars on earth, and I suspect that the same principles would also be true in scholastic circles in Thedas. Unless humans in Thedas are psychologically different than humans here on Earth, I personally don't think that it's particularly convincing to suggest that scholars like Brother Genetivi would pass up on that particular human tradition.
Even if you take that as a given, though, the issue is not really whether the peoples of Thedas would understand the word 'Kossith', the issue is that the human community of the Bioware social site would like a more precise term to refer to the biological race, and one that preferably comes from the lore if at all possible. A good name should pass the ABC's: accuracy, brevity, clarity. Ideally it would also originate from within the lore of the game because that would increase our sense of engagement with the world.
The term 'big horned giants' is unsatisfying because some of these particular beings don't have horns and the most prominent member of the species that we are familiar with (Sten) did not have them which creates some level of cognitive dissonance. It fails the accuracy and brevity tests for a useful label, and doesn't really come from the lore. It arguably succeeds in the clarity test.
The term 'Qunari' is unsatisfying because it seems to be the plural name for adherents of the qun culture/religion. These include adherents from the elven, dwarven, and human races, which makes it less than useful to talk about the race we want to single out. Ironically, there seems to be a general descriptor for these 'other' race adherents of the qun ('Viddithari'). It also is unsatisfying because, if used to describe the species, then it must also be used to describe those members of the biological race that have left the qun (Tal Vashoth). It passes the brevity and lore tests, but it fails the accuracy and clarity tests.
The term 'Kossith' is a bit unappealing because it refers to an old culture of the biological species we're interested in talking about, and apparently was not intended for use as a biological descriptor, but it comes across as being the closest label that can be found in the game lore that suits the purpose. It fails the clarity test as it's not a prominent word in the games, and the historical usage of the word might make the accuracy more questionable in the minds of the few Thedosians who understand it. But it is at least appears demonstrably less ambiguous than 'Qunari' and therefore scores better in the accuracy realm. It passes the brevity and lore tests.
Compound terms can certainly be used to clarify. But that falls afoul of the brevity test. Jargon is a pejorative term that describes specialist words used in a particular industry or area of study and that unfortunately act as learning barriers for newcomers to the field. However, jargon arises in every specialist field of knowledge exactly because it facilitates precise and accurate discussion. It leads to a more useful and efficient vocabulary for certain types of discussion. Relying on compound terms is just inefficient.
In the absence of coining a new term, the most useful of the labels available to refer to the biological race still appears to be 'kossith', IMO. However, as is also true of scholarly names on Earth, it is a bit silly to expect non-scholars to understand or use taxonomic nomenclature in regular communications.
That's obviously just my opinion.
#358
Posté 03 janvier 2014 - 05:47
LPPrince
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At this point I hate the word kossith, probably because of the stigma attached to it thru the BSN.
I'd rather they not use it going forward and keep to calling qunari just that. That or make it clearer in game what these different terms mean so that this confusion gets put to rest and we can all move on.
I'd rather they not use it going forward and keep to calling qunari just that. That or make it clearer in game what these different terms mean so that this confusion gets put to rest and we can all move on.
#359
Posté 03 janvier 2014 - 06:02
Mirrman70
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craigdolphin wrote...
Your world, your lore, your rules
Humans love labeling and categorizing things of all kinds. That's the nature of our particular beast. Linneas was the father of taxonomy, but people came up with names for all manner of beastie before he ever did, and they still do today. The confusion created by having imprecise, duplicative, and ambiguous names became a problem for scholars on earth, and I suspect that the same principles would also be true in scholastic circles in Thedas. Unless humans in Thedas are psychologically different than humans here on Earth, I personally don't think that it's particularly convincing to suggest that scholars like Brother Genetivi would pass up on that particular human tradition.
Even if you take that as a given, though, the issue is not really whether the peoples of Thedas would understand the word 'Kossith', the issue is that the human community of the Bioware social site would like a more precise term to refer to the biological race, and one that preferably comes from the lore if at all possible. A good name should pass the ABC's: accuracy, brevity, clarity. Ideally it would also originate from within the lore of the game because that would increase our sense of engagement with the world.
The term 'big horned giants' is unsatisfying because some of these particular beings don't have horns and the most prominent member of the species that we are familiar with (Sten) did not have them which creates some level of cognitive dissonance. It fails the accuracy and brevity tests for a useful label, and doesn't really come from the lore. It arguably succeeds in the clarity test.
The term 'Qunari' is unsatisfying because it seems to be the plural name for adherents of the qun culture/religion. These include adherents from the elven, dwarven, and human races, which makes it less than useful to talk about the race we want to single out. Ironically, there seems to be a general descriptor for these 'other' race adherents of the qun ('Viddithari'). It also is unsatisfying because, if used to describe the species, then it must also be used to describe those members of the biological race that have left the qun (Tal Vashoth). It passes the brevity and lore tests, but it fails the accuracy and clarity tests.
The term 'Kossith' is a bit unappealing because it refers to an old culture of the biological species we're interested in talking about, and apparently was not intended for use as a biological descriptor, but it comes across as being the closest label that can be found in the game lore that suits the purpose. It fails the clarity test as it's not a prominent word in the games, and the historical usage of the word might make the accuracy more questionable in the minds of the few Thedosians who understand it. But it is at least appears demonstrably less ambiguous than 'Qunari' and therefore scores better in the accuracy realm. It passes the brevity and lore tests.
Compound terms can certainly be used to clarify. But that falls afoul of the brevity test. Jargon is a pejorative term that describes specialist words used in a particular industry or area of study and that unfortunately act as learning barriers for newcomers to the field. However, jargon arises in every specialist field of knowledge exactly because it facilitates precise and accurate discussion. It leads to a more useful and efficient vocabulary for certain types of discussion. Relying on compound terms is just inefficient.
In the absence of coining a new term, the most useful of the labels available to refer to the biological race still appears to be 'kossith', IMO. However, as is also true of scholarly names on Earth, it is a bit silly to expect non-scholars to understand or use taxonomic nomenclature in regular communications.
That's obviously just my opinion.
that last part there seemed to me to be quite the veiled insult my good man.
#360
Posté 03 janvier 2014 - 07:22
Han Shot First
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Kradus9 wrote...
Then read the thread. We're lacking a definition for the horned race.
No we aren't. Qunari works just fine. Whether a person is referring to the race or the religion depends on the context in which it is used.
Is the word Jewish confusing?
#361
Posté 03 janvier 2014 - 10:51
craigdolphin
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Mirrman70 wrote...
that last part there seemed to me to be quite the veiled insult my good man.
How is it an insult? It was certainly not intended as one.
#362
Posté 04 janvier 2014 - 02:30
PinkysPain
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You are aware that Hebrew and Israelite are common terms both in and out of the Jewish community right?Mirrman70 wrote...
just how jewish people identify their race as jewish so can you with the Qunari. They themselves have no name for their own race that has been revealed.
#363
Posté 04 janvier 2014 - 05:22
Miraider
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Please excuse me for my bad English, It's not my native language. This is how I see it.
In ancient era there were great nations and each had their own beliefs, different gods, etcetera. For a long time religion and nationality was so binded together, there were percieved as one. That started to change, when great empires conquered several other nations and forced them to believe in their believes.
Similar thing is happening for Qunari in Thedas. Qunari evolved their believes separately from others, thus the nationality and religion is the same for them.
But as the Qunari people where exposed to Thedosians and found out, they don't have to live by the Qun, some of them decided to quit.
This created dilemma, how to call Qunari, who quit.The Qunari call them Vashoth.
Those, who quit, created this noble name Tal-Vashoth (true grey) to describe themselves.
Name Tal-Vashoth isn't commonly known among Thedosians and thus they call them Qunari.
So this detachment of religion from nationality is percieved only by outsiders, who knows, there are Tal-Vashoth.
Name Kossith shouldn't be used to describe Qunari and Tal-Vashoth, because it's most probably name of nation, which existed before Qunari. It was name of nation, not the race.
Name to describe Qunari race doesn't exist, because Qunari people never have had the need to describe themselves that way, until they came to Thedas. They never before encountered other races.
In centuries ahead, some anthropologist presumably will create unified name for Qunari race, but for now name Qunari is for race, nation and religion the same.
The Qunari themselves use this name to describe a follower of the Qun. If you want to describe religion , nation or race, you should use Qunari as adjective with respective word.
In ancient era there were great nations and each had their own beliefs, different gods, etcetera. For a long time religion and nationality was so binded together, there were percieved as one. That started to change, when great empires conquered several other nations and forced them to believe in their believes.
Similar thing is happening for Qunari in Thedas. Qunari evolved their believes separately from others, thus the nationality and religion is the same for them.
But as the Qunari people where exposed to Thedosians and found out, they don't have to live by the Qun, some of them decided to quit.
This created dilemma, how to call Qunari, who quit.The Qunari call them Vashoth.
Those, who quit, created this noble name Tal-Vashoth (true grey) to describe themselves.
Name Tal-Vashoth isn't commonly known among Thedosians and thus they call them Qunari.
So this detachment of religion from nationality is percieved only by outsiders, who knows, there are Tal-Vashoth.
Name Kossith shouldn't be used to describe Qunari and Tal-Vashoth, because it's most probably name of nation, which existed before Qunari. It was name of nation, not the race.
Name to describe Qunari race doesn't exist, because Qunari people never have had the need to describe themselves that way, until they came to Thedas. They never before encountered other races.
In centuries ahead, some anthropologist presumably will create unified name for Qunari race, but for now name Qunari is for race, nation and religion the same.
The Qunari themselves use this name to describe a follower of the Qun. If you want to describe religion , nation or race, you should use Qunari as adjective with respective word.
Modifié par Miraider, 04 janvier 2014 - 05:39 .
#364
Posté 04 janvier 2014 - 06:44
JoltDealer
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I don't think I've ever seen such mind-blowing arrogance in a thread before. Do we really have people telling the devs (i.e. the people who made the flipping game) what the correct term is for a race they created? I'm sorry, but that is just ridiculous.
The only place I ever see the term, "kossith," regularly used is here on the BSN. In Dragon Age, the Qunari are the Qunari. If you come across one that's abandoned the Qun, they are specifically called Tal-Vashoth, which is a distinction only obvious to the Qunari culture. For the rest of Thedas, big grey horned people are just Qunari. The Kossith are something that existed long ago that predates the Qunari culture that may not even be the same as modern-day Qunari. That is probably the best reason why Kossith is an inaccurate term, but that doesn't even matter.
For the sake of not having to explain every damned distinction, Qunari is the most accurate term for a blanket description of the race of big, grey, horned people.
The only place I ever see the term, "kossith," regularly used is here on the BSN. In Dragon Age, the Qunari are the Qunari. If you come across one that's abandoned the Qun, they are specifically called Tal-Vashoth, which is a distinction only obvious to the Qunari culture. For the rest of Thedas, big grey horned people are just Qunari. The Kossith are something that existed long ago that predates the Qunari culture that may not even be the same as modern-day Qunari. That is probably the best reason why Kossith is an inaccurate term, but that doesn't even matter.
For the sake of not having to explain every damned distinction, Qunari is the most accurate term for a blanket description of the race of big, grey, horned people.
#365
Posté 04 janvier 2014 - 07:42
Wissenschaft
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This will get even better when DA:I comes out and only Qunari is used within the game. Then the forms with be full of topics about the awesome Kossith they made and the responses shall be "what are you talking about"?
#366
Posté 05 janvier 2014 - 09:46
Han Shot First
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Wissenschaft wrote...
This will get even better when DA:I comes out and only Qunari is used within the game. Then the forms with be full of topics about the awesome Kossith they made and the responses shall be "what are you talking about"?
I'm sure plenty of people are already having that reaction while browsing the BSN.
Sometime after DA2 I went a long time without visiting the DA forums at all, and when I came back there were multiple threads with the word "Kossith" in the title. My first thought was, "What the hell is a Kossith?!" I was thinking I had missed something in DA2. Then the first time I used Qunari in a thread, a few people were quick to pounce with the "It's Kossith, N00b!" posts. I'm exaggerating a bit of course, but you get the idea.
#367
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 05:42
Kradus9
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Han Shot First wrote...
Kradus9 wrote...
Then read the thread. We're lacking a definition for the horned race.
No we aren't. Qunari works just fine. Whether a person is referring to the race or the religion depends on the context in which it is used.
Is the word Jewish confusing?
Qunari doesn't work, because there are members of the horned race who actually aren't qunari, but their race remains the same. Just like there are other races who become qunari, but are never part of that race.
This argument is constanlty presented and ignored, and this discussion wont go anywhere so long as people do that.
And judeism isn't a race, it's a religious belief. Similiarly to qunari, there are people who dont practice judeism, but share the same ethnicity. Caucasian in this case, but in dept they are refered to as semites, which is an older cultural definition, used as ethnical refrence, just like Kossith. And just like the Qun, Judeism is practiced by multiple races.
ex: East asian guy says:"Im Jewish".
Your generalisation of race and religion would imply a negative. Hence why people keep asking this question, we need more accurate references.
Modifié par Kradus9, 06 janvier 2014 - 05:46 .
#368
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 06:31
Kikidori
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From their lore perspective, from what I've understand, is either you are a Qunari or you are not. It doesn't matter what your "real" race is, you are Qunari now. Period. Qunari is also the Qunari's term. Not a human term.
Qunari is an efficent name, works sort of like "Muslims" majority of the world would think at first "Ah, Middle-Eastern people" irrelevant of the fact it's a religion for anyone to practise. It's the exact same thing with Qunari. Some people say "Muslims" instead of "Middle-Eastern people" because it's easier to say and still get the mind across the table of what kind of people you are talking about.
I know a counter argument could be "I'm a Muslim but I'm also Middle-Eastern ethnic from Saudi Arabia" or "I'm Muslim but also Caucasian from France"
However when it comes to the Qunari, most people in Thedas don't understand that Qunari is a term for an religion instead of a race. Like Tallis, She is a Qunari Assassin, but most people would call her an "Rogue Elf following the Qun" if they knew she followed the Qun, otherwise "Rogue Elf" or "Elf Assassin".
If the Qunari stormed the beach with Qunari warriors and I saw an Elf with a bow at the rear, I would scream "Elven archer! At the rear!" Not "Qunari archer! At the rear!"
Easy example with numbers, if 1 = Qunari Religion/Race , 2 is Human Race, 3 is Elven Race, and 4 is Dwarf Race.
The combination is as follows: 1*1, 1*2, 1*3, 1*4 , I would then say, 1 instead of 1*1, So Qunari. 1*2 =2 = Human So I would say human, 1*3 = 3 = Elf, so I would Elf and so on. We don't need another term.
Qunari is an effcient term.
Qunari is an efficent name, works sort of like "Muslims" majority of the world would think at first "Ah, Middle-Eastern people" irrelevant of the fact it's a religion for anyone to practise. It's the exact same thing with Qunari. Some people say "Muslims" instead of "Middle-Eastern people" because it's easier to say and still get the mind across the table of what kind of people you are talking about.
I know a counter argument could be "I'm a Muslim but I'm also Middle-Eastern ethnic from Saudi Arabia" or "I'm Muslim but also Caucasian from France"
However when it comes to the Qunari, most people in Thedas don't understand that Qunari is a term for an religion instead of a race. Like Tallis, She is a Qunari Assassin, but most people would call her an "Rogue Elf following the Qun" if they knew she followed the Qun, otherwise "Rogue Elf" or "Elf Assassin".
If the Qunari stormed the beach with Qunari warriors and I saw an Elf with a bow at the rear, I would scream "Elven archer! At the rear!" Not "Qunari archer! At the rear!"
Easy example with numbers, if 1 = Qunari Religion/Race , 2 is Human Race, 3 is Elven Race, and 4 is Dwarf Race.
The combination is as follows: 1*1, 1*2, 1*3, 1*4 , I would then say, 1 instead of 1*1, So Qunari. 1*2 =2 = Human So I would say human, 1*3 = 3 = Elf, so I would Elf and so on. We don't need another term.
Qunari is an effcient term.
Modifié par Kikidori, 06 janvier 2014 - 06:31 .
#369
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 06:35
Heimdall
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People just don't like the ambiguity of using the same term to refer to.
A) Horned-giants that don't follow the Qun
Horned-giants that follow the Qun
C) Non-horned-giants that follow the Qun
It's an understandable frustration.
A) Horned-giants that don't follow the Qun
Horned-giants that follow the QunC) Non-horned-giants that follow the Qun
It's an understandable frustration.
#370
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 06:49
Kikidori
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Lord Aesir wrote...
People just don't like the ambiguity of using the same term to refer to.
A) Horned-giants that don't follow the Qun
C) Non-horned-giants that follow the Qun
It's an understandable frustration.
A) Horned-giants that don't follow the Qun:
Tal-Vashoth is an Qunari term for the Qunari, not for Humans, Elves and Dwarves. We cannot see on the person if they follow the Qun or not to begin with, so we make the assumtion they follow the Qun, like most Qunari do. So most would say Qunari at first. Humans, elves and dwarves would probably stick to Qunari unless the Tal-Vashoth asks you not to.
Horned-giants that follow the Qun: QunariC) Non-horned-giants that follow the Qun:
At the first glance meeting them, we wouldn't even know they followed the Qun to begin with, much like I can't know what religion you people have, so I would just call them "Elf", "Dwarf" and "Human" once I know they follow the Qun, I would call them Qunari as well. Out of respect.
Modifié par Kikidori, 06 janvier 2014 - 06:55 .
#371
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 07:40
Kradus9
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If Tal-Vashoth aren't qunari, then their race can't be refered to as qunari. Their DNA didn't change when they rebelled against the Qun.
If a human called a Tal-vashoth qunari, convinced that it is a racial term, then the giant would either attack him, or explain that they aren't qunari. And this race question would rise, just like it does in real life.
David Gaider would have to go through great lenghts to hide this problem if the game was based on Rivain, where the Qun is the prevalent religion in a multi-racial society, if I'm not mistaken. People there would certainly have a racial reference for the Kossith, because they would need it.
I mean, race is used all the time as a reference in the DA universe. Can someone honestly say that the giant horned/hornless people wouldn't have their own reference in a multi-racial society that followed the Qun? They certainly would. People come up with references all the time in real life, even for the little things. And the Kossith do look quite different than the others. You can be in denial about this, but this question will come up again and again because we dont have enought information. I didn't even know about this thread a week ago, and it has been going on for over a year for this reason.
If a human called a Tal-vashoth qunari, convinced that it is a racial term, then the giant would either attack him, or explain that they aren't qunari. And this race question would rise, just like it does in real life.
David Gaider would have to go through great lenghts to hide this problem if the game was based on Rivain, where the Qun is the prevalent religion in a multi-racial society, if I'm not mistaken. People there would certainly have a racial reference for the Kossith, because they would need it.
I mean, race is used all the time as a reference in the DA universe. Can someone honestly say that the giant horned/hornless people wouldn't have their own reference in a multi-racial society that followed the Qun? They certainly would. People come up with references all the time in real life, even for the little things. And the Kossith do look quite different than the others. You can be in denial about this, but this question will come up again and again because we dont have enought information. I didn't even know about this thread a week ago, and it has been going on for over a year for this reason.
#372
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 07:42
Cainhurst Crow
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Why do we need to cater to the semantically impaired again?
#373
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 07:57
Heimdall
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My point is that when someone says Qunari they could be referring to any of the three groups mentioned.Kikidori wrote...
A) Horned-giants that don't follow the Qun:
Tal-Vashoth is an Qunari term for the Qunari, not for Humans, Elves and Dwarves. We cannot see on the person if they follow the Qun or not to begin with, so we make the assumtion they follow the Qun, like most Qunari do. So most would say Qunari at first. Humans, elves and dwarves would probably stick to Qunari unless the Tal-Vashoth asks you not to.
C) Non-horned-giants that follow the Qun:
At the first glance meeting them, we wouldn't even know they followed the Qun to begin with, much like I can't know what religion you people have, so I would just call them "Elf", "Dwarf" and "Human" once I know they follow the Qun, I would call them Qunari as well. Out of respect.
Also, Tal-Vashoth refers only to those who once followed the Qun but abandoned it. A horned giant born outside the Qun would not be a Tal-Vashoth. Furthermore, elves, dwarves, and humans that abandon the Qun are also referred to as Tal-Vashoth.
#374
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 08:53
Han Shot First
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Kradus9 wrote...
Han Shot First wrote...
Kradus9 wrote...
Then read the thread. We're lacking a definition for the horned race.
No we aren't. Qunari works just fine. Whether a person is referring to the race or the religion depends on the context in which it is used.
Is the word Jewish confusing?
Qunari doesn't work, because there are members of the horned race who actually aren't qunari, but their race remains the same. Just like there are other races who become qunari, but are never part of that race.
This argument is constanlty presented and ignored, and this discussion wont go anywhere so long as people do that.
There also ethnic Jews who don't belong to the Jewish faith.
Kradus9 wrote...
And judeism isn't a race, it's a religious belief. Similiarly to qunari, there are people who dont practice judeism, but share the same ethnicity. Caucasian in this case, but in dept they are refered to as semites, which is an older cultural definition, used as ethnical refrence, just like Kossith. And just like the Qun, Judeism is practiced by multiple races.
ex: East asian guy says:"Im Jewish".
Your generalisation of race and religion would imply a negative. Hence why people keep asking this question, we need more accurate references.
That is incorrect. The word Jewish is an ethnoreligious term, just like the word Qunari. It can refer to either someone of Jewish ethnic descent or someone who belongs to the Jewish faith, or both. Like the word Qunari, it depends on the context in which the word is used.
We don't need some new term to refer to the horned giants, IMO. Qunari works just fine, and I don't have any issues with the Dragon Age lore having the Qunari be an ethnoreligious group.
Modifié par Han Shot First, 06 janvier 2014 - 08:54 .
#375
Posté 06 janvier 2014 - 09:19
Kradus9
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And the point here is that ethnoreligious terms are too broad, and in the case of the qunari/tal-vashoth/convert/non-qunari oxman is insufficient. Which is why people come up with specific references as mentioned.
Modifié par Kradus9, 06 janvier 2014 - 09:22 .
