192 réponses à ce sujet

[Agent Zoot]

Kasumi Goto! God, please! I want here as a L.I

[spirosz]

This is not a hate thread people, you dislike Ashley, that's cool, don't need to state it over and over, just saying. I'd rather the thread not get closed, like most do.

[CHALET]

Any but Liara.

[Steelcan]

I think all the ME2 romances (excluding the Dextro's) and Traynor, Cortez, and yes even Allers deserve better content.

[fiendishchicken]

Well, I think of it as a matter of fairness. I think all the romances need to be brought up to the level of Liara's. And there needs to be more resonance within the story. Make the relationship matter to Shepard. Make it unique to each Shepard.

@Sable: Yeah I was kinda dumbstruck by it. My Shepard blew up the CB, more because he thought it was bad than because he didn't trust Cerberus with it.

[Steelcan]

Most romances get a cut to black (if that) Liara gets a freakin sex tape.

[fiendishchicken]

I know. That's why I loved Miranda's romance scene in ME2. It was tasteful and raw at the same time. It was sexy yet chaste enough for a video game at the same time.

I also wanted more of a fluff/pillow talk scene with Miranda. And a proper kiss as well.

Also, some kind of memento (like the pictures in ME1) although not so much a picture as an important item or something that you can have Shepard sit and interact with in the cabin that is meaningful to your particular romance.

[CptData]

That picture is a must have - but hey, all the good details from ME1 or ME2 went south in ME3. At least we can catch the space hamster and re-collect all ship models - but my holoframe is gone.
WHY?! *cries*

Nah, seriously: it's about those details we're missing in every romance, right? And some details are plain wrong, like taking a shower in underwear to move into a stereotypical lesbian scene ...

[LisuPL]

Nyreen lol.

[Sable Rhapsody]

fiendishchicken wrote...

@Sable: Yeah I was kinda dumbstruck by it. My Shepard blew up the CB, more because he thought it was bad than because he didn't trust Cerberus with it.

For my more pro-Cerberus ManShep's playthrough, I SAVED the Collector Base.  I gave Cerberus all the help I could (short of condemning David to Project Overlord, I just can't bring myself to do that), was buddies with the Illusive Man, the whole nine yards.

Talk about whiplash come ME3 

[fiendishchicken]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

@Sable: Yeah I was kinda dumbstruck by it. My Shepard blew up the CB, more because he thought it was bad than because he didn't trust Cerberus with it.

For my more pro-Cerberus ManShep's playthrough, I SAVED the Collector Base.  I gave Cerberus all the help I could (short of condemning David to Project Overlord, I just can't bring myself to do that), was buddies with the Illusive Man, the whole nine yards.

Talk about whiplash come ME3 

I don't like the CB. Nothing good can come from it. I didn't trust Cerberus with it. I didn't trust anybody with it. Yet I somehow feel that what happened at Sanctuary was ingenious in finding a way to control the Reapers. I don't agree with it, but imagine what could have been accomplished if Cerberus was on our side.

[Sable Rhapsody]

fiendishchicken wrote...
I don't agree with it, but imagine what could have been accomplished if Cerberus was on our side.

Heaven forbid that we get morally ambiguous, nuanced writing for Cerberus <_<

Though it's a symptom of a larger problem in ME3, which is sidelining the ME2 plot, factions, and characters.  Except for Legion and Mordin, and they usually both die.

[shepskisaac]

Steve needs more content!

[Sable Rhapsody]

IsaacShep wrote...

Steve needs more content!

+1.  Steve is made of win, even if you don't romance him. 

[Luigitornado]

VS

[AlexMBrennan]

Any of them - they all work fine for newcomers to the series only (i.e. for those that haven't played ME1 or ME2), which is perhaps not surprising...

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 15 novembre 2012 - 04:52 .

[RGC_Ines]

Cashmoney007 wrote...

 

I was always with Liara so my romance choice worked in ME3.  I am sure some of you wanted to be with Miranda more or even Jack?  Maybe some of you didn't really care about that and just wanted to be with somebody else in the game?

I think that all ME2 romances was screwed..Personally I would want BioWare " fix up" Thane's romance. And it isn't neccessery " Cure for Thane" ( while it could be nice to have a chance to save Thane). But the romance when all dialog is about another male, pathetic intimate scene ( in a front of everyone in Huerta hospital..terrible), lack of emotions from Shepard after her LI was badly wounded, lack of Thane in any Codex, also no one mentioned him after his death, fact that before EC he wasn't even in a retrospection..that was terrible.
But tbh I havn't any hope that BioWare will change anything....  

[Legbiter]

RShara wrote...

Why do you have to bring insults into a single thread in a single forum, that you are free to not click on?

Listen and understand. Those romance fiends are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop, ever, until every thread on the forums is romance related.

[Calaida]

Fem-Shepard and Ashley's romance... please make it happen..

Modifié par Calaida, 15 novembre 2012 - 01:02 .

[Nightwriter]

Constant Motion wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Constant Motion wrote...

[edited for size!]

That's a mighty big pile o' BS ya got thar.

Yours, meanwhile, is mercifully small!

I'm sure you've got lots of interesting things to say about what I posted, but swearing at me isn't one of them. I'm not trying to persuade anyone here with my post, I'm not insisting I'm right, I'm just offering my opinion in response to a public question - but if you think it's that important that I rethink my perspective... go on! Persuade me! Even if I disagree with you, I might have at least learnt something, might've seen things from a new angle, and even if not I'll have enjoyed a civil, friendly exchange of ideas. That'd be brilliant! That's how the internet should be!

K.

In depth response:
(you asked for it, don't blame me when your eyes faint and die from labor exhaustion):

"Every relationship is different, and so is every romance different. It's not a relationship simulator, it's a story simulator. We've got doomed relationships, forgotten relationships, rekindled loves, secret relationships... and they all make a lot of sense for each character. I'm quite pleased that they weren't all these fairy tale romances, weren't these big stories where you fight the reapers, hand in hand."

Basically, what I got out of this was:

"The ME1 character romances -- all of them were naturally fated to culminate in fairytale endings. Naturally.

And all of the ME2 character romances -- all of them were naturally fated to culminate in weak, hurtful, or tragic endings. Naturally. BioWare is to be applauded for it."

This seems like bias to me, because it's completely and totally one-sided. The ME1 LI's do pretty much fight the Reapers with you hand in hand -- there's comfort, camaraderie, being there for each other. The only LI's who don't get this are the ME2 ones. So it seems like you are justifying a disservice and hiding it under the guise of "appropriate treatment over equality" or "all love involves risk." The former fails to take into account that very little of what they did with the ME2 LI's in ME3 was appropriate. The latter fails to take into account that even risky relationships are given the attention and drama they deserve in good fiction, and the ME2 romances were given no such consideration. These were not tragedies, these were hack jobs.

So, the broad outline of your point is already baffling me. But then you get into the details:

"All the outcomes of the ME2 relationships make sense."

And I realize the specifics aren't any better. Now I'm lost.

"You knew how important Cerberus was to Miranda - and, equally, how important Miranda was to Cerberus." Which is why it makes no sense whatsoever and constitutes the bulk of the complaint. The entire protest about Miranda's content in ME3 is that they didn't give her ENOUGH Cerberus content. Miranda should have been directly relevant to the ME3 Cerberus arc, yet instead of expanding on that, they sent her off chasing Oriana again. So, to be clear, instead of giving us new, pertinent content, they resurrected a story that has already been resolved. Meanwhile, Cerberus has gone completely nuts, and Miranda (the Cerberus cheerleader) is almost totally unresponsive to it in any substantial way.

Why does this matter to the romance?

1.) Because the minute BioWare decides a character will not be a part of the story, the risk of that character's romance being written off or half-assed skyrockets. So, when a character has a great story reason to be present, and also happens to be your favorite, you tend to let out a big "hey! no fair!" when they still don't include them.

2.) Not all fans are actually only interested in the romantic aspect of a character. Some of us accept the whole package and consider certain traits and facets important and intrinsic to our very ability to appreciate said character. Miranda's Cerberus thing is no different than Liara's archaeology thing -- and Miranda being unresponsive and Oriana-obsessed is the same as the Shadow Broker network rebelling, turning evil, trying to sabotage our efforts against the Reapers, and Liara being almost completely unresponsive to all of it, except to say, "They've captured Feron again! Must go rescue him, bye!"

"You knew your long term prospects with Thane were limited." People keep saying this, and they're missing the point. Well points, plural. Which are:

1. BioWare led Thane fans on, gave them hope for a cure. Probably wasn't intentional on their part, but it still stung. People keep acting like Thane's death was a guarantee and his fans should've known that, but thanks to BioWare, there was sunlight shining in through a hole in the wall for his fans.

2. Ignoring BioWare's false hope drives: It was their decision to sell Thane's romance as a meaningful, tragic love story. What is objectionable is that they did not follow through on that decision. Thane's tragedy was completed. His tragic love story was not. Thane fans were given no love scene, few meaningful moments -- and a Shepard who didn't even romance Thane got the same death scene as one who did. To translate: someone who may not care about Thane at all experiences his death the same way as someone who is guaranteed to care about him. This specific complaint is not a matter of Thane fans being gypped because he died; it's a matter of them being gypped because even his death was not given the treatment it deserved. You can grieve more for the Virmire loss than for Thane, as a romanced femShep. His romance arc seems to be completely ignored -- he goes completely from a "renewed will to live" mindset in ME2 to a "resigned to death" mindset in ME3. And I am to believe they handled him consistently and appropriately.

3. BioWare already admitted they dropped the ball with Thane. How can people keep saying they did the right thing when they've already said they did the wrong thing? I don't get it.

"You knew Jacob's history and his character before you got into a relationship with him." What exactly about Jacob's history screamed "dirty cheater"? By all appearances he seemed like a pretty solid guy. He had one past relationship that it seemed like the other person ended. He wouldn't start a family because he didn't think his job would be fair to them. He took his own father to task for the crimes he committed and stuck to his morality in defiance of any nepotism. He gave Shepard the straight story on Lazarus Station, seemingly in defiance of superior orders. He was always straight with people, appreciated being treated the same, and seemed to dislike deceit and manipulation.

So, looking at all this, it seems like you're ignoring or fabricating a lot in order to warp reality into a state where BioWare gave the ME2 LI's "pleasing, appropriate treatment." When in fact the exact opposite is closer to the truth -- BioWare warped reality (what was plausible and in-character) to give these characters "displeasing, inappropriate treatment."

Which brings me back to the main point -- it seems like these characters aren't something you're much interested in. I mean, Jack's dead in your playthrough. You were surprised Thane was even in the game. I really can't blame you for not caring; not everyone can possibly care about everything. I don't care overmuch about Kelly Chambers' romance. I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who do, and who were really hoping for more content that I'm really not all that concerned about.

But at the same time, you have to wonder that if you simply do not care, how can you possibly have anymore perspective on it than I do on... well, Kelly's romance? Chances are you're just going to end up trying to defend the fact that the way you experienced it felt just fine. And for you, it was. There's nothing wrong with that, and it isn't under attack. It's just that the way I experienced it felt very very not fine.

Also, I gave the short first response because:

• I knew my full response would be really really really long and I wasn't sure it was worth 1+ hours.
• It was late and I was tired and I gave up.
• The BSN has not given me much confidence in people in general.
• I had Skyrim open in another window.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 15 novembre 2012 - 02:57 .

[CptData]

^ It was worth the 1+ hour of writing.
Kudos to you. Especially on the Miranda part.

Modifié par CptData, 15 novembre 2012 - 02:25 .

[RShara]

Amazing write-up, Nightwriter. Agree with every single point!

[fiendishchicken]

Incredibly awesome Nightwriter.

Absolutely correct. Nail on the hammer. I would say especially to a certain character, but they all stood out.

Miranda though is my favorite through default.

[PrimeOfValor]

Additions and improvements (even smallest ones) to almost all of them. Most Notably Miranda and Jack

The interaction of Liara after thessia even as LI: Disappointing. Should have a hug option or something similar to Tali in ME2 at the loss of her father.

Last moments with Thane: Femshep should have bend on her knees and cry for thane.

And Jacob: femShep should have said: "Screw u, Jacob"

Modifié par bigmass41, 15 novembre 2012 - 03:29 .

[Estelindis]

Well said, Nightwriter. I was going to say "particularly about Jacob," but after a moment's reflection I realised that your analysis for all the characters you discussed was spot on.