335 réponses à ce sujet

[RoundedPlanet88]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Annomander wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...
Graal Spike Thrower

I think this weapon offers more than the Acolyte overall...  bleed...

You're funny you are. You can have a "nice try" sticker for effort, but you don't get a gold star for being wrong.

You're really gonna say that the Graal is not more versatile than an Acolyte?

im a fan of the Graal myself, but your trying to compare a weapon that is built for weapons class builds with a caster weapon. barring the fact that thats like comparing apples to aranges, there`s two words for you CORNER SHOT. Theres what? Two weapons that can shoot around corners? (alcolyte and falcon)? Can the Grall do that? No. Can the grall leave you with high cooldown rate? No. Can the Grall stagger/stun pretty much anything? No.  Is the graal dependent on lag/latency? Yes. The only way in which the Grall is easily suprieor to the acyolyte is in armor damage. And yeah, like said, I`m actually a fan of the Graal myself, BUT I admit that the alcolyte is vastly superior for caster builds, and for anyone who has a saber/harrier/piranhha/armor damaging weapon as well. Long story short, NO.

Modifié par RoundedPlanet88, 12 novembre 2012 - 09:04 .

[Eelectrica]

Acolyte is fine the way it is. Strips shields/barriers which on bosses regen quickly if you don't capitilse on it quickly.
So it can kill phantoms easily? So can striker, falcon, gps etc.

[paranoio]

why not use both the acolyte AND the reegar O.o?

[HolyAvenger]

ryoldschool wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

xBUMMx wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Just needs to be heavier so caster classes pay a penalty for using it.

You just contradicted the entire point of the weapon. It was added to give biotic casters a way to handle shields while letting them use their powers with no penalty.

True, but the problem is that there's basically no penalty for doing so. Hence, make the caster pay for having such easy shield stripping. 

I think xBUMMx missed your point entirely.  You both used the words "no penalty".  You are saying that there should be a penalty.

yes, I'm trying to argue that the weapon is improperly balanced at the moment thanks to the fact it is so light and perfect for casters.

Doesn't matter anyway. BioWare will see this come out in their metadata and nerf it accordingly no matter what anyone says on BSN. 

[J4mes]

My Hurricane 6 with Piercing/Stability Mod + Acolyte with Extended Mag/Damage Barrel + Geth Pyro Soldier = Can kill anything.

Geth are the hardest due to Stagger. All it takes is one Hunter to **** you over.

*****

If they were to nerf it, I propose they increase the weight to the level of the Scorpian or Arc Pistol.  Then you would have to make of the choice of ULM/Barrel or Ext.Mag/Barrel.

Modifié par J4mes, 12 novembre 2012 - 09:09 .

[megabeast37215]

Annomander wrote...
If you want to wax lyrical about how potent a weapon is, I can't take anyone seriously who doesn't even know about the mechanics of the weapon. Bleed DoT on the graal? Where'd ya learn that, "The Encyclopedia of Lies"?

I just checked the spreadsheet... in the DOT Duration (is it worth keeping) catagory... it has a value of 1... whatever that means.

https://docs.google....tput=html&gid=8

[holdenagincourt]

Ashen Earth wrote...

holdenagincourt wrote...

The only drawback of the Acolyte was the stupid handling it had until balance changes several weeks ago. Back then I could take it or leave it. Now there is literally no reason to not bring it as long as your heavy pistol slot is not otherwise occupied.

So pathetically low damage against Armor along with an annoying refire/reload delay doesn't qualify as a downside?

And I can think of at least two reasons why I wouldn't bring an Acolyte in the pistol slot...
[list][*]Scorpion[*]Talon

Which is why I said "as long as your heavy pistol slot is not otherwise occupied." Obviously I understand that people might want to sometimes use other pistols, which is why I pointedly added that qualification.

When I refer to downside, I'm speaking holistically. It's a given that the Acolyte is not ideal against every defense, every enemy, in every circumstance and at every point in linear time, but its weaknesses can be compensated for by another weapon and character kits more easily than if one were to slap a Reegar on a random character and then think about what other weapon he should bring and how to build the character's powers.

[BridgeBurner]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Annomander wrote...
If you want to wax lyrical about how potent a weapon is, I can't take anyone seriously who doesn't even know about the mechanics of the weapon. Bleed DoT on the graal? Where'd ya learn that, "The Encyclopedia of Lies"?

I just checked the spreadsheet... in the DOT Duration (is it worth keeping) catagory... it has a value of 1... whatever that means.

https://docs.google....tput=html&gid=8

You'll also notice on the left that it has a "(Is this worth keeping?") next to the row header for DoT damage.. My answer would be no, its not worth keeping.

[dumdum2]

I recently started using in on characters like the Vorcha (Flamer and cryo rounds), Geth Trooper (with the Flamer build only and cryo rounds) and Human Sentinel. Other characters I use other weapons on because I really only like the Acolyte on those characters that I just mentioned.

The charge made it balanced, now it is a bit to OP I would say. Rate of fire nerf would solve that issue, but I'm not really a fan of either nerfs or buffs.

[Ronnie Blastoff]

Stardusk wrote...

Try it on the T.Soldier, it tears stuff up.

Actually whats going on is your completely missing the fact that, T.Soldier is tearing stuff up and not this weapon. If you took this gun on a T.Soldier and used prox mine, marksman, or concussion shot, your not utilizing the weapon as much as your using T.Soldiers abilities to kill. You think your doing something awesome because

1. Prox mine is debuffing enemies for your TEAM. Your acolyte isn't doing anything special with 20% more punch.
2. Concussion shot is knocking down, setting off burst/explosions, doing damage to enemies.
3. Marksman (being the best RoF buff in the game btw) is making you "think" this weapons doing something besides shooting faster.

To truly test out a weapon (and not a BUILD as your describing), you don't back it up with abilities.

Ashen Earth wrote...

xBUMMx wrote...

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

I'll
continue to kick anyone using only this weapon thinking they are doing
anything worthwhile for the team. Its a shield stripping SECONDARY
weapon, thats it. Anything else someone thinks they're doing with this
weapon are either to tunnel sighted to notice anything else, or just
clueless on how much power usage is really supporting the idea this
weapon is doing anything relevant.

As someone posted in earlier,
why is it you see no weapon based classes using this gun if its REALLY
that great? A great gun becomes a better gun when in the hands of a
soldier/infiltrator, why is it that this gun makes no sense at all on a
weapon based class? Because its a piece of crap for anything besides
stripping shields as a SECONDARY weapon.

It is a secondary
weapon, but if it's the only one I bring, by biotics ARE my primary.

Indra + ULM Acolyte with an AJA gives a 191% CD bonus.

There really is no excuse to use only an Acolyte when there are so many lightweight weapons that actually deal real damage.

Just to make sure he and anyone else who says something so rediculous
can see it more clearly. If your biotics are your primary, what your
saying is your powers are your main source of damage. Hmm, in a game
that utilizes both weapons and abilities, with weapons being the main
source, your basically telling me you "think" your going to tag along as
half a player.

To me, thats no better than leeching, which is also why, I kick people thinking this weapon is doing anything besides stripping shields, as a SECONDARY weapon.

Modifié par Ronnie Blastoff, 12 novembre 2012 - 09:16 .

[Grammaton Dryad]

Stardusk wrote...

 By that I mean everyone seems to be using it and dozens of builds for many different classes depend heavily to entirely upon its use. For example, most people hate the shield/barrier evolution of Flamer, Their reason? they have an Acolyte and use it constantly. Biotics also use it to instantly strip shields and barriers. Of course it does have a limited AOE and you cannot strip the shields off 6 enemies at once but there are so many power based builds that would be much less effective without the Acolyte, meaning they cannot stand on their own without it. And mind you, this is just my observation. Bad or good, every Tom, Dick and Harry is using it now.

I just find it amusing that I LOVED this gun upon release, and that apparently, the ONLY thing holding it back was the charging factor. LOL it shoots slower now, which is too bad, but it's easier to use I suppose. People's inability to adapt to minor gameplay aspects amuses me.

I say bring the charge back for a couple weeks and see how people react.

[capn233]

megabeast37215 wrote...

I just checked the spreadsheet... in the DOT Duration (is it worth keeping) catagory... it has a value of 1... whatever that means.

That's coming from the coalesced, but from in game testing there is no DOT whatsoever.  It may be that what those values actually do are related to individial spikes versus shield gate though.

[Miniditka77]

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

im a fan of the Graal myself, but your trying to compare a weapon that is built for weapons class builds with a caster weapon. barring the fact that thats like comparing apples to aranges, there`s two words for you CORNER SHOT. Theres what? Two weapons that can shoot around corners? (alcolyte and falcon)? Can the Grall do that? No. Can the grall leave you with high cooldown rate? No. Can the Grall stagger/stun pretty much anything? No.  Is the graal dependent on lag/latency? Yes. The only way in which the Grall is easily suprieor to the acyolyte is in armor damage. And yeah, like said, I`m actually a fan of the Graal myself, BUT I admit that the alcolyte is vastly superior for caster builds, and for anyone who has a saber/harrier/piranhha/armor damaging weapon as well. Long story short, NO.

Yeah, seriously.  Let's compare the Piranha with the Indra next.  These are two different weapons with two different uses.  They can't be compared.

[stysiaq]

Ashen Earth wrote...

xBUMMx wrote...

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

I'll continue to kick anyone using only this weapon thinking they are doing anything worthwhile for the team. Its a shield stripping SECONDARY weapon, thats it. Anything else someone thinks they're doing with this weapon are either to tunnel sighted to notice anything else, or just clueless on how much power usage is really supporting the idea this weapon is doing anything relevant.

As someone posted in earlier, why is it you see no weapon based classes using this gun if its REALLY that great? A great gun becomes a better gun when in the hands of a soldier/infiltrator, why is it that this gun makes no sense at all on a weapon based class? Because its a piece of crap for anything besides stripping shields as a SECONDARY weapon.

It is a secondary weapon, but if it's the only one I bring, by biotics ARE my primary.

Indra + ULM Acolyte with an AJA gives a 191% CD bonus.

There really is no excuse to use only an Acolyte when there are so many lightweight weapons that actually deal real damage.

You keep forgetting about the rarity of the guns you take.

Acolyte X is more likely than Scorpion/Talon.

anyway, I finished my second HS with Acolyte as the only gun and with CS spam.

With Incinedary IV there are lots of fire explosions. Unfortunately I must say it isn't that great vs the Collectors which were the unknown enemy this time.

I'd say that with Incinedary IV and constant FEs, the damage vs armor is quite decent to say the least. Far from pathetic. Of course it doesn't apply for the Praetorians and their cheat bubble. But single Scions went down pretty nicely, even if Acolyte is no Reave + Cluster nor it can rip their hunches wide open.

I must try the build vs the Geth, they're most likely to be wrecked by this combo.

[Miniditka77]

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

Just to make sure he and anyone else who says something so rediculous
can see it more clearly. If your biotics are your primary, what your
saying is your powers are your main source of damage. Hmm, in a game
that utilizes both weapons and abilities, with weapons being the main
source, your basically telling me you "think" your going to tag along as
half a player.

To me, thats no better than leeching, which is also why, I kick people thinking this weapon is doing anything besides stripping shields, as a SECONDARY weapon.

Biotic powers can be devastating without pesky shields to get in the way.

Also, have you tried the Acolyte as a primary weapon with Incendiary or Cryo ammo, along with a quick detonator power like Throw or Concussive Shot?  You can literally set off a fire or cryo explosion every 2 seconds.  It works pretty well.

EDIT:  Although to be fair, I have never taken the Acolyte as my only weapon.  Now that SMG-ULM works, there is no excuse for not having a Hurricane on you at all times.

Modifié par Miniditka77, 12 novembre 2012 - 09:24 .

[RoundedPlanet88]

Miniditka77 wrote...

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

im a fan of the Graal myself, but your trying to compare a weapon that is built for weapons class builds with a caster weapon. barring the fact that thats like comparing apples to aranges, there`s two words for you CORNER SHOT. Theres what? Two weapons that can shoot around corners? (alcolyte and falcon)? Can the Grall do that? No. Can the grall leave you with high cooldown rate? No. Can the Grall stagger/stun pretty much anything? No.  Is the graal dependent on lag/latency? Yes. The only way in which the Grall is easily suprieor to the acyolyte is in armor damage. And yeah, like said, I`m actually a fan of the Graal myself, BUT I admit that the alcolyte is vastly superior for caster builds, and for anyone who has a saber/harrier/piranhha/armor damaging weapon as well. Long story short, NO.

Yeah, seriously.  Let's compare the Piranha with the Indra next.  These are two different weapons with two different uses.  They can't be compared.

THIS is what I was trying to say THANK YOU 

[Homey C-Dawg]

I wish the reegar and acolyte were not quite as effective against shields as they are now, but we had more guns that also had limited shield stripping bonuses. The removal of the charge mechanic on the acolyte made it a skill-less gun to use.

[xBUMMx]

[quote]ryoldschool wrote...

[quote]HolyAvenger wrote...

[quote]xBUMMx wrote...

True, but the problem is that there's basically no penalty for doing so. Hence, make the caster pay for having such easy shield stripping. 
[/quote]

I think xBUMMx missed your point entirely.  You both used the words "no penalty".  You are saying that there should be a penalty.

[/quote]No, I see the point( and at the moment it is completely valid) but the original point of the gun itself was to help biotics with shields at no penalty for there powers, just fire rate, timing and overall difficulty to fire. They overpowered the gun when they took charge off. It didn't stop the glitches at all (they just changed guns) and now people are complaining about it. It needs it's charge back, to balance the gun again.

This is an actual post, the iPad makes this extremely difficult with quote pyramids
I kind of hate how those god damned missile glitchers are ruining this game because they're too ****ing lazy/bad play the right way. I wish I saw more, just so I could report them, the selfish bastards.

Modifié par xBUMMx, 12 novembre 2012 - 09:32 .

[Ashen One]

stysiaq wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

xBUMMx wrote...

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

I'll continue to kick anyone using only this weapon thinking they are doing anything worthwhile for the team. Its a shield stripping SECONDARY weapon, thats it. Anything else someone thinks they're doing with this weapon are either to tunnel sighted to notice anything else, or just clueless on how much power usage is really supporting the idea this weapon is doing anything relevant.

As someone posted in earlier, why is it you see no weapon based classes using this gun if its REALLY that great? A great gun becomes a better gun when in the hands of a soldier/infiltrator, why is it that this gun makes no sense at all on a weapon based class? Because its a piece of crap for anything besides stripping shields as a SECONDARY weapon.

It is a secondary weapon, but if it's the only one I bring, by biotics ARE my primary.

Indra + ULM Acolyte with an AJA gives a 191% CD bonus.

There really is no excuse to use only an Acolyte when there are so many lightweight weapons that actually deal real damage.

You keep forgetting about the rarity of the guns you take.

Acolyte X is more likely than Scorpion/Talon.

An Indra I and ULM Acolyte X combined are slightly heavier than a level X Mantis.

A ULM Hurricane I is still an "I win" button in CQC with virtually no weight penalty. Why would anyone not use one on every class in the game assuming that player had only intended to use one weapon? You lose nothing from equipping it, and it makes your character that much more versatile.

I'll say it again, there is no excuse to not use 2 weapons on every class in the game when there are so many lightweight weapons that do real damage. "My powers are my main source of damage" is not a good excuse when you could use a powerful weapon and your powers with no sacrifice on your part.

[Ronnie Blastoff]

stysiaq wrote...

You keep forgetting about the rarity of the guns you take.

Acolyte X is more likely than Scorpion/Talon.

anyway, I finished my second HS with Acolyte as the only gun and with (((((*CS spam*.)))))

With Incinedary IV there are lots of fire explosions. Unfortunately I must say it isn't that great vs the Collectors which were the unknown enemy this time.

I'd say that with Incinedary IV and constant FEs, the damage vs armor is quite decent to say the least. Far from pathetic. Of course it doesn't apply for the Praetorians and their cheat bubble. But single Scions went down pretty nicely, even if Acolyte is no Reave + Cluster nor it can rip their hunches wide open.

I must try the build vs the Geth, they're most likely to be wrecked by this combo.

Abilities don't = gun is awesome. I posted this same case above. Just needed to point things out again to the readers in the abyss over how much crap this gun is. Rarity is only important to people who don't have success in this game, and I can understand if someone was to think this P.O.S. is worth equiping over a Scorpion 1.

[SilentStep79]

Relix28 wrote...

ITS AN ABOMINATION!

you're an abomination.

[longgamma]

The removal of the charge mechanic has made the learning curve for this gun a lot lot easier. Now you just have to take the travel time of the projectile into account. I really liked the older version of the acolyte. It made so many classes - vanilla human adept, drell adepts, phoenix adept much more competitive to the heavy hitting classes.

[silencekills]

 Yeah, I had already guessed it'd be nerfed eventually.

If I remember correctly, the Piranha was used by a good majority of the players (and for good reason) and caught the attention of THEM. I vaguely remember that being the reason for the recent Carnifex nerf, but I could very well be wrong about that.

[xBUMMx]

All this talk about how weapons are the "main source of damage" is kind of confusing. Then how can I top the list with a fury that all I do is literally run at mooks and biotic explosion face punch them with AF throw and DC throw detonate bosses. I barely use guns.

[Learn To Love Yourself]

Air Quotes wrote...

Acolyte has no drawback now. At least previously you had to charge it and that could be tedious and screw you up. Now it's an ultimate sidearm for all classes or even a primary for some.

The sad part is that it was better, arguably, before removing the charge up, yet was less popular because of it.