335 réponses à ce sujet

[RaptorSolutions]

Si7ent Sigh wrote...

Ares Caesar wrote...

Si7ent Sigh wrote...

I think its perfect as is. Let's be honest, nobody used it when the charge mechanic was in place.

The real question is, "Was it the charge up mechanic OR was it the cover breaking charge up mechanic that made people shy away from using it?"

For me personally it was the cover breaking aspect, I could have lived with the charging mechanic IF the stupid thing didnt make you constantly use soft cover and be screwed in certain maps/areas.

(unless I'm totally remembering wrong and the Acolyte DIDNT force you out of cover to charge the weapon).

No, you are correct. I would agree on your point. The charge up required you go be completly exposed.

This is false as you can just aim at the other side to charge up thus keeping you under cover, unless there is some cover mechanics I'm missing. Although I won't deny that the gun is significantly easier to use these days.

[Imp of the Perverse]

Stardusk wrote...

 By that I mean everyone seems to be using it and dozens of builds for many different classes depend heavily to entirely upon its use. For example, most people hate the shield/barrier evolution of Flamer, Their reason? they have an Acolyte and use it constantly. Biotics also use it to instantly strip shields and barriers. Of course it does have a limited AOE and you cannot strip the shields off 6 enemies at once but there are so many power based builds that would be much less effective without the Acolyte, meaning they cannot stand on their own without it. And mind you, this is just my observation. Bad or good, every Tom, Dick and Harry is using it now.

Not to mention stun things to keep them from killing you while you're waiting for your powers to cool down.

[MichaelFinnegan]

Stardusk wrote...

 By that I mean everyone seems to be using it and dozens of builds for many different classes depend heavily to entirely upon its use. For example, most people hate the shield/barrier evolution of Flamer, Their reason? they have an Acolyte and use it constantly. Biotics also use it to instantly strip shields and barriers. Of course it does have a limited AOE and you cannot strip the shields off 6 enemies at once but there are so many power based builds that would be much less effective without the Acolyte, meaning they cannot stand on their own without it. And mind you, this is just my observation. Bad or good, every Tom, Dick and Harry is using it now.

Not really sure about that. I PUG quite a bit and I don't come across either the Acolyte or the Reegar all that often. Perhaps you mean the builds posted here on BSN?

Personally I don't use the Acolyte all that much (I don't even remember off hand if I have it equipped on any of my characters). I sometimes use the Reegar on my Vorcha, but then again I rarely use the Vorcha.

The Acolyte has a strange mechanism that I never really quite understood. Anyway, what prompted BioWare to introduce it in the first place? Perhaps the obvious reason is as a mechanism to deal with shields, just as some weapons can deal better with armor. Perhaps your observation is that it is a little too good vs. shields?

[stysiaq]

Okay, so I tested Acolyte on Human Soldier.
Mind that I never used the CS before, maybe one or two games since march. I also built the HS kinda wrong way (I went for one bonus power in Adrenaline Rush, a bit useless in comparison to the shield restore), so I'm rookie at this build.

Still got a pretty okay score for a PUG, it's not astounding, but it was easy enough.

Acolyte the Phantom -> she vault jumps -> you cast CS immediately, it hits her mid air -> she lays on the ground helpless, next shot finishes her off.

Also, I used Incinedary III and I didn't get as many FEs as I thought I'd get. But maybe this would change with level IV consumable, I'll check it out later.

[megabeast37215]

Annomander wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...
Graal Spike Thrower

I think this weapon offers more than the Acolyte overall...  bleed...

You're funny you are. You can have a "nice try" sticker for effort, but you don't get a gold star for being wrong.

You're really gonna say that the Graal is not more versatile than an Acolyte? It does so much more IMO.... and it can actually hurt armor. In addition to the things I mentioned in the previous post, the Graal is a charge weapon so it can be viciously abused by Infiltrators. I put alot of value on the weapon being able to OSK w/ headshot on Phantoms without Tac Cloak... there are very few weapons able to make that claim. Being the PC headshot uber master you are (student of Jay)... I figured you of all people would appreciate that quality in a weapon.
 
What shielded mook retains his shields after being body shot with a charged Graal shot? Maybe a Possessed Captain... I'd have to actually see in game for myself.

Bosses... I'll give you that, Acolyte is better for stripping their shields, but Graal is better at actually killing them.

At 121% cooldown... the Graal offers far more to any class than the Acolyte does at 200%.

[xBUMMx]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Just needs to be heavier so caster classes pay a penalty for using it.

You just contradicted the entire point of the weapon. It was added to give biotic casters a way to handle shields while letting them use their powers with no penalty.

[Stardusk]

himegoto wrote...

And also Stardusk, you realize if by proposing a nerf on the weapon it will just revert the game back to its earlier state, whereas weapon classes like the GI will be the dominating classes and worst yet the go-to classes of the many.

Where did I propose a nerf?

[BLAHBLUE2001]

andrew688k wrote...

hope it doesn't get nerfed, its biotic's saving grace.

I agree. I loved the acolyte before the firing mechanics changed. It's been a huge boost to my favorite biotics. 

[holdenagincourt]

The only drawback of the Acolyte was the stupid handling it had until balance changes several weeks ago. Back then I could take it or leave it. Now there is literally no reason to not bring it as long as your heavy pistol slot is not otherwise occupied.

I disagree with the comparison to the Reegar; I think Acolyte is far more dominant and that, unlike the Reegar, it entails essentially no risk or downside. I never thought the Reegar was as cataclysmic as you claimed it was, and it seems the balance team didn't either. We'll see about the Acolyte.

[megabeast37215]

xBUMMx wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Just needs to be heavier so caster classes pay a penalty for using it.

You just contradicted the entire point of the weapon. It was added to give biotic casters a way to handle shields while letting them use their powers with no penalty.

If they made it weigh even as much as the Carnifex... the rage on this board would be off the chain.

Even though 190% pretty much equals 200%...

[BridgeBurner]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Annomander wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...
Graal Spike Thrower

I think this weapon offers more than the Acolyte overall...  bleed...

You're funny you are. You can have a "nice try" sticker for effort, but you don't get a gold star for being wrong.

You're really gonna say that the Graal is not more versatile than an Acolyte?.

See the poster above you. He, unlike you, knows what he's doing.

If you want to wax lyrical about how potent a weapon is, I can't take anyone seriously who doesn't even know about the mechanics of the weapon. Bleed DoT on the graal? Where'd ya learn that, "The Encyclopedia of Lies"?

[xBUMMx]

Deathshroud09 wrote...

They simply need to re-add the charge mechanic...the rocket glitch is still possible even without the acolyte, the people who do the glitch simply moved on to the next technique. If the acolyte is nerfed because of this it will be a very sad day...and it will make absolutely no sense.

I know. The glitchers will just move to a different charge weapon and they'll never get rid of the charge effect on the GpS or Graal, so why punish the acolyte for it?

[Cohen le Barbare]

I have no problem with this weapon, considering how cheap some enemies are like bombers, praetorians and their "bubble of imperviousness". If this can help gold PUGs be better and more successful, I have no problem with that either.

[UKStory135]

Do you perceive that as a problem? When I play UUG games, every kit I have has to answer two questions. 1. How do I deal with Phantoms? and 2. How do I deal with Guardians? Both the Acolyte and the Scorpion make phantoms trivial. To the addition of ULM has more to do with the prevalence of the Acolyte than anything else. And before the changes to the Acolyte, the same things could have been said about the Scorpion which was on just about every UUG build that I played with.

[MichaelFinnegan]

megabeast37215 wrote...

You're really gonna say that the Graal is not more versatile than an Acolyte? It does so much more IMO.... and it can actually hurt armor. In addition to the things I mentioned in the previous post, the Graal is a charge weapon so it can be viciously abused by Infiltrators. I put alot of value on the weapon being able to OSK w/ headshot on Phantoms without Tac Cloak... there are very few weapons able to make that claim. Being the PC headshot uber master you are (student of Jay)... I figured you of all people would appreciate that quality in a weapon.

If I may say so, the issue with the Graal isn't so much about how versatile it is, but is it practical to use it off host? Taking a Graal when I'm not hosting usually gets me either killed or makes my character very ineffective. This is not the case with the Acolyte - I haven't used it extensively, but that's what I felt. I can fire off an Acolyte shot and it bounces off and more often than not hits the target.

[Ronnie Blastoff]

I'll continue to kick anyone using only this weapon thinking they are doing anything worthwhile for the team. Its a shield stripping SECONDARY weapon, thats it. Anything else someone thinks they're doing with this weapon are either to tunnel sighted to notice anything else, or just clueless on how much power usage is really supporting the idea this weapon is doing anything relevant.

As someone posted in earlier, why is it you see no weapon based classes using this gun if its REALLY that great? A great gun becomes a better gun when in the hands of a soldier/infiltrator, why is it that this gun makes no sense at all on a weapon based class? Because its a piece of crap for anything besides stripping shields as a SECONDARY weapon.

[xBUMMx]

megabeast37215 wrote...

xBUMMx wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Just needs to be heavier so caster classes pay a penalty for using it.

You just contradicted the entire point of the weapon. It was added to give biotic casters a way to handle shields while letting them use their powers with no penalty.

If they made it weigh even as much as the Carnifex... the rage on this board would be off the chain.

Even though 190% pretty much equals 200%...

Statitically yeas, but not psychologically. To a caster, atleast me, not seeing an empty bar is like going into battle as a destroyer without a gun. It' s completely in my head, but it's cause for paranoia.

[UKStory135]

For most classes, I still think you are better off with the scorpion. If you have an on demand stagger power or are using another staggering weapon like the GPS, you don't need either.

[Ashen One]

holdenagincourt wrote...

The only drawback of the Acolyte was the stupid handling it had until balance changes several weeks ago. Back then I could take it or leave it. Now there is literally no reason to not bring it as long as your heavy pistol slot is not otherwise occupied.

So pathetically low damage against Armor along with an annoying refire/reload delay doesn't qualify as a downside?

And I can think of at least two reasons why I wouldn't bring an Acolyte in the pistol slot...

• Scorpion
• Talon

[Stardusk]

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

I'll continue to kick anyone using only this weapon thinking they are doing anything worthwhile for the team. Its a shield stripping SECONDARY weapon, thats it. Anything else someone thinks they're doing with this weapon are either to tunnel sighted to notice anything else, or just clueless on how much power usage is really supporting the idea this weapon is doing anything relevant.

As someone posted in earlier, why is it you see no weapon based classes using this gun if its REALLY that great? A great gun becomes a better gun when in the hands of a soldier/infiltrator, why is it that this gun makes no sense at all on a weapon based class? Because its a piece of crap for anything besides stripping shields as a SECONDARY weapon.

Try it on the T.Soldier, it tears stuff up.

[xBUMMx]

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

I'll continue to kick anyone using only this weapon thinking they are doing anything worthwhile for the team. Its a shield stripping SECONDARY weapon, thats it. Anything else someone thinks they're doing with this weapon are either to tunnel sighted to notice anything else, or just clueless on how much power usage is really supporting the idea this weapon is doing anything relevant.

As someone posted in earlier, why is it you see no weapon based classes using this gun if its REALLY that great? A great gun becomes a better gun when in the hands of a soldier/infiltrator, why is it that this gun makes no sense at all on a weapon based class? Because its a piece of crap for anything besides stripping shields as a SECONDARY weapon.

It is a secondary weapon, but if it's the only one I bring, by biotics ARE my primary.

[HolyAvenger]

xBUMMx wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Just needs to be heavier so caster classes pay a penalty for using it.

You just contradicted the entire point of the weapon. It was added to give biotic casters a way to handle shields while letting them use their powers with no penalty.

True, but the problem is that there's basically no penalty for doing so. Hence, make the caster pay for having such easy shield stripping. 

[robarcool]

Air Quotes wrote...

Acolyte has no drawback now. At least previously you had to charge it and that could be tedious and screw you up. Now it's an ultimate sidearm for all classes or even a primary for some.

Personally, I liked it better before the charge removal.

[Ashen One]

xBUMMx wrote...

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

I'll continue to kick anyone using only this weapon thinking they are doing anything worthwhile for the team. Its a shield stripping SECONDARY weapon, thats it. Anything else someone thinks they're doing with this weapon are either to tunnel sighted to notice anything else, or just clueless on how much power usage is really supporting the idea this weapon is doing anything relevant.

As someone posted in earlier, why is it you see no weapon based classes using this gun if its REALLY that great? A great gun becomes a better gun when in the hands of a soldier/infiltrator, why is it that this gun makes no sense at all on a weapon based class? Because its a piece of crap for anything besides stripping shields as a SECONDARY weapon.

It is a secondary weapon, but if it's the only one I bring, by biotics ARE my primary.

Indra + ULM Acolyte with an AJA gives a 191% CD bonus.

There really is no excuse to use only an Acolyte when there are so many lightweight weapons that actually deal real damage.

[ryoldschool]

HolyAvenger wrote...

xBUMMx wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Just needs to be heavier so caster classes pay a penalty for using it.

You just contradicted the entire point of the weapon. It was added to give biotic casters a way to handle shields while letting them use their powers with no penalty.

True, but the problem is that there's basically no penalty for doing so. Hence, make the caster pay for having such easy shield stripping. 

I think xBUMMx missed your point entirely.  You both used the words "no penalty".  You are saying that there should be a penalty.