208 réponses à ce sujet

[kyban]

clarkusdarkus wrote...

Well im all for it as isn't that why we level up in a game? i mean killing the same reapers at level 5 then again at level 60 is no different, the whole point of levelling up is to have someone of equal ability to use it again , aka boss's of sorts, or upgraded enemies....ME3 was ****** easy and actually mocks the RPG genre.

Not many other reasons for leveling up in a game.

Taking away bosses also feels less like an RPG to me as well... Maybe its just me.
And removing a final boss because it's too "video gamey" also feels like they're removing the RPG even more.

[skate4tacos96]

I'd like to see the RPG elements come back.

[Nerevar-as]

sharkboy421 wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...
What strategy? No power other than Warp was useful until you dropped enemy defenses. By that time 95% of the enemies are as good as dead without bothering to waste a cooldown before Warping the next enemy defenses. Only time I bothered using other power against mooks was against husks.

No way.  Singularity was great at locking guys in place even if they were shielded.  Even elites and bosses (dudes with 3 layers) could be held in place by it.  Use a singularity to lock down a group, then either shoot away their shields or have someone overload them, and finally follow it up with a warp bomb.  My adept run was one of the smoothest ME2 Insanity runs I've ever had.

All I ever got from maxed sigularity was a very brief stagger and minor shield stripping, I´ll give it another try if I play the game again. Shockwave was useless, maxing pull and throw also felt unnecesary unless you wanted to do the combos by yourself. Besides, thanks to defenses Jack was a pathetic squadie, Freeze powers close to useless, and same for Neural Shock. Anyway, excluding a few points, ME2 Insanity was really easy for me with any class outside Vanguard (never got the hang of Charge), it just got tedious. At least in ME1 and ME3 I felt powerful and not slightly bored as in ME2. I enjoyed Binary Domain much more as a cover shooter (and a few great boss fights).

What I´d really like to know is why BW got scared of developing characters´ skills (and even skills themselves) and crafting and modding, when AFAIK it´s something that´s getting included in many non-RPGs. In ME2 I felt like the player´s intelligence was severely understimated.

[Fireblader70]

Well, I don't know if it's strictly an RPG element, but full-on immersion like ME1 was exactly what got me into the series in the first place.

Being able to walk around the Citadel, go up elevators, enter the Normandy, go through an airlock scene and enter in the ship without a typical loading screen was great. Not perfect, due to the waiting time, but it was better than what ME2 and 3 replaced it with. Gave a sense of scale.

But yeah, I felt that was missing in the sequels. In fact, despite how good it is, ME2 is lower than ME1 on my list simply because it kept saying 'THIS IS A GAME' half the time.

[Linkenski]

I miss getting XP from killing enemies, though it should be balanced in ME4 if they choose to have it again. I also love the fact that you can manage equipment at all times in ME1, but it also had its fair share of flaws, but that's something they could improve upon in ME4 aswell.

[mjh417]

ME3 did it just right, on everything with this. All they need to do is improve on that.

[Catroi]

it isn't like Bioware is known to be the best WRPG developer... oh wait

[LinksOcarina]

mjh417 wrote...

ME3 did it just right, on everything with this. All they need to do is improve on that.

Pretty much this.

It had the most balance in the end that made combat engaging and strategic enough to succeed, with enough options to make it work and have depth.

Although the only issue now is the desire to stop min/maxing but everyone does it so ive given up on that. 

[Binary_Helix 1]

Nerevar-as wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

I'm currently replaying ME2 (with no desire to import into ME3 ) as an Adept on Insanity. It's nowehere near as useless as people claim.
I get that they wanted to make ME3 more balanced and caster-friendly, and that's fine. But they went to a ridiculous extreme in the opposite direction.

It´s still the weakest. class, which did hurt considering it was by far the strongest in ME1. By the time you drop enemy defenses it´s more useful to keep shooting than use a biotic power. Singularity it´s almost useless, just briefly staggering enemies and dropping around 1/4 of their shileds. Shockwave is also rather useless. In ME3 biotics are fun again, but I think allowing detonations with any combination was going too far.

Great guide on ME2 Adept with videos going from start to finish. He does pretty well and the powers seem very useful.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/261/index/8743091/1

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 12 novembre 2012 - 09:37 .

[Nerevar-as]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

I'm currently replaying ME2 (with no desire to import into ME3 ) as an Adept on Insanity. It's nowehere near as useless as people claim.
I get that they wanted to make ME3 more balanced and caster-friendly, and that's fine. But they went to a ridiculous extreme in the opposite direction.

It´s still the weakest. class, which did hurt considering it was by far the strongest in ME1. By the time you drop enemy defenses it´s more useful to keep shooting than use a biotic power. Singularity it´s almost useless, just briefly staggering enemies and dropping around 1/4 of their shileds. Shockwave is also rather useless. In ME3 biotics are fun again, but I think allowing detonations with any combination was going too far.

Great guide on ME2 Adept with videos going from start to finish. He does pretty well and the powers seem very useful.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/261/index/8743091/1

Thanks. I´ll try it when/if I get in the mood to play ME again, so far I can´t go back without the endings spoiling the experience.

[Gimmethayayo]

A RESOUNDING YES

[Gimmethayayo]

Things I like were the different armors and ammo types.

ME2 gave the ammo powers to classes which I didn't like.

I also like armor having specific "powers" as well

[ioannisdenton]

Nerevar-as wrote...

sharkboy421 wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...
What strategy? No power other than Warp was useful until you dropped enemy defenses. By that time 95% of the enemies are as good as dead without bothering to waste a cooldown before Warping the next enemy defenses. Only time I bothered using other power against mooks was against husks.

No way.  Singularity was great at locking guys in place even if they were shielded.  Even elites and bosses (dudes with 3 layers) could be held in place by it.  Use a singularity to lock down a group, then either shoot away their shields or have someone overload them, and finally follow it up with a warp bomb.  My adept run was one of the smoothest ME2 Insanity runs I've ever had.

All I ever got from maxed sigularity was a very brief stagger and minor shield stripping, I´ll give it another try if I play the game again. Shockwave was useless, maxing pull and throw also felt unnecesary unless you wanted to do the combos by yourself. Besides, thanks to defenses Jack was a pathetic squadie, Freeze powers close to useless, and same for Neural Shock. Anyway, excluding a few points, ME2 Insanity was really easy for me with any class outside Vanguard (never got the hang of Charge), it just got tedious. At least in ME1 and ME3 I felt powerful and not slightly bored as in ME2. I enjoyed Binary Domain much more as a cover shooter (and a few great boss fights).

What I´d really like to know is why BW got scared of developing characters´ skills (and even skills themselves) and crafting and modding, when AFAIK it´s something that´s getting included in many non-RPGs. In ME2 I felt like the player´s intelligence was severely understimated.

in me2 on insanity everything is viable. you said about cryo powers.. well they rock in in sanity in me2. Squad cryo ammo is the best ammo for squad. especially for a vanguard. Mordin had such a small coolddown for cryo blast that it was a beast. whatever he stripoped he was blasting it then kaboom. If shepard was a sentinell cryo was a beast to play with. On insanity. try it.  Stripping th enemies from shields and armor was half the job. they could still destroy you in secs on insanity. Cryo blast was better than just warp and incinerate in health-only enemies. 

[sg1fan75]

yes!

[kyban]

Fireblader70 wrote...

Well, I don't know if it's strictly an RPG element, but full-on immersion like ME1 was exactly what got me into the series in the first place.

Being able to walk around the Citadel, go up elevators, enter the Normandy, go through an airlock scene and enter in the ship without a typical loading screen was great. Not perfect, due to the waiting time, but it was better than what ME2 and 3 replaced it with. Gave a sense of scale.

But yeah, I felt that was missing in the sequels. In fact, despite how good it is, ME2 is lower than ME1 on my list simply because it kept saying 'THIS IS A GAME' half the time.

1,000 times this.

Particularly the part about the airlock. So yeah, everyone hates load times, and no one wants to stand around waiting for something to happen. But that tiny little airlock scene where they scan you for decontamination is great because it adds yet another lair of immersion. You feel like you're in the world. I miss stuff like this.


I still feel that if we keep brining up the same things we want, Bioware will hear.

And it sounds like we want:

• RPG elements to come back
• full wheel dialogues
• immersion and/or exploration back

I'm just seeing a pattern in this thread alone of things we want to come back, or see more of. Hopefully if we can keep sending the message someone will notice.

[MattH]

I think it all depends on the style of game they're going for really, along with the character. I for one would like to see loot become a feature in the new game (opening up more options for armor customization, powers amps, weapon mods etc) but if the main character is say, a spectre, I can't see them running around and rummaging corpses. But if we were a merc or hired muscle or an assassin, I could see that working.

I'd also like more control over my party, like Dragon Age. I'd like to be able to control each team mate rather than push left and right to order them around.

[kyban]

LinksOcarina wrote...

mjh417 wrote...

ME3 did it just right, on everything with this. All they need to do is improve on that.

Pretty much this.

It had the most balance in the end that made combat engaging and strategic enough to succeed, with enough options to make it work and have depth.

Although the only issue now is the desire to stop min/maxing but everyone does it so ive given up on that. 

I have no problem with ME's combat system. I just want the RPG to have a bigger impact, more than it has been.
ME1 is my favorite, and it was the first in the series, I would like the game to remember its roots.

Ideally I would like to see the same kind of combat from ME3, but really pump up the RPG elements in the next game.

More in depth skill trees for one. Exploring open worlds to find better gear and to help you level up would be nice too. Leveling up and gaining skill points should mean something, players should have to make choices in how they want to specialize a character.
Getting max level and owning all your skills is nice. But max level should either take a couple of full playthroughs, or spending all your points shouldn't give you just about everything. That way you have to think about what skill points you spend.

RPG means role playing game, so it's more than just leveling up and spending skill points. It means more full wheel dialogues too, even with minor characters. Like the Janitor on Noveria, or the C-sec guy who's a fan of Shepard (ME1, don't remember his name.. starts with an "L"?)

I also like item managing, but that's just me ;p

[David7204]

"Exploration' in the first game consisted of driving around on cookie-cutter planets with recycled levels looking for rocks. ME 2 and ME 3 did a much better job of making the world immersive than ME 1 did.

[valkulon]

What RPG elements are missing from ME3 that were in ME1/2? I keep hearing people saying this, but no one is offering up anything other than go talk to this person for me Quests.

To me ME2 and 3 pretty much contained the same amounts of RPG vs Combat so I'm confused when people say that they had less RPG.

NINJA EDIT: I know the dialogue wheel lacking a Neutral option is one of the less RPG aspects and I agree with everyone being upset that it was gone as I'm in the same boat.

But other than those two things what is missing?

Modifié par Valhart, 13 novembre 2012 - 02:38 .

[rapscallioness]

I hope so. I really do.

I gotta tell you true, I never experienced anything like that before I picked up a BW game. ME1.

Before that, well, it had always been me as the player just put on the rails and shoved out the door. Mind you, I enjoyed many of those games, but....

I was so accustomed to this that even after I picked up ME1--which I knew nothing about--I played as Sheploo because I just assumed that was it. Yes, I clicked right pass the opening menu stuff. Just click, click, click let's go.

It wasn't until something odd was happening between Sheploo and Ash that I was like...wait a minute.

I went back and it was like a revelation. I can play as a female? Design her the way I want? Choose what I'm gonna say? How I'm gonna say it? Explore as I see fit? Equip myself and squaddies w/the best weapons and armor? (which I feel as the leader of the group is my responsibility).

I loved that. It turned me out. It was like chains had fallen off.

I want that back. Updated and improved, no doubt. But I miss it.

I know it's not an issue for some, but for me the auto-dialogue just about killed the experience. I kept wanting to jump in, and I wasn't allowed to. That frustrated me. Having to sit there and just watch my game--my BW! game--go on without me.

Also, I wanted them to improve the exploration, not scrap it.

What BW seemed to be trying to do was what set it above and beyond any other game I had come across. A great balance between sandbox and shooter.

I want my BW back...

[David7204]

ME 1 did not have exploration. It didn't. Hearing that over and over gets incredibly annoying. It had recycled levels and cookie-cutter planets. The set pieces in ME 2 and ME 3 are far, far better than anything seen in ME 1.

[rapscallioness]

Yes, ME1 had recycled levels and cookie-cutter planets which I still got to explore if I wanted. ME2 and ME3 looked better, but I didn't get to explore if I wanted.

I had hoped they would improve the exploration. Planets that were more alive. Had something going on. Had more variety.

But instead I got platforms and more inside environments.

[David7204]

Mass Effect is not an open world game. It's not a sandbox. And it isn't going to be.

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

Mass Effect is not an open world game. It's not a sandbox. And it isn't going to be.

Anything can happen.