335 réponses à ce sujet

[Learn To Love Yourself]

In all honesty, I don't believe the Reegar was as much of a game changer as the Acolyte is. I love the variety the gun has brought to the game, and I don't really feel it makes certain classes more viable, though it does both give a strategic edge once used properly and gives another option of use for powers, which is a benefit in my mind.

[Relix28]

Stardusk wrote...

Volksvarg wrote...

100RenegadePoints wrote...

Does anyone still remember this ?
http://social.biowar...ndex/13391682/1

^
This, absolutely brilliant. Final nail in coffin and...
/thread

Not at all. What I said in the earlier thread is still valid. It is good the charge mechanic is gone. But I never endorsed then or now using this weapon as the primary means of making builds viable or good. You have some strange logic if you think that old thread has anything to do with the topic. I never even mentioned the charge mechanic in this thread, others did.

I wouldn't  have mentioned it either, if I were you.

[Stardusk]

Operator m1 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Volksvarg wrote...

100RenegadePoints wrote...

Does anyone still remember this ?
http://social.biowar...ndex/13391682/1

^
This, absolutely brilliant. Final nail in coffin and...
/thread

Not at all. What I said in the earlier thread is still valid. It is good the charge mechanic is gone. But I never endorsed then or now using this weapon as the primary means of making builds viable or good. You have some strange logic if you think that old thread has anything to do with the topic. I never even mentioned the charge mechanic in this thread, others did.

You said the acolyte would be 'fairly useful' without the charge mechanic before. Now you're proclaiming it to be the cornerstone of the majority of loadouts in much the same way people bash the harrier.

What changed? The charge mechanic is gone. Hmmm....

Doesn't make it any less funny seeing as you authored both of these threads.

I still did not mention the charge mechanic in this thread. Fairly useful yes, exclusively useful, no. The lack of charge did make it easier to use so there needs to be some balancing to the weapon. When people tell you that a shield/barrier flamer build is bad because you can use the Acolyte, something is wrong.

[megabeast37215]

Stardusk wrote...
 But I never endorsed then or now using this weapon as the primary means of making builds viable or good.

Honestly... what's wrong with it making other builds good? Should we have less variety? Should Pull go back to being worthless? Should the FQE still struggle so much with shields that she is considered bottom of the barrel?

[Operator m1]

Stardusk wrote...

I still did not mention the charge mechanic in this thread. Fairly useful yes, exclusively useful, no. The lack of charge did make it easier to use so there needs to be some balancing to the weapon. When people tell you that a shield/barrier flamer build is bad because you can use the Acolyte, something is wrong.

When your suggestion became a reality, that happened.

At least you're indirectly admitting your own suggstion to remove the charge mechanic on the acolyte with little consideration to much else was flawed.

Modifié par Operator m1, 13 novembre 2012 - 01:45 .

[Stardusk]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...
 But I never endorsed then or now using this weapon as the primary means of making builds viable or good.

Honestly... what's wrong with it making other builds good? Should we have less variety? Should Pull go back to being worthless? Should the FQE still struggle so much with shields that she is considered bottom of the barrel?

Making builds good with a weapon is fine, saying build X is bad because you can just use an Acolyte is not.

[Charaxan]

I have no problem seening the damage reduced, as they don't touch the shield damage. The entire purpose of this gun IS to be great against shields; it is an Asari sidearm used in complementarity of biotics.
I don't understand. I use this weapon since it is out, and always been basilisk with it. The team got rid of the charging time because "you know, missile glitch LOL". Now you want to nerf it ? I Can't say I understand.

Of course, in Bronze you can kill geth troopers with it. With an avenger also. Same time.
Of course, in Silver, you can still do damage with it.
Try to do that in gold...against shielded opponent, if you are not a biotic, you will need first shot to strip shield, then two or three shots. Meaning : 3 or 4 seconds just for a hunter or a missile glitcher. If he doesn't dodge. Yeah, he is staggered, but you still are in gold, and with a carniflex and a headshot, you would have got him in two shots. A Turian soldier with a Locust made for headshots will be far more efficient...
So, before complaining about those things, makes sure you compared it too what's comparable. I never, never killed any ennemies in one shot with it. Can't say the same for almost any other pistols....

[Ashen One]

So you're just mad because people said your Geth Soldier build was bad for taking shield damage in Flamer.

Okay then.

[megabeast37215]

Stardusk wrote...
Making builds good with a weapon is fine, saying build X is bad because you can just use an Acolyte is not.

That's actually a very fair point... and honestly, when I start feeling that type of logic creep in... it usually means a weapon is OP. The last weapon I felt that way about was the Piranha... any class would be less than optimal, if you weren't using a Piranha.

I still feel the weapon could be just as amazing as it is now by reducing the damage by half, and doubling the shield/barrier modifier... so it does less damage to health.

[Charaxan]

Oh, if I may add :

DPS for the acolyte (in burst) is 264.9
DPS for... Geth Plasma SMG is... 268.


Yeah, sure we have an OP pistol.

[krknight]

i'm just curious, is there an extensive list of characters that are OP because of the acolyte?

other than being light, once barriers are stripped, it's useless. my acolyte X is worthless against the collectors unless there are praetorians with their shields active. go kill a scion with one...

edit:  come to think of it, try to killing anything with it's barriers/shields already gone.  it's great against mooks, but there are plenty of other lightweight weapons too.

Modifié par krknight, 13 novembre 2012 - 01:59 .

[Operator m1]

megabeast37215 wrote...

That's actually a very fair point... and honestly, when I start feeling that type of logic creep in... it usually means a weapon is OP. The last weapon I felt that way about was the Piranha... any class would be less than optimal, if you weren't using a Piranha.

I still feel the weapon could be just as amazing as it is now by reducing the damage by half, and doubling the shield/barrier modifier... so it does less damage to health.

Not really defending the acolyte, but it's not really a do-everything weapon, considering most other guns (and even powers) are better against health and armor.

To a degree, weapon-power synergy like that is perfectly fine. In a sense, you could take the shield/barrier damage flamer, and use a weapon with an armor damage multiplier. I don't see biotic kits using the acolyte so much as a large problem either. It has a niche, like many other guns. (I prefer the talon for my biotics anyway. Preference.)

It compements a kit more than making a kit's tools redundant to me.

Modifié par Operator m1, 13 novembre 2012 - 02:03 .

[BattleCop88]

Whatever happened to the 'to each his own' feel of the game? This might make my playing style more difficult. I consider myself an anti-armor player. Shields and barriers were always my weakness. The inability to fire this weapon until fully charged made the acolyte very frustrating, as I don't have hours to spend each day practicing using it. The removal of the charge mechanic was a godsend for those of us who don't have time to master this gun, or any for that matter.

[DHKany]

Charaxan wrote...

Oh, if I may add :

DPS for the acolyte (in burst) is 264.9
DPS for... Geth Plasma SMG is... 268.


Yeah, sure we have an OP pistol.

multiply that by five for any protection whatsoever. 

Also if I may add,

GPSMG doesn't stagger
GPSMG doesn't taze unshielded enemies
GPSMG doesn't do 100% of its damage to armor, the Acolyte does. 
GPSMG needs charge up, Acolyte doesn't.

People always forget utility. And when they do, it's usually because they barely played the game. 

[Operator m1]

DHKany wrote...

Charaxan wrote...

Oh, if I may add :

DPS for the acolyte (in burst) is 264.9
DPS for... Geth Plasma SMG is... 268.


Yeah, sure we have an OP pistol.

multiply that by five for any protection whatsoever. 

Also if I may add,

GPSMG doesn't stagger
GPSMG doesn't taze unshielded enemies
GPSMG doesn't do 100% of its damage to armor, the Acolyte does. 
GPSMG needs charge up, Acolyte doesn't.

People always forget utility. And when they do, it's usually because they barely played the game. 

... and then people realize there's more guns in the game than those 2, and are better at tearing apart unshielded targets.

Like I said before, the acolyte is not a do-everything weapon. It compliments kits, and doesn't replace a staggering amount of good guns.

Modifié par Operator m1, 13 novembre 2012 - 02:01 .

[noncasus]

In the past whenever there was an option to a skill of either shield/barrier or armor damage, the rule of thumb has always been go for armor. Why? Because shields and barrier have always been easy to dispose of.

The acolyte doesn't make a skill with vs-shield damage less useful, it makes it less optimal. Anything is useful against shield

[Eriseley]

I still don't like the "I'm shooting a happy fun ball" feel of the gun.

[DHKany]

Operator m1 wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Charaxan wrote...

Oh, if I may add :

DPS for the acolyte (in burst) is 264.9
DPS for... Geth Plasma SMG is... 268.


Yeah, sure we have an OP pistol.

multiply that by five for any protection whatsoever. 

Also if I may add,

GPSMG doesn't stagger
GPSMG doesn't taze unshielded enemies
GPSMG doesn't do 100% of its damage to armor, the Acolyte does. 
GPSMG needs charge up, Acolyte doesn't.

People always forget utility. And when they do, it's usually because they barely played the game. 

... and then people realize there's more guns in the game than those 2, and are better at tearing apart unshielded targets.

Like I said before, the acolyte is not a do-everything weapon. It compliments kits, and doesn't replace a staggering amount of good guns.

And then you realize the only gun better at tearing apart shields is the Reegar....... 

Acolyte may not replace a lot of PRIMARY guns. But it basically replaces every other secondary weapon in the gun in the game. 

[CmdrPwn]

Stardusk wrote...

xBUMMx wrote...

Cannot stand without it? I did just fine before the acolyte with complete power focus, so maybe you're doing it wrong?

You obviously did not read correctly. None of my builds requires the Acolyte. In fact, I never use the weapon.

You're such a hipster LOL..."Oh man the Acolyte is way too mainstream for me".  I made a new avatar for you.

Modifié par Cdr. Pwn, 13 novembre 2012 - 02:20 .

[Operator m1]

DHKany wrote...

Operator m1 wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Charaxan wrote...

Oh, if I may add :

DPS for the acolyte (in burst) is 264.9
DPS for... Geth Plasma SMG is... 268.


Yeah, sure we have an OP pistol.

multiply that by five for any protection whatsoever. 

Also if I may add,

GPSMG doesn't stagger
GPSMG doesn't taze unshielded enemies
GPSMG doesn't do 100% of its damage to armor, the Acolyte does. 
GPSMG needs charge up, Acolyte doesn't.

People always forget utility. And when they do, it's usually because they barely played the game. 

... and then people realize there's more guns in the game than those 2, and are better at tearing apart unshielded targets.

Like I said before, the acolyte is not a do-everything weapon. It compliments kits, and doesn't replace a staggering amount of good guns.

And then you realize the only gun better at tearing apart shields is the Reegar....... 

Acolyte may not replace a lot of PRIMARY guns. But it basically replaces every other secondary weapon in the gun in the game. 

Talon, scorpion, hurricane.

[Charaxan]

DHKany wrote...

Charaxan wrote...

Oh, if I may add :

DPS for the acolyte (in burst) is 264.9
DPS for... Geth Plasma SMG is... 268.


Yeah, sure we have an OP pistol.

multiply that by five for any protection whatsoever. 

Also if I may add,

GPSMG doesn't stagger
GPSMG doesn't taze unshielded enemies
GPSMG doesn't do 100% of its damage to armor, the Acolyte does. 
GPSMG needs charge up, Acolyte doesn't.

People always forget utility. And when they do, it's usually because they barely played the game. 

All right... Compare it to the predator X : DPS burst : 612.5.
Almost three times.


- No need to stagger when next shot will kill
- No need to taze unshielded ennemies when your headshot will kill it.
- DPS acolyte X vs armor (sustained) in Gold : 162
- DPS of predator X vs armor (sustained) in Gold : 141

Yeah, still SOOO op compared to the predator X you get at the verry begining of the game...

Talking about playing ; as I said, you will have trouble trying to kill ennemies with it only. You will not be efficient. That's my 360h playing an AA with Acolyte in gold/platinum talking.

And,

This gun is a gun made for those who THINK. You have to coordonate with your powers to be efficient, and to think what to do frist and to who to be verry efficient.

If course it is good ! It is made to be good ! It is a "two side of the coin" gun. Weak in some parts (dps) but verry good in other parts (shields and incapacitating) so of course, when players can play with it, is is GOOD.
But that's the purpose of gun based on utilities : if they are lame even when you optimise yourself to play with it, it is not usefull to creat a weapon like this !

Next, you will say what ? Shotguns are overpowered because the do a lot of damage at close range and snipers have a scope and should be nerfed because of this utility ?

Acolyte is the only gun I know you can't use if you can't play. If you spam acolyte rounds everywhere, you will hit sometimes but you will be dead in gold in no time. 

Don't blame a gun because people learn to use it.

Or, change the game radically and give us lots of guns with differents skins but sames stats and that's it.

Modifié par Charaxan, 13 novembre 2012 - 02:11 .

[krknight]

DHKany wrote...

And then you realize the only gun better at tearing apart shields is the Reegar....... 

Acolyte may not replace a lot of PRIMARY guns. But it basically replaces every other secondary weapon in the gun in the game. 

being a good secondary weapon doesn't mean anything.  there's a lot of primary weapons that are better that can be made as secondary weapons.  talon, paladin, and carnifex are all better pistols imo.  

[Charaxan]

krknight wrote...

being a good secondary weapon doesn't mean anything.  there's a lot of primary weapons that are better that can be made as secondary weapons.  talon, paladin, and carnifex are all better pistols imo.  

Stasis+carnifex is op

[krknight]

Charaxan wrote...


- No need to stagger when next shot will kill
- No need to taze unshielded ennemies when your headshot will kill it.
- DPS acolyte X vs armor (sustained) in Gold : 162
- DPS of predator X vs armor (sustained) in Gold : 141

Yeah, still SOOO op compared to the predator X you get at the verry begining of the game...

Talking about playing ; as I said, you will have trouble trying to kill ennemies with it only. You will not be efficient. That's my 360h playing an AA with Acolyte in gold/platinum talking.

And,

This gun is a gun made for those who THINK. You have to coordonate with your powers to be efficient, and to think what to do frist and to who to be verry efficient.

If course it is good ! It is made to be good ! It is a "two side of the coin" gun. Weak in some parts (dps) but verry good in other parts (shields and incapacitating) so of course, when players can play with it, is is GOOD.
But that's the purpose of gun based on utilities : if they are lame even when you optimise yourself to play with it, it is not usefull to creat a weapon like this !

Next, you will say what ? Shotguns are overpowered because the do a lot of damage at close range and snipers have a scope and should be nerfed because of this utility ?

Acolyte is the only gun I know you can't use if you can't play. If you spam acolyte rounds everywhere, you will hit sometimes but you will be dead in gold in no time. 

Don't blame a gun because people learn to use it.

Or, change the game radically and give us lots of guns with differents skins but sames stats and that's it.

also, you have to compensate for the drop off against mooks in cover at long distances.  otherwise, you wasted your shot.  

[fallen_acolyte]

So how long till its nerfed?