199 réponses à ce sujet

[Black Phantom]

Air Quotes wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...


Well it's fine if you're playing a gun class. Bubble? - I don't care I just keep shooting. But if you're playing a biotic - you're screwed. More than half of your DPS againt bosses is gone. 

Wraith, Talon, Hurricane or Indra with Warp Ammo IV are still pretty damn effective.

All UR's or Promotional. Very helpful 

Surely that's not a problem for a 1337 player such as yourself.

[Conduit0]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Praetorians will only activate their barrier while they're flying, Banshees will only use their power/DoT immunity against projectile powers in their second attack pattern, (the one where they are unable to melee/sync kill) and the Phantom's barrier can be exploited by any projectile power and a half decent weapon.

You could fight waves upon waves of Banshees Praetorians and Phantoms without triggering their anti-power abilities once if you actually pay attention to what it is exactly that triggers them.

 

Careful now Ashen... Air Quotes is an extremely good player, he obviously knows this.

But I would've thought someone who PUGs a lot would understand the frustration when someone throws a power at a Praetorian BEFORE knocking it out of the sky.  

I don't blame the enemies, I blame my teammates for being ignorant.

Learn how to not trigger the bubbles, ok sure thats a great idea, except that it completely ignores the fact that the mere existance of the bubbles puts casters at a significant disadvantage. It shoehorns them into specific weapons and prevents them from maxamizing their potential by severly limiting what powers they can use and when.
What makes the immunity bubbles all that more obnoxious is the fact that weaponcentric classes surpassed power classes in damage pontential long ago.

[Black Phantom]

His Guardness wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

All bubbles stop the DOT effects completely. So the only good way in to abuse the Incendiary ammo glitch. Warp a boss, then just shoot it with Incendiary ammo and don't try to BE it. Fun right? Biotic class with no BE's

That dosen't fit my observations. At least regarding Reave and Phantoms & Banshees. Reave does damage to Phantoms regardles of their bubble, you can even add Reave stacks when that bubble is up.
Banshees on the other hand..their bubble does not cancel Reave stacks but I'm quite certain that you cannot add additional stacks if that bubble is up.

Reave and Dark Channel are among the few powers that aren't cancelled. I could stack 10,000 damage worth of Incendiary DoT on a Banshee with a Particle Rifle, and all it takes is for one jackass to throw a grenade at her to lengthen the Banshee's lifespan where it would have actually been dead without interference from the other guy.

[mybudgee]

Pass the popcorn, please

[Apl_Juice]

The Bubble is why you bring a real weapon with you.

Honestly, +200% cooldown is overrated. If you're fighting anything but Geth, you need something to damage these types of enemies

[Black Phantom]

Conduit0 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Praetorians will only activate their barrier while they're flying, Banshees will only use their power/DoT immunity against projectile powers in their second attack pattern, (the one where they are unable to melee/sync kill) and the Phantom's barrier can be exploited by any projectile power and a half decent weapon.

You could fight waves upon waves of Banshees Praetorians and Phantoms without triggering their anti-power abilities once if you actually pay attention to what it is exactly that triggers them.

 

Careful now Ashen... Air Quotes is an extremely good player, he obviously knows this.

But I would've thought someone who PUGs a lot would understand the frustration when someone throws a power at a Praetorian BEFORE knocking it out of the sky.  

I don't blame the enemies, I blame my teammates for being ignorant.

Learn how to not trigger the bubbles, ok sure thats a great idea, except that it completely ignores the fact that the mere existance of the bubbles puts casters at a significant disadvantage. It shoehorns them into specific weapons and prevents them from maxamizing their potential by severly limiting what powers they can use and when.
What makes the immunity bubbles all that more obnoxious is the fact that weaponcentric classes surpassed power classes in damage pontential long ago.

The disadvantage is there, but it's not as significant as the hyperbole on this board would suggest.

If anything, it's a testament to the fact that 200% CD bonus and a crappy weapon is not the be all end all standard that power classes should be striving for. The "powers vs weapons" mentality is half the problem, and anyone with a half decent manifest can use both with every class in the game .

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 12 novembre 2012 - 10:01 .

[Apl_Juice]

Air Quotes wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

The Bubble is why you bring a real weapon with you.

Honestly, +200% cooldown is overrated. If you're fighting anything but Geth, you need something to damage these types of enemies

And that's why we have Furies with freaking Javelins. 

Well that's a blanket statement if I ever heard one.

The game has been this way since the DEMO. Learn to balance weapon effectiveness and cooldown.

[Conduit0]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...

Learn how to not trigger the bubbles, ok sure thats a great idea, except that it completely ignores the fact that the mere existance of the bubbles puts casters at a significant disadvantage. It shoehorns them into specific weapons and prevents them from maxamizing their potential by severly limiting what powers they can use and when.
What makes the immunity bubbles all that more obnoxious is the fact that weaponcentric classes surpassed power classes in damage pontential long ago.

The disadvantage is there, but it's not as significant as the hyperbole on this board would suggest.

If anything, it's a testament to the fact that 200% CD bonus and a crappy weapon is not the be all end all standard that power classes should be striving for. The "powers vs weapons" mentality is half the problem, and anyone with a half decent manifest can use both with every class in the game .

The point is the disadvantage shouldn't be there at all.

[His Guardness]

Apl_J wrote...

The Bubble is why you bring a real weapon with you.

Honestly, +200% cooldown is overrated. If you're fighting anything but Geth, you need something to damage these types of enemies

But if I play a caster I want to play AS a caster. Not as a badly suited weapons platform with the occasional  power usage.
Because even little cut backs (let's say 20-50%) from those precious 200% can affect your power timing (timing, not cooldown) pretty bad and thus the damage you can dish out..

[Black Phantom]

Air Quotes wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...


Well it's fine if you're playing a gun class. Bubble? - I don't care I just keep shooting. But if you're playing a biotic - you're screwed. More than half of your DPS againt bosses is gone. 

Wraith, Talon, Hurricane or Indra with Warp Ammo IV are still pretty damn effective.

All UR's or Promotional. Very helpful 

Surely that's not a problem for a 1337 player such as yourself.

I have most of them at X. But that doesn't matter. I shoudn't be forced to carry specific (Ultra-rare) weapons on a Biotic class.

But why wouldn't you, when you sacrifice nothing to do so?

By refusing to use your best weapons when you literally lose nothing from doing so, you are imposing a handicap on yourself. Every time you're forced to kite a Praetorian around the map for 2 minutes while trying to strip it's barrier with powers alone, it is your own fault due only to your own refusal to use all of the tools given to you and putting all of your eggs in one basket.... so to speak. Versatility should be rewarded, and lame 1 trick pony playstyles should be punished. If you don't like having to be forced to rely on teammates to cover the weaknesses you willingly imposed on yourself, then do something about it.

If you didn't have any of those weapons unlocked, you might actually have a respectable argument.

[xHNS]

Some biotic explosions and tech burst actually ignore the bubles completly, for example singularity + smash. Tried it on the Ex-Cerberus adept yesterday. Also there are a lot of powers that ignore it, like reave, dark channel, singularity, the dot on warp... And almost every single power with an additional DoT effect on it (burn from incinerate, electrical effect from arc grenade) ignore bubles (the additional DoT that is). Last but certainly not least, you can't make a character relying only on powers, you need a decent weapon at your side, ALWAYS!

[Apl_Juice]

His Guardness wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

The Bubble is why you bring a real weapon with you.

Honestly, +200% cooldown is overrated. If you're fighting anything but Geth, you need something to damage these types of enemies

But if I play a caster I want to play AS a caster. Not as a badly suited weapons platform with the occasional  power usage.
Because even little cut backs (let's say 20-50%) from those precious 200% can affect your power timing (timing, not cooldown) pretty bad and thus the damage you can dish out..

What? One enemy on 3 of 4 factions can block powers sometimes, so that makes you a weapons platform with occasional power usage? All it takes is something light, like a Pirahna. Part of the game is proper preperation. 200% IS Overrated; I'll say it again, learn to find the sweetspot between weapon/power use.

[Apl_Juice]

Air Quotes wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

The Bubble is why you bring a real weapon with you.

Honestly, +200% cooldown is overrated. If you're fighting anything but Geth, you need something to damage these types of enemies

And that's why we have Furies with freaking Javelins. 

Well that's a blanket statement if I ever heard one.

The game has been this way since the DEMO. Learn to balance weapon effectiveness and cooldown.

Okay. Take away UR's and Hurricane. What is there to use? NOTHING. Acolyte. But for barriers only. New players are screwed. You have to put in 500 hours to have decent weapons. F that. 

HAHA, that's more a detrement to WEAPONS classes than power classes. If anything, new players SHOULD be using Casters, as they wont have URs. Try again.

[Black Phantom]

Conduit0 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...

Learn how to not trigger the bubbles, ok sure thats a great idea, except that it completely ignores the fact that the mere existance of the bubbles puts casters at a significant disadvantage. It shoehorns them into specific weapons and prevents them from maxamizing their potential by severly limiting what powers they can use and when.
What makes the immunity bubbles all that more obnoxious is the fact that weaponcentric classes surpassed power classes in damage pontential long ago.

The disadvantage is there, but it's not as significant as the hyperbole on this board would suggest.

If anything, it's a testament to the fact that 200% CD bonus and a crappy weapon is not the be all end all standard that power classes should be striving for. The "powers vs weapons" mentality is half the problem, and anyone with a half decent manifest can use both with every class in the game .

The point is the disadvantage shouldn't be there at all.

Why not? Enemies that nullify certain player abilities put an emphasis on teamwork, or otherwise force the individual players to be versatile.

[Fawx9]

Apl_J wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

The Bubble is why you bring a real weapon with you.

Honestly, +200% cooldown is overrated. If you're fighting anything but Geth, you need something to damage these types of enemies

And that's why we have Furies with freaking Javelins. 

Well that's a blanket statement if I ever heard one.

The game has been this way since the DEMO. Learn to balance weapon effectiveness and cooldown.

Okay. Take away UR's and Hurricane. What is there to use? NOTHING. Acolyte. But for barriers only. New players are screwed. You have to put in 500 hours to have decent weapons. F that. 

HAHA, that's more a detrement to WEAPONS classes than power classes. If anything, new players SHOULD be using Casters, as they wont have URs. Try again.

I think you have that backwards.

If a weapon class maximizes their dps with just weapons, then they will always be higher than a class that does it through weapon + powers when facing an enemy that blocks powers.

[His Guardness]

Ashen Earth wrote...


By refusing to use your best weapons when you literally lose nothing from doing so, you are imposing a handicap on yourself. Every time you're forced to kite a Praetorian around the map for 2 minutes while trying to strip it's barrier with powers alone, it is your own fault due only to your own refusal to use all of the tools given to you and putting all of your eggs in one basket.... so to speak. Versatility should be rewarded, and lame 1 trick pony playstyles should be punished. If you don't like having to be forced to rely on teammates to cover the weaknesses you willingly imposed on yourself, then do something about it.

If you didn't have any of those weapons unlocked, you might actually have a respectable argument.

Now let's turn around that argument...

Versatility like : the Destroyer (or any soldier for that matter) or the Demolisher or the Kroguard or the Novaguard ?

These all are classes that by their very nature push you into a certain playstyle. In some cases even don't allow any deviation from it.  Or as you put it  " 1trick pony playstyles ".
Now I ask you..where is the punishment there ?

[Cyonan]

Air Quotes wrote...
Okay. Take away UR's and Hurricane. What is there to use? NOTHING. Acolyte. But for barriers only. New players are screwed. You have to put in 500 hours to have decent weapons. F that. 

If only the two highest damage output weapons in the game were a 0.9 weight shotgun and a 1.25 weight shotgun.

Or if only Assault Rifles had an amazing long range weapon that was only an uncommon, which was almost as good as the UR version of it(even if it can make your trigger finger sore).

[Matthias King]

Air Quotes wrote...

 only the Phantom has a drawback of inability to move or attack you when she put her barrier hand on. 

I agree that they are able to use their bubbles too often, but where in the world did you get the idea that the Phantom can't move or attack with her bubble up?

I constanly see Phantoms moving and shooting their palm cannon while keeping their invincibility bubble up. 

[Apl_Juice]

Fawx9 wrote...

I think you have that backwards.

If a weapon class maximizes their dps with just weapons, then they will always be higher than a class that does it through weapon + powers when facing an enemy that blocks powers.

Uh, what? Did you play this game at launch? Soldiers were horrible because no one had high level URs. Asari Adept and Infiltrator were considered the best classes in the game, and Infils were only good because TC was broken.