348 réponses à ce sujet

[BigTuna82]

Obrusnine wrote...

maia0407 wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

Redeem myself from what? Being the only logical person in this thread?

Oh, noes. Take that back quickly, before someone starts naming all of the logical fallacies in your posts!

Like...? 

BigTuna82 wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Guys he's trolling you. He can't be that stupid, the devs themselves even said it was Shepard.

They never said specifically it was Shepard, only alluded to it.

How is it stupid that I'm interpreting obvious evidence with an investigator's sense, impartial.

I can't
speak for others, but my problem with you is that you use what you see
as a lack of evidence that Shepard lives as your proof that he doesn't
live.  You claim an investigator's sense, but you fail the "absence of
evidence isn't evidence of absense" adage.

Like that.

[maxloef]

Obrusnine wrote...

bigbad1013 wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

bigbad1013 wrote...

What you saw is someone in N7 armor that you are assuming is Shepard, there was no prove there that what you actually saw was Shepard.

I have to hand it to you OP...you'll post something like this and then claim to be the only "logical" person here just a few short posts later. Awesome work with contradicting yourself. Nice effort though, good game.

You do understand what logic is right?

I really shouldn't even respond but...yes, I do in fact know what logic is. Tell me, is it more logical to assume that BioWare would decide to show a random soldier breathing just out of the blue for no reason at all than it is to assume that it is Shepard? You know, the character you have played as for THREE full games? Exactly.

So your saying it's logical to assume that all logic has been thrown on the window? Now who's contradicting themselves...

you are.


now everyone else stop feeding the troll

[Obrusnine]

noobcannon wrote...





again, for those who care, if you are femshep, the breath scene character has boobs. if you choose dudeshep there are no boobs. does this prove that it's shepard? no. does it strongly suggest that it's shepard? yes.

OP's logic: this doesn't prove that it's shepard, so that PROVES that it isn't shepard. derp.

I never said that's what proves it isn't Shepard. Derp.

[noobcannon]

Obrusnine wrote...

noobcannon wrote...





again, for those who care, if you are femshep, the breath scene character has boobs. if you choose dudeshep there are no boobs. does this prove that it's shepard? no. does it strongly suggest that it's shepard? yes.

OP's logic: this doesn't prove that it's shepard, so that PROVES that it isn't shepard. derp.

I never said that's what proves it isn't Shepard. Derp.

so it does prove that it's shepard?

[thebigbad1013]

Obrusnine wrote...

bigbad1013 wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

bigbad1013 wrote...

What you saw is someone in N7 armor that you are assuming is Shepard, there was no prove there that what you actually saw was Shepard.

I have to hand it to you OP...you'll post something like this and then claim to be the only "logical" person here just a few short posts later. Awesome work with contradicting yourself. Nice effort though, good game.

You do understand what logic is right?

I really shouldn't even respond but...yes, I do in fact know what logic is. Tell me, is it more logical to assume that BioWare would decide to show a random soldier breathing just out of the blue for no reason at all than it is to assume that it is Shepard? You know, the character you have played as for THREE full games? Exactly.

So your saying it's logical to assume that all logic has been thrown on the window? Now who's contradicting themselves...

Huh? I do believe that what I said is that it is, in fact, logical to assume that the soldier is Shepard. I will also say that this is my last post in this thread as you are obviously determined to press on with your trolling and dismiss whatever anyone says to you.

[BigTuna82]

Obrusnine wrote...

I'm not trolling, giving my completely 100-percent honest opinion. Although, honestly, it's not even an opinion. How can you refute such an overwhelming amount of evidence and common sense?

Like that.  Ignoring your conspiracy theory of Bioware labeling those files Shepard Lives, where's the common sense in your thinking that Bioware would show just any random person at the end?

[M Hedonist]

Obrusnine wrote...

For the umpteenth time, Bioware showed the scene to cause speculation.

OP acknowledges that the scene was left ambiguous on purpose, yet claims at the same time that there is only one valid interpretation of it.
Contradiction.

[Obrusnine]

BigTuna82 wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

maia0407 wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

Redeem myself from what? Being the only logical person in this thread?

Oh, noes. Take that back quickly, before someone starts naming all of the logical fallacies in your posts!

Like...? 

BigTuna82 wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Guys he's trolling you. He can't be that stupid, the devs themselves even said it was Shepard.

They never said specifically it was Shepard, only alluded to it.

How is it stupid that I'm interpreting obvious evidence with an investigator's sense, impartial.

I can't
speak for others, but my problem with you is that you use what you see
as a lack of evidence that Shepard lives as your proof that he doesn't
live.  You claim an investigator's sense, but you fail the "absence of
evidence isn't evidence of absense" adage.

Like that.

That was completely logical, both what he said and what I said. Although, if any of you has ever taken criminal science of any kind, the absense of evidence is evidence in legal terms as long as there is evidence that the crime has been perpetrated (just comparing it with a legal sense).

Here, there is very little evidence that Shepard survived, overwhelming evidence that he didn't, and logic points to that he did not.

Literally, the only thing that really matters in my eyes is that regardless of his survival in everything, he would've bled out. If he was on Earth, he couldn't have survived getting there. If he was still on the citadel, there was no one to tend to his wounds (unless Anderson survived, which is very unlikely, and wouldn't matter anyways because he doesn't have any medical training).

[Nykara]

So, why do people think we are ever really going to find out anyhow when the next ME isn't even going to be a Shepard one? I think we can speculate until the end of days and no ones ever going to know what was supposed to have happened. Unless they make an expansion or after ending DLC speculation is all it will ever be.

I want to still be able to love Mass Effect like I did in the beginning but I don't see how

[Obrusnine]

noobcannon wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

noobcannon wrote...





again, for those who care, if you are femshep, the breath scene character has boobs. if you choose dudeshep there are no boobs. does this prove that it's shepard? no. does it strongly suggest that it's shepard? yes.

OP's logic: this doesn't prove that it's shepard, so that PROVES that it isn't shepard. derp.

I never said that's what proves it isn't Shepard. Derp.

so it does prove that it's shepard?

No.

[nstar]

Obrusnine wrote...

The first piece of evidence is the obvious one. The Destroy ending obliterates all technology, this is immediatley established about it.

According to Starbrat - an entity in league with the Reapers, who you have been fighting for three games, who have quickly established you as a threat to their existence, who have tried their damndest to eliminate you, permanently and are now suddenly making deals with you. Where is the piece of evidence that says that what Starbrat comes out with must be true?

[Steelcan]

OP, how do you rationalize the in game files that spifically state that Shepard is alive?

Denial can only get you so far.

End03_Shepard_Alive_Fem
End03_Shepard_Alive_Male

[DeinonSlayer]

Sauruz wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

For the umpteenth time, Bioware showed the scene to cause speculation.

OP acknowledges that the scene was left ambiguous on purpose, yet claims at the same time that there is only one valid interpretation of it.
Contradiction.

He also insists "all tech" was destroyed and dismisses all evidence to the contrary as "bad writing," and insists the breath scene takes place on Earth because rebar can't exist anywhere else in the universe.

[Obrusnine]

Sauruz wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

For the umpteenth time, Bioware showed the scene to cause speculation.

OP acknowledges that the scene was left ambiguous on purpose, yet claims at the same time that there is only one valid interpretation of it.
Contradiction.

I never admitted it was ambiguous, I admitted that it was placed there to encourage speculation. That does not define it as ambiguous. Using logic, "Shepard is dead" is the only possible conclusion.

[Peranor]

Bioware was like "look guys, we don't want to imply that Shepard died. But Shepard died".

[Bourne Endeavor]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

If all cybernetics are destroyed, every Quarian in the galaxy would drop dead. Biotics would have a VERY bad day. But it doesn't happen. Seems to me Destroy only targets Reaper tech (relays, EDI, augmented Geth). FTL drives still work. "Tech" isn't destroyed, just a few key things which will eventually be repaired or replaced.

Also, what makes you think he's on Earth at all? The Presidium Tower is where the Crucible was coupled, and it looks completely undamaged in the aftermath.

Sorry - not all of our interpretations are as cynical as yours.

Frankly, I believe we can either chalk the whole "even you have cybernetics" remark to the Catalyst lying or sloppy writing by BioWare, because it does actually insinuate this will happen.

Steelcan wrote...

OP, how do you rationalize the in game files that spifically state that Shepard is alive?

Denial can only get you so far.

End03_Shepard_Alive_Fem
End03_Shepard_Alive_Male

Are we really going to take BioWare's word at face value? They have not been above blatantly lying. Regardless, if Shepard is alive (which I choose to believe). Why not simply commit? Their obsession over speculations is just baffling.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 12 novembre 2012 - 09:49 .

[Obrusnine]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

For the umpteenth time, Bioware showed the scene to cause speculation.

OP acknowledges that the scene was left ambiguous on purpose, yet claims at the same time that there is only one valid interpretation of it.
Contradiction.

He also insists "all tech" was destroyed and dismisses all evidence to the contrary as "bad writing," and insists the breath scene takes place on Earth because rebar can't exist anywhere else in the universe.

I just said, even if he is on the citadel, he would've bled out. I also admitted that the Destroy ending didn't wipe out all technology even though it was said that it was supposed to.

[futurepixels]

Ohhhhhh Chris Priestly.... Come out, come out, wherever you are.

[Steelcan]

Seriously answer me OP, how do you explain the game files that say Shepard is alive?

[maia0407]

Like...? 

I knew I shouldn't have posted that as I hate pointing out logical fallacies. But, just for you, here goes:

The premise of your OP is faulty as it is based on assumptions and not facts. Now, you can construct a logical argument based on warranted assumptions but those assumptions must be disclosed as such up front and not presented as fact.

So, on to the fallacies:

Ad hominem

Argument from Personal Incredulity

Argument from Ignorance

Special Pleading

Modifié par maia0407, 12 novembre 2012 - 09:50 .

[Obrusnine]

Steelcan wrote...

Seriously answer me OP, how do you explain the game files that say Shepard is alive?

For the last freaking time, TO ENCOURAGE SPECULATION. If you had bothered reading any of the posts after, you would've known I've already answered this question 5 times.

[thebigbad1013]

Obrusnine wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

For the umpteenth time, Bioware showed the scene to cause speculation.

OP acknowledges that the scene was left ambiguous on purpose, yet claims at the same time that there is only one valid interpretation of it.
Contradiction.

I never admitted it was ambiguous, I admitted that it was placed there to encourage speculation. That does not define it as ambiguous. Using logic, "Shepard is dead" is the only possible conclusion.

I told myself I wasn't going to do this but I can't help myself. You really like to use the word logic, but how is it logical to assume that Shepard is dead when we actually hear him breathing the last time we see him? When I hear people breathing I generally find it logical to assume that they are alive.

And no. BioWare has stated multiple times that the ending was intentionally left open to interpretation and when something is open to interpretation there simply cannot be only one possible conclusion.

If you are hellbent on believing that Shepard is dead, then go ahead. You've got every right to do so. But that doesn't mean it's true for everyone else.

[Steelcan]

Obrusnine wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Seriously answer me OP, how do you explain the game files that say Shepard is alive?

For the last freaking time, TO ENCOURAGE SPECULATION. If you had bothered reading any of the posts after, you would've known I've already answered this question 5 times.

  It says "Alive" not exactly ambiguous.

[Obrusnine]

maia0407 wrote...

Like...? 

I knew I shouldn't have posted that as I hate pointing out logical fallacies. But, just for you, here goes:

The premise of your OP is faulty as it is based on assumptions and not facts. Now, you can construct a logical argument based on warranted assumptions but those assumptions must be disclosed as such up front and not presented as fact.

So, on to the fallacies:

Ad hominem

Argument from Personal Incredulity

Argument from Ignorance

Special Pleading

Great job, you just presented all of the problems with your guys's argument, not mine. My argument is based on facts that lead to logical assumptions. If I presented everything as if it was fact, I did not mean to. The final conclusion is almost definitely a fact, because there is absolutely no way it could be wrong, unless someone discloses a heretofore unknown piece of information that tips the scales. Otherwise, the logical assumptions can be treated as fact because nothing has been stated to contrary that is of any relevance.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Steelcan wrote...

Seriously answer me OP, how do you explain the game files that say Shepard is alive?

I just did in my post above. What BioWare claims and what is depicted on screen are two very different things. David Gaider on the DA team circumvented death than had the audacity to get angry when people called him out on an incredibly poor retcon. BioWare has a horrible tendency of saying they are going to do something but not actually doing it.