73 réponses à ce sujet

[ReubenLiew]

Sialater wrote...

Mages are the most oppressed people in Ferelden.
.

Hahahaha hehehehe hahaha... *wheeze wheeze* Don't be silly, mages don't count as people!

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Sialater wrote...



Well, there's only so many young, nubile apprentices they can watch in the baths, you know.  I didn't free the mages on my mage playthrough, though.  Mostly because I was utterly unimpressed with Irving and couldn't convince Wynne to stick around for the job.  And Connor scared my mage.

Mages are the most oppressed people in Ferelden.
.

Strangely enough, my mage felt the same. For starters, if you pick up codexes around the tower, you find that irving and other senior mages were actually making knowledge of blood magic "accessable" to basically lure out and snag those that were supposedly susceptable to it. The senior mages were playing games with the minds of their own. Cullen was right in ways he didn't even realize: all the mages were corrupt, in one form or another. . But we see the seeds for disaster being sown long before the upheval.

With that kind of knowledge and the games being played in the tower, as well as other codexes showing mages being restricted from many very mundane activities, my mage really didn't feel that she could trust the circle to come and help free Connor anyway. But my mage ended up leaving the descision to Gregior, who actually decided to restore the tower, which surprisaed the hell out of her. I wished there were a few more dialogue options, at the least, to confront Irving with your discoveries.

[Sialater]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Sialater wrote...



Well, there's only so many young, nubile apprentices they can watch in the baths, you know.  I didn't free the mages on my mage playthrough, though.  Mostly because I was utterly unimpressed with Irving and couldn't convince Wynne to stick around for the job.  And Connor scared my mage.

Mages are the most oppressed people in Ferelden.
.

Strangely enough, my mage felt the same. For starters, if you pick up codexes around the tower, you find that irving and other senior mages were actually making knowledge of blood magic "accessable" to basically lure out and snag those that were supposedly susceptable to it. The senior mages were playing games with the minds of their own. Cullen was right in ways he didn't even realize: all the mages were corrupt, in one form or another. . But we see the seeds for disaster being sown long before the upheval.

With that kind of knowledge and the games being played in the tower, as well as other codexes showing mages being restricted from many very mundane activities, my mage really didn't feel that she could trust the circle to come and help free Connor anyway. But my mage ended up leaving the descision to Gregior, who actually decided to restore the tower, which surprisaed the hell out of her. I wished there were a few more dialogue options, at the least, to confront Irving with your discoveries.

Exactly.  And I want to find Wynne's son.   Irving was no better than the company he kept, after all, he, too was behind Uldred.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

When you consider the Origins story and Jowan's escape, and the info you get when helping irving corner Jowan, again, we see even the First Enchanter is playing games with people. Which was rather cruel, given Jowan's predicament. true, Jowan was an annoying idiot dabbling in Blood Magic. But if Blood Magic was so dangerous, Irving was taking an enormous risk in his "sting" operation, since supposedly, even an amateur Blood Mage can cause ALOT of problems. But obviously, throwing mud on the face of the Chantry, which in the grand scheme of things, amounted to zip in as far as the Chantry/Circle relationship went, was far more important.



But, as Reuben said, basically, mages aren't really people in the minds of most, so you can get away with doing things to mages that would be illegal to do to just about anyone else, including elves. Hell, even casteless dwarves always have the option of moving to the surface and finding a new life.

[cylriasilver]

I don’t quite understand the chantry hate. Yes, their methods seem a bit extreme, but this is a society were justice frequently comes on the spot and from the edge of a sword, and additional help could be days or weeks away.



Let’s not forget that Isolde went outside the circle to get an apostate to teach Conner. A short time later an entire city is on the verge of being wiped out. Call it a hunch, but I suspect Conner is an example of why the PEOPLE demand that the nobility do something, the nobility then gives the chantry the authority collect and control the mages.



The Dalish system isn’t all that perfect either. Keeper Zathrian’s abuse of magic is at fault for a cursed forest, generations of humans and elves suffering as werewolves, and potentially the total destruction of his clan.



When the chantry system broke down it was contained. Unlike the Conner incident, multiple mages when rogue and the village within sight of the tower was unscathed.



The chantry might seem drastic by modern standards, and while the dalish system might work for small travelling clans, something different is needed when people congregate in medieval style towns and cities. Nobody wants to die because the neighbor’s teenager mage son has turned himself into an abomination.

[heat2008]

So no matter what mages will always get screwed over in the end...or the beginning since they don't have much room to start any drastic plans to start with. One should just rip open the veil and let mass demons lose on the lands, see how the Chantry likes that. Multiple tears would be better, run peasants run!

[Sialater]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

When you consider the Origins story and Jowan's escape, and the info you get when helping irving corner Jowan, again, we see even the First Enchanter is playing games with people. Which was rather cruel, given Jowan's predicament. true, Jowan was an annoying idiot dabbling in Blood Magic. But if Blood Magic was so dangerous, Irving was taking an enormous risk in his "sting" operation, since supposedly, even an amateur Blood Mage can cause ALOT of problems. But obviously, throwing mud on the face of the Chantry, which in the grand scheme of things, amounted to zip in as far as the Chantry/Circle relationship went, was far more important.

But, as Reuben said, basically, mages aren't really people in the minds of most, so you can get away with doing things to mages that would be illegal to do to just about anyone else, including elves. Hell, even casteless dwarves always have the option of moving to the surface and finding a new life.

Let's not forget he had Flemeth's Grimoire all those years without ever doing ANYTHING about the abomination in the swamp.

[AntiChri5]

cylriasilver wrote...

I don’t quite understand the chantry hate. Yes, their methods seem a bit extreme, but this is a society were justice frequently comes on the spot and from the edge of a sword, and additional help could be days or weeks away.

Let’s not forget that Isolde went outside the circle to get an apostate to teach Conner. A short time later an entire city is on the verge of being wiped out. Call it a hunch, but I suspect Conner is an example of why the PEOPLE demand that the nobility do something, the nobility then gives the chantry the authority collect and control the mages.

The Dalish system isn’t all that perfect either. Keeper Zathrian’s abuse of magic is at fault for a cursed forest, generations of humans and elves suffering as werewolves, and potentially the total destruction of his clan.

When the chantry system broke down it was contained. Unlike the Conner incident, multiple mages when rogue and the village within sight of the tower was unscathed.

The chantry might seem drastic by modern standards, and while the dalish system might work for small travelling clans, something different is needed when people congregate in medieval style towns and cities. Nobody wants to die because the neighbor’s teenager mage son has turned himself into an abomination.

Yes something has to be done to police mages, but i feel that is best left up to mages like Wynne (and to a lesser extent Irving) to keep their own in check rather than a group of fanatic, militaristic, zeolots controlled by a drug addiction.

On the Chantry hate subject are you familiar with the fall of the Dales? Make no mistake, the Chantry is corrupt.

[SusanStoHelit]

cylriasilver wrote...

The Dalish system isn’t all that perfect either. Keeper Zathrian’s abuse of magic is at fault for a cursed forest, generations of humans and elves suffering as werewolves, and potentially the total destruction of his clan.

This has nothing to do with him being a mage who has been contaminated by a demon, he is not an abomination (the thing feared by the chantry). He is a man who basically was so badly warped by a dreadful life experience that he turned into a 'monster' when it came to those he saw as responsible. He was wrong, he was dangerous, he couldn't see or didnt' care that he was harming innocents or relative innocents. Nothing to do with magic, it wasn't magic that warped him, the only connection with magic was that it enabled him to inflict the curse.

When the chantry system broke down it was contained. Unlike the Conner incident, multiple mages when rogue and the village within sight of the tower was unscathed.

What multiple mages went rogue? Jowan was a blood mage and apostate long before the Connor incident, and didn't cause it. The only other mage there was a child - who didn't know what he was doing and was trying to save his father. In my view, it is his MOTHER, the non-mage who is at fault. If she hadn't covered up Conor's being a mage, none of it would have happened. And she did what she did because of the chantry, its teachings, and the attitudes towards mages it promotes. Therefore, the chantry was the one ultimately responsible for what happened at Redcliffe.

Edit: Further, the chantry was responsible for what happened at the Tower too, without their oppression, Uldred wouldn't have got the backing he needed, very few mages would've turned to blood magic, and so on, and so forth. Oppression causes rebellion, it doesn't ever 'control' people for very long or very well. And always has negative repercussions for everybody.

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 04 janvier 2010 - 03:40 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

cylriasilver wrote...

I don’t quite understand the chantry hate. Yes, their methods seem a bit extreme, but this is a society were justice frequently comes on the spot and from the edge of a sword, and additional help could be days or weeks away.

Let’s not forget that Isolde went outside the circle to get an apostate to teach Conner. A short time later an entire city is on the verge of being wiped out. Call it a hunch, but I suspect Conner is an example of why the PEOPLE demand that the nobility do something, the nobility then gives the chantry the authority collect and control the mages.

The Dalish system isn’t all that perfect either. Keeper Zathrian’s abuse of magic is at fault for a cursed forest, generations of humans and elves suffering as werewolves, and potentially the total destruction of his clan.

When the chantry system broke down it was contained. Unlike the Conner incident, multiple mages when rogue and the village within sight of the tower was unscathed.

The chantry might seem drastic by modern standards, and while the dalish system might work for small travelling clans, something different is needed when people congregate in medieval style towns and cities. Nobody wants to die because the neighbor’s teenager mage son has turned himself into an abomination.

Jowan WAS a circle mage. You are forgetting that. A Circle mage, that, while in the Circle, resorted to Blood magic to free himself so he could not only avoid being made a zombie, but also live a life with his love, who, because of Chantry rules, was off limits to him.

He was apostate because of the circle, not in spite of it. 

As far as the Dalish and Zathrien goes, the curse lasted for generations, and some people suffered, but beyond the shpere of his revenge, Zathrian wasn't rampaging around, demon posessed, and wiping out clans and towns. 

And Isolde, a religous person, found her son being a mage to be so undesirable that she did go outside the Chantry for help.

there is ample evidence that plenty of Non-Chantry mages exist, and do a fine job of policing themselves without Chantry supervision. In otherwords, plenty of mage mentors out there training and helping other non-mage apprentices cope and devlop their powers. The Chantry's role in magic is not one of containment for everyone's benefit, but of monopolization and control of it. Had the PC not intervened when they did, the Chantry's containment might not have held, since the Templars were outnumbered, waiting for reinforcements and all. No outside intervention, and those big doors would have eventually got blasted to pieces.

Not to mention, as we stated before, that the oppresive situation in the tower pretty much led up to and fueled the incident. Had it not been such an undesirable place beforehand, Uldred would have lacked the arguement and cooperation of all the mages that joined him.

And don't get me started on the templars. So yeah, I do hate the Chantry. Beyond the mages, we have the fact that they basically start wars against anyone who refuses to adopt their religion, are pretty hypocritical in their dogma (preach mercy and kindness but plan on leaving Sten locked up in a cage as darkspawn bait) and  resemble many irrational, intolerant religous ideologies in real life that i despise.

[ozenglish]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Mages are the most oppressed people in Ferelden.
.

Hahahaha hehehehe hahaha... *wheeze wheeze* Don't be silly, mages don't count as people!

Gives Reuben some Lyrium and Dynamite, in a better hope of derailing thread.

Though, honestly, I think the apostate class would be classified as being overpowered. No phylactory to identify them, and outside of Chantry control, they would be able to research the old Magic from people like Flemeth. This would enable them to overwhelm their targets if they allow the old demons to possess them as did Flemeth. As Alistair continuously says, "swooping is bad" and lots of apostate dragon shapeshifters swooping at the same time, would be bad.

[ChaoticBroth]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Sialater wrote...

I really wanted a quest to destroy my phylactery.

So did I. Even as my human mage went through the story, it was always in the back of her mind. Once the blight was over, and if she chose to leave the Wardens, would she suddenly become apostate and thus, templar-meat?

Be a nice bit of DLC or mod for a post campaign play. Of course, no consensus has been reached on whether or not the Joining alters you so much that it renders your phylactery void. I don't see why it would, but you never know. And while I'm there, maybe make a couple other phylacteries disappear.

Maybe bring a hammer and "slip and drop it," if you catch my drift.

Jokes aside, it's all a monopolization thing. The Chantry wants power. The mages are one of the most powerful factions out there. As was said before, an amateur blood mage is a danger. An army of properly-trained mages would be lethal to the Chantry's hold on power. But of course, what's the best way to keep yourself in power? Leash whoever can overthrow you, of course! This was simplified by the whole Andraste-Tevinter thing, and all those villagers just decided to go along with the Chantry. And what happens when your target hates being leashed? You get a revolt, a la Broken Circle. Hell, the Templars are lucky (the Pride Demon in) Uldred('s body) and his army didn't decide to just wipe them before they got the Warden comes along. And then what do you get in a few years? The Chantry tightening the leash on all this. Why? "Oh, we had this pretty nasty situation on our hands from a few years back involving a ton of abominations (which were surprisingly weak. I wonder why the Templars say they're so powerful) and a particularly nasty Sloth Demon, so we're just gonna tighten your security, maybe stick Cullen as Knight-Commander (Poor kid's paranoid, I tell you.) or put more Templars with an evil gaze in there." It's all a vicious repeating cycle until the mages make themselves independant. And the Chantry goes all "Exalted March" on them, and hopefully the mages hold 'em off, and then we're all happy and can go dance in a circle while some other screwed up thing is bound to happen in a few years (give or take two centuries).

And there you go, that's my take on it.

[robertthebard]

cylriasilver wrote...

I don’t quite understand the chantry hate. Yes, their methods seem a bit extreme, but this is a society were justice frequently comes on the spot and from the edge of a sword, and additional help could be days or weeks away.

Let’s not forget that Isolde went outside the circle to get an apostate to teach Conner. A short time later an entire city is on the verge of being wiped out. Call it a hunch, but I suspect Conner is an example of why the PEOPLE demand that the nobility do something, the nobility then gives the chantry the authority collect and control the mages.

The Dalish system isn’t all that perfect either. Keeper Zathrian’s abuse of magic is at fault for a cursed forest, generations of humans and elves suffering as werewolves, and potentially the total destruction of his clan.

When the chantry system broke down it was contained. Unlike the Conner incident, multiple mages when rogue and the village within sight of the tower was unscathed.

The chantry might seem drastic by modern standards, and while the dalish system might work for small travelling clans, something different is needed when people congregate in medieval style towns and cities. Nobody wants to die because the neighbor’s teenager mage son has turned himself into an abomination.

Just to touch on something else here, but Zathrien isn't responsible for all of the Forest's problems.  A lot of them existed long before he did his thing.  The Poet Tree will tell you a bit of the history, and you can also get a bit from the Clan story teller.  They will tell you of a great war that was fought there long ago, and that it tore the veil, allowing spirits to come into the forest.  Zathrien stripped the Spirit of the Wood from the wood, but it was already messed up before he did that.

[Nukenin]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

[…]
Some arl's son can indulge in gang rape and murder and abuse of power - and that's okay - another arl indulges in slaving and torture and what all - but using magic? Way too dangerous and evil.

I don't know about you, but in any playthrough of mine the arl's son wot was indulging in gang rape and murder doesn't quite get away with it. 

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

ChaoticBroth wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Sialater wrote...

I really wanted a quest to destroy my phylactery.

So did I. Even as my human mage went through the story, it was always in the back of her mind. Once the blight was over, and if she chose to leave the Wardens, would she suddenly become apostate and thus, templar-meat?

Be a nice bit of DLC or mod for a post campaign play. Of course, no consensus has been reached on whether or not the Joining alters you so much that it renders your phylactery void. I don't see why it would, but you never know. And while I'm there, maybe make a couple other phylacteries disappear.

Maybe bring a hammer and "slip and drop it," if you catch my drift.

Jokes aside, it's all a monopolization thing. The Chantry wants power. The mages are one of the most powerful factions out there. As was said before, an amateur blood mage is a danger. An army of properly-trained mages would be lethal to the Chantry's hold on power. But of course, what's the best way to keep yourself in power? Leash whoever can overthrow you, of course! This was simplified by the whole Andraste-Tevinter thing, and all those villagers just decided to go along with the Chantry. And what happens when your target hates being leashed? You get a revolt, a la Broken Circle. Hell, the Templars are lucky (the Pride Demon in) Uldred('s body) and his army didn't decide to just wipe them before they got the Warden comes along. And then what do you get in a few years? The Chantry tightening the leash on all this. Why? "Oh, we had this pretty nasty situation on our hands from a few years back involving a ton of abominations (which were surprisingly weak. I wonder why the Templars say they're so powerful) and a particularly nasty Sloth Demon, so we're just gonna tighten your security, maybe stick Cullen as Knight-Commander (Poor kid's paranoid, I tell you.) or put more Templars with an evil gaze in there." It's all a vicious repeating cycle until the mages make themselves independant. And the Chantry goes all "Exalted March" on them, and hopefully the mages hold 'em off, and then we're all happy and can go dance in a circle while some other screwed up thing is bound to happen in a few years (give or take two centuries).

And there you go, that's my take on it.

Summed up nicely, better than I could have. But yes. The Chantry, perhaps creating the crisis in the first place, creates excuse and reason to tighten their iron grip in the first place. I wouldn't put it past the Chantry to quietly engineer, or at least aid, a rebellion like what happened in the tower, then send in templars to crush and annul the circle, and create a new, more brutal circle in it's place.

if you're a mage and end up annulling the circle, the epilogue states that after Gregoir retires, Cullen takes over and is quite harsh and cruel. Something that the Chantry, no doubt, approves of.

[cylriasilver]

OK quick question before I continue, because perhaps I missed it.



Can someone direct me to one instance of the Chantry calling upon the mages to help the chantry further any of its goals?



From what I've seen, the KING can call upon the mages to aid in the defense of Feredon, but I've not heard of the Chantry being able to use the mages to attack it's enemies.



I've seen an Arle (or someone acting for the Arle) call upon the mage's services for help, but I've not seen any Chantrys with their own personal mages to heal the sick.



To me the Chantry and the templars seem to just be the mages' jailors, and they do so only at the whim of the King (as far as Fereldon mages go). The mages don't seem any more or less religeous than other organizations. The Chantry has to pay for the templars, and is held responible for every rogue mage that it misses. When it come to magic, between the Nobility and the Chantry, it seems like the Nobility gets to use the power and Chantry is getting the short end of the stick.



What did I miss?

[robertthebard]

cylriasilver wrote...

OK quick question before I continue, because perhaps I missed it.

Can someone direct me to one instance of the Chantry calling upon the mages to help the chantry further any of its goals?

From what I've seen, the KING can call upon the mages to aid in the defense of Feredon, but I've not heard of the Chantry being able to use the mages to attack it's enemies.

I've seen an Arle (or someone acting for the Arle) call upon the mage's services for help, but I've not seen any Chantrys with their own personal mages to heal the sick.

To me the Chantry and the templars seem to just be the mages' jailors, and they do so only at the whim of the King (as far as Fereldon mages go). The mages don't seem any more or less religeous than other organizations. The Chantry has to pay for the templars, and is held responible for every rogue mage that it misses. When it come to magic, between the Nobility and the Chantry, it seems like the Nobility gets to use the power and Chantry is getting the short end of the stick.

What did I miss?

Play this video
Note the ending, where the Knight Commander doesn't want to give up control, despite it being a mage that ended the Blight.

Modifié par robertthebard, 04 janvier 2010 - 02:37 .

[cylriasilver]

Yes, that's what my original ending was like (my Avatar character) but something is being overlooked and something else assumed.



No matter what Greagoir wants, he (and by extension the Chantry) must follow the will of the King. He has the same reservations when Cailan is calling for more mages to fight the blight, but must give in.



Second, we don't know that his motives are selfish. I'm sure a warden would react the same, if the governer was granting the prisoners more ability to police themselves. That doesn't mean the warden is being selfish. He might really be concerned (and Greagoir isn't a bad guy).

[Creature 1]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Jowan WAS a circle mage. You are forgetting that. A Circle mage, that, while in the Circle, resorted to Blood magic to free himself so he could not only avoid being made a zombie, but also live a life with his love, who, because of Chantry rules, was off limits to him.

He was apostate because of the circle, not in spite of it. 

I've played mage twice, the first was my first time playing the game and my character was angry with Jowan for lying to her and getting her involved in a scheme involving blood magic without her knowing.  The second time my mage is an elf who is power-hungry because he doesn't want to be under anyone's thumb.  I noticed on this runthrough that there are not many sympathetic conversation responses when you're talking to Jowan.

In this playthrough I ended up killing Isolde to get into the Fade, then bargaining with the demon for blood magic.  I intended to get her to abandon her claim on Connor but failed the Intimidate check, so I had to let her go into hiding instead.  It ends up being a good thing because I'm writing a fanfic based on this character and this outcome is much more interesting than the alternatives (he convinced Isolde to sacrifice her life for her son and then took the opportunity to trade his soul away for personal gain ). 

[robertthebard]

cylriasilver wrote...

Yes, that's what my original ending was like (my Avatar character) but something is being overlooked and something else assumed.

No matter what Greagoir wants, he (and by extension the Chantry) must follow the will of the King. He has the same reservations when Cailan is calling for more mages to fight the blight, but must give in.

Second, we don't know that his motives are selfish. I'm sure a warden would react the same, if the governer was granting the prisoners more ability to police themselves. That doesn't mean the warden is being selfish. He might really be concerned (and Greagoir isn't a bad guy).

I believe you have answered your questions with the bolded part.  The mage origin states that it's a prison, as well as a sanctuary.  While the King may very well be able to enlist aid, as we can see at the strategy meeting, the Chantry is sitll exerting control of the mages, right under the King's nose, to the point of shutting down any suggestion he might have been about to make.  It's possible that Loghain even planned on that option instead of relying on people in the tower.  That is, of course, not supported any where in game, just a random thought.  However, it is entirely possible that Loghain's idea was shot down before it ever got to the stage of plan, by the Chantry limiting the mage's involvment.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

cylriasilver wrote...

Yes, that's what my original ending was like (my Avatar character) but something is being overlooked and something else assumed.

No matter what Greagoir wants, he (and by extension the Chantry) must follow the will of the King. He has the same reservations when Cailan is calling for more mages to fight the blight, but must give in.

Second, we don't know that his motives are selfish. I'm sure a warden would react the same, if the governer was granting the prisoners more ability to police themselves. That doesn't mean the warden is being selfish. He might really be concerned (and Greagoir isn't a bad guy).

You forget just how much influence the chantry holds over kings and nobles. At the landsmeet, and when you find the templar in Howe's dungeon, you learn that nobles are forbidden from interfering in Chantry business. The Chantry's power might not be direct, but it is there. They have not only their own army, but the faith and fanatacism of many.

The "prisoners" in question, your average mage, has committed no crime (we are not talking about the takeover of the Circle, but the Circle when normal) yet is being locked up for what they are. Almost all are taken from families when very young, and seldom,. if ever, get to leave the tower.  The fact is, that mages can police themselves, and do so outside the Chantry. It is entirely different from a prison full of convicted criminals. Mages, for their own sake and wellbeing, have every reason to police themselves.

The obsession for Chantry controlled magic goes beyond the Circle. In one epilogue, where you encourage Dagna to move to the circle, many mages move to orzammar and form a circle there. the Chantry flips out on this, despite the fact that orzammar, and any Circle formed there, are out of Chantry jurisdiction, and discusses the possibility of a crusade against the dwarves, simply because they allow an organization of non-Chantry controlled mages to exist in their own soverign territory.  And, by the way, the Chantry can declare an Exhalted March whenever the hell they damned well please, and they don't need anyone's permission, not even the king or queen's, to do so.

Make no mistake, when it comes to magic, the Chantry is psychotic. They really cannot stand the idea of magic existing without their authority. The templars are merely their servants, their drones. In ever Chantry you go to, you learn that the templars have little authority, they simply obey the orders of the priestesses. They protect the Chantry, and by Chantry orders, imprison and watch the mages. Gregoir isn't a bad guy per say, but he is a templar, and thus, only speaks what is the will of the Chantry. He will not defy their wishes, nor would any other templar who wishes to remain such do so. And the Chantry ensures such loyalty through a monopoly on lyrium, which the templars and mages both need.

[Sialater]

Who controls the Lyrium controls Thedas. Well, not quite, but the Dune parallel was too much to pass up.



So, the Dark Ritual is going to result in the Kwizats Haderach?



All kidding aside, the Chantry also keeps an iron fist on the mages because of one of the books you give to Wynne. The Search for The True Prophet discusses whether Andraste was a mage. That would really turn those revered mothers on their ears.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Sialater wrote...

Who controls the Lyrium controls Thedas. Well, not quite, but the Dune parallel was too much to pass up.

So, the Dark Ritual is going to result in the Kwizats Haderach?

All kidding aside, the Chantry also keeps an iron fist on the mages because of one of the books you give to Wynne. The Search for The True Prophet discusses whether Andraste was a mage. That would really turn those revered mothers on their ears.

Morrigan would make an excellent Bene Gesserit.

[Sialater]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Who controls the Lyrium controls Thedas. Well, not quite, but the Dune parallel was too much to pass up.

So, the Dark Ritual is going to result in the Kwizats Haderach?

All kidding aside, the Chantry also keeps an iron fist on the mages because of one of the books you give to Wynne. The Search for The True Prophet discusses whether Andraste was a mage. That would really turn those revered mothers on their ears.

Morrigan would make an excellent Bene Gesserit.

Indeed.   Or an Aes Sedai.