194 réponses à ce sujet

[Steppenwolf]

ElusiveOneN7 wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

They've released 3 duds back to back(DA2, TOR, ME3). It's not unreasonable to see a trend.

I hear you. I hate that Casey ruined Dragon Age 2 and The Old Republic, that guy just doesnt get it. Anyway I won't even speak on The Old Republic being bad or not, as it's ability to contend with the likes of WoW was doomed from the start. If Star Wars can't even touch WoW then maybe companies need to stop making pay 2 play mmos.

There is only a trend if you want there to be one. I'll be sure to revisit this opinion once I complete Dragon Age 3. My issues with Dragon Age 2 were technical and had nothing to do with the story.

You're intentionally avoiding the point of my post to make it seem ridiculous. Casey Hudson is an employee of Bioware. Bioware makes videos, Casey Hudson is just a part of the process. Bioware is responsible for their last 3 games being duds. Anyone who puts the full blame of ME3's failure on Hudson is ridiculous.

[LinksOcarina]

BasilKarlo wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...
And if you really were tricked by them, then it is your own fault you got suckered

No. Just no. Fraud is illegal for a reason.
I'm not accusing Bioware of criminal fraud, but to say that the victim of deception in any instance is to blame then you are just wrong.

find me an eligable victim first, then you would be right.

No one is a victim here, just like no one is innocent either. Everyone involved in this, from BioWare to EA to the fanbase, is at fault. 

[Steppenwolf]

LinksOcarina wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...
And if you really were tricked by them, then it is your own fault you got suckered

No. Just no. Fraud is illegal for a reason.
I'm not accusing Bioware of criminal fraud, but to say that the victim of deception in any instance is to blame then you are just wrong.

find me an eligable victim first, then you would be right.

No one is a victim here, just like no one is innocent either. Everyone involved in this, from BioWare to EA to the fanbase, is at fault. 

Amazon thought that consumers had a strong enough case to accept returns of copies of ME3. And the BBB found that there was deception in the marketing of the game.

[LinksOcarina]

BasilKarlo wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...
And if you really were tricked by them, then it is your own fault you got suckered

No. Just no. Fraud is illegal for a reason.
I'm not accusing Bioware of criminal fraud, but to say that the victim of deception in any instance is to blame then you are just wrong.

find me an eligable victim first, then you would be right.

No one is a victim here, just like no one is innocent either. Everyone involved in this, from BioWare to EA to the fanbase, is at fault. 

Amazon thought that consumers had a strong enough case to accept returns of copies of ME3. And the BBB found that there was deception in the marketing of the game.

The Better Business Bureau is also accused of being corrupt, and being run by a number of executives who try to hush-hush complaints on their own companies. So their intregity is suspect at best, and not credible as a barometer of good business practices.

As for Amazon, that is their business decision as a company, just like Gamestop has the right to stop selling games from the 1990s or deny trades from customers as they see fit. So again, that tells us nothing since it is an independent decision on the part of the business, not on the part of the quality of the product. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 12 novembre 2012 - 01:51 .

[N7 ElusiveOne]

BasilKarlo wrote...

You're intentionally avoiding the point of my post to make it seem ridiculous. Casey Hudson is an employee of Bioware. Bioware makes videos, Casey Hudson is just a part of the process. Bioware is responsible for their last 3 games being duds. Anyone who puts the full blame of ME3's failure on Hudson is ridiculous.

I thought you were ignorantly assuming the leads of these respective titles got together to share bad ideas. Laidlaw want's to make a party based RPG that appeals to EVERYONE and thus it no longer resembles a RPG at all. Hudson forgot to ask the rest of his team what they thought about Mac's ending and now we have people slowly recovering from depression. They share one thing in common and this is the only through-line I can find for the company. Bioware wishes to make their games appeal to everyone, which includes people who didn't even want to play a rpg in the first place. I assume this is why their games are becoming more simple from a mechanics perspective. However, I can't objectively call this a trend until DA3.

Side note, what's wrong with TOR? It was a mistake to make it but was that the decision of Bioware? Did they really want to make a MMO? In a world where WoW doesn't exist, it's a fine game.

[Versus Omnibus]

I won't lie: I hated the original endings, and I honestly hope Bioware learns that if you're going to make a bitter sweet ending don't over do it.

But I will thank him for the rest of an excellent series that I will enjoy for years. Here's hoping ME4 will be great.

[Steppenwolf]

LinksOcarina wrote...

The Better Business Bureau is also accused of being corrupt, and being run by a number of executives who try to hush-hush complaints on their own companies. So their intregity is suspect at best, and not credible as a barometer of good business practices.

The BBB has been accused of being corrupt since its inception. And yet nothing has ever been proven. Pro tip- businesses don't like being held accountable.

As for Amazon, that is their business decision as a company, just like Gamestop has the right to stop selling games from the 1990s or deny trades from customers as they see fit. So again, that tells us nothing since it is an independent decision on the part of the business, not on the part of the quality of the product. 

This is really nonsensical. Amazon reached an independent conclusion that cost them money, but that someone has nothing to do with ME3?

[Gamer790]

As angry with him as I was and as stupid some the mistakes he's made to have been and as poorly as I believe he handled said mistakes I do believe he is being mostly sincere here. I'm sure he and the people who worked on this trilogy are all decent, talented human beings and I'm sure they wanted to create a game that people would love. I don't know how or why things went to hell like they did and I'm confident it will be a long time yet before its ever revealed. But, for whatever it is worth, thank you Mr. Hudson and the Mass Effect team. I don't trust you right now, but thank you for giving me Mass Effect because I loved (and maybe still do love) it.

Edit

Still hate the endings though.  Not to derail the thread, but I couldn't hold it in.

Modifié par Gamer790, 12 novembre 2012 - 02:22 .

[Fattness132]

This letter says absolutely nothing about how he completely ****ed both his creation and his fans over with his own hubris. Without coming out and at least saying "we made a mistake, it wont happen again", he will remain a person i have absolutely no respect for. As it stands, i will never buy any game with his name on it ever again.

[LinksOcarina]

BasilKarlo wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

The Better Business Bureau is also accused of being corrupt, and being run by a number of executives who try to hush-hush complaints on their own companies. So their intregity is suspect at best, and not credible as a barometer of good business practices.

The BBB has been accused of being corrupt since its inception. And yet nothing has ever been proven. Pro tip- businesses don't like being held accountable.

As for Amazon, that is their business decision as a company, just like Gamestop has the right to stop selling games from the 1990s or deny trades from customers as they see fit. So again, that tells us nothing since it is an independent decision on the part of the business, not on the part of the quality of the product. 

This is really nonsensical. Amazon reached an independent conclusion that cost them money, but that someone has nothing to do with ME3?

To the first point, the integrity is still in question. So why should I trust it or what it says? And if you really want to go this route, what about the UK Advertising Standards Authority, which said the endings were thematically different? Is that corrupt, I don't live in England so I don't know. But this is where the crux of this comes from, subjectivity of interpretation.

As for Amazon, you basically said what I said before. It was an independent conclusion to give money back. They didn't have to do it, but they felt that was right? Does it say anything about the quality of Mass Effect 3? Perhaps it does, but if that was the case why was Amazon the only group offering refunds? Once again, it is subjective of quality in the end.

I am sorry if I am being long-winded, my point is this is all subjective, which is why there is no victim here, and no concrete case to stand on. 

If it goes to court thats a different story. But since that will never happen i'm not sure why we are arguing over this. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 12 novembre 2012 - 02:15 .

[megamacka]

FlamingBoy wrote...

megamacka wrote...

Paying that small amount for years and years of his time, dedication and passion. Id say that he gave more than he took.

well that is just rediculous, but if you believe that it is your business

What's so ridicilous about that? 
They create a game / story based upon their vision, we can choose to either buy it or not. How much money do you make an hour?  His spent hours and hours every day for years to create something, you can choose to spend a small amount of money or you many not. It's up to you. 


  He gave us ME1 and 2, and 3 if you liked the game too but not the ending. He gave so much more than he took away, you're still here. So obviously you still care about the series. These people are human beings, they are not evil machines conjured by black magic from satan in order to exploit you.












..... Or are they? 

Modifié par megamacka, 12 novembre 2012 - 02:17 .

[WoolyJoe]

breyant wrote...

Casey seems like a really nice guy. He shouldn't be thanking us, we should be thanking him. Regardless of how you feel about ME3, he gave us one of the greatest sci-fi trilogies of all time. I have spent literally hundreds of hours playing these three games and I don't regret a second of it.

[MegaSovereign]

Thank you Casey and the ME team.

I loved the ME trilogy.

[WoolyJoe]

Fattness132 wrote...

This letter says absolutely nothing about how he completely ****ed both his creation and his fans over with his own hubris. Without coming out and at least saying "we made a mistake, it wont happen again", he will remain a person i have absolutely no respect for. As it stands, i will never buy any game with his name on it ever again.

So you come here because...?

[don-mika]

Mass Effect <3
Casey<3

[Steppenwolf]

LinksOcarina wrote...

If it goes to court thats a different story. But since that will never happen i'm not sure why we are arguing over this. 

We're arguing about this because you said that if you believe what Bioware tells you then you then it's your fault when they fail to deliver on their promises. Whether or not you see anyone in this particular as victims is irrelevant. What you're positing is "blame the victim."

[Zkyire]

breyant wrote...

Casey seems like a really nice guy. He shouldn't be thanking us, we should be thanking him. Regardless of how you feel about ME3, he gave us one of the greatest sci-fi trilogies of all time. I have spent literally hundreds of hours playing these three games and I don't regret a second of it.

We did thank him.

With $60 each.

[MrFob]

I love the ME universe and I thank Casey and the team for making it. Despite the whole ending issue, I had hundreds of hours of fun with the games and the books. For that, they have my deepest respect and gratitude and while I am very skeptical about the future of this franchise, I am also curious.

Making this whole thank you letter up around this trilogy box is a bit weird however, given it's contents and the timing of its release.

[FlamingBoy]

megamacka wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

megamacka wrote...

Paying that small amount for years and years of his time, dedication and passion. Id say that he gave more than he took.

well that is just rediculous, but if you believe that it is your business

What's so ridicilous about that? 
They create a game / story based upon their vision, we can choose to either buy it or not. How much money do you make an hour?  His spent hours and hours every day for years to create something, you can choose to spend a small amount of money or you many not. It's up to you. 


  He gave us ME1 and 2, and 3 if you liked the game too but not the ending. He gave so much more than he took away, you're still here. So obviously you still care about the series. These people are human beings, they are not evil machines conjured by black magic from satan in order to exploit you.












..... Or are they? 

Your right the man who made my washing machine shared is vision with all of us, Now i can watch my clothes tumble in circles for hours, and the energy conservation my its top notch helping the environment could only be the creators genius and I should somehow be thankful for it.

You essentially have reguritated all the pro-developer arguments that been made for the last few years, buy it or not, they are human NOT evil machines. The whole thing is just complete nonsense. Not to mention the weird juxtaposition between a purley capitalistic argument of buying stuff followed by a humanist argument that all products are made by casey whos a human and we should support him.

the whole thing is just weird

[FlamingBoy]

WoolyJoe wrote...

Fattness132 wrote...

This letter says absolutely nothing about how he completely ****ed both his creation and his fans over with his own hubris. Without coming out and at least saying "we made a mistake, it wont happen again", he will remain a person i have absolutely no respect for. As it stands, i will never buy any game with his name on it ever again.

So you come here because...?

Didn't realise this was forum was the casey fan club;)

[Gamer790]

MrFob wrote...

I love the ME universe and I thank Casey and the team for making it. Despite the whole ending issue, I had hundreds of hours of fun with the games and the books. For that, they have my deepest respect and gratitude and while I am very skeptical about the future of this franchise, I am also curious.

Making this whole thank you letter up around this trilogy box is a bit weird however, given it's contents and the timing of its release.

This might be naive of me, but I'm guessing this is a way of showing that he does care about his fans.

[TheShadowWolf911]

ElusiveOneN7 wrote...

Mr Cloud wrote...

Oh, looks like Casey is finally leaving his bunker. But nah, this sweet talk ain't gonna work.

You can't still be bitter about the ending. If anything lets hope Bioware has learned something from all of this.

you'd be amazed how long people can remain angry.

[FlamingBoy]

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

ElusiveOneN7 wrote...

Mr Cloud wrote...

Oh, looks like Casey is finally leaving his bunker. But nah, this sweet talk ain't gonna work.

You can't still be bitter about the ending. If anything lets hope Bioware has learned something from all of this.

you'd be amazed how long people can remain angry.

People don't like being tricked

[LinksOcarina]

BasilKarlo wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

If it goes to court thats a different story. But since that will never happen i'm not sure why we are arguing over this. 

We're arguing about this because you said that if you believe what Bioware tells you then you then it's your fault when they fail to deliver on their promises. Whether or not you see anyone in this particular as victims is irrelevant. What you're positing is "blame the victim."

All I said was that  pre-release hype is bull**** and anyone who falls for it dug their own grave. This goes for anything entertainment related really, not just what BioWare said. 

If that is blaming the victim, then it's blaming the victim. I stand by my statement in the end, so don't try to equate it as something malignant, when in this case it is fairly appropriate since its dealing with something as superfluous as entertainment.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 12 novembre 2012 - 03:27 .

[TheShadowWolf911]

FlamingBoy wrote...

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

ElusiveOneN7 wrote...

Mr Cloud wrote...

Oh, looks like Casey is finally leaving his bunker. But nah, this sweet talk ain't gonna work.

You can't still be bitter about the ending. If anything lets hope Bioware has learned something from all of this.

you'd be amazed how long people can remain angry.

People don't like being tricked

indeed we don't, i still haven't actually played ME3's single player due to that ending. What little trust remained after DA2 (which for the record i didn't hate the story of, just the gameplay.......and lack of race selection, my largest gripe alongside the terrible gameplay decisions)