348 réponses à ce sujet

[Samtheman63]

rofl

[Peranor]

Steelcan wrote...

Seriously answer me OP, how do you explain the game files that say Shepard is alive?

Makes sense. I'd say that Shepard was very much alive during that breath scene where he took his last breath. And then died. In horrible pain, laying in his own feces, just praying for someone to end the agony. When finally the sweet embrace of death takes all the pain away and he draws his last breath (and ****** himself).
Thats my headcanon. I know, I know... I'm a sucker for happy endings. 

[M Hedonist]

Logic does not apply to the endings. If Bioware wanted Shepard to be alive, he is alive. In this case, Bioware wanted it to be ambiguous. Hopeful, but still grimdark. It encourages Destroy fans and Destroy opposers at the same time. And it's made on a shoestring budget, as well. Efficiency.

Obrusnine wrote...

I just said, even if he is on the citadel, he would've bled out.

It's unlikely he survived, not impossible, which you claim it to be. We're not talking about a normal human being, anyway. Shepard's body was largely enhanced by tech - which we can't know for sure whether it was damaged by the Destroy wave or not.

[CrystalXPredator]

You know what, the Reapers aren't destroyed on every ending!!
In my playtrough my Shepard is alive. I don't care what troll's are saying.

Only if BioWare confirm it by itself that Shepard is dead, like
"Sorry guy's but that was Shepard's last breath (dead)"

[AlexMBrennan]

Shepard has cybernetic implants, and it has been repeatedly established throughout the series that he cannot live without them

Well, no. Cerberus used some to bring Shepard back to life, but as to whether they are still necessary to sustain life (as opposed to mere super strength and other boni) is pure speculation.

In the beginning of the game, Chakwas checks to make sure your cybernetic implants were okay because she was worried

She'd a bloody poor doctor if she only got worried about imminently fatal concerns - it's enough for failure of implants to render Shepard unable to do combat operations.

The blast would've fried Shepard's implants and instantaneously killed him.

The above makes this pure speculation on your part.

The second piece is a little less obvious, but one of the developers stated that the person taking a breath in the scene is surrounded by Rebar. London has tons of Rebar. Even if you could convince me that Shepard could survive the citadel exploding into pieces, or that Shepard could survive re-entry (which he could not), the chances are even more astronomical that he would land right back in London where he started. Earth is a pretty big planet, you dig? Hell, chances are astronomically low that he would land on land. 70 percent of the Earth is covered in water. Besides, Shepard would die on impact because he is travelling at terminal velocity.

Your argument is that rebar is only found in London... really? Is that all you have got?

Regardless, developer commentary is not canon.

Now I know your going to argue now that Shepard's armor could've protected him. I ask you how? Shepard's armor was torn to bits by Harbinger's beam. He had no kinetic barriers to stop him from being killed by the citadel explosion, re-entry, and hitting the ground.

Depends on the assumption that the scene takes places on Earth, thus begging the question.

he third one is just a question of resilience. I urge you not to put Shepard on too high a pedestal here. Sure, Shepard's a bad-ass, but he's still a HUMAN BEING. It's already amazing that he survived the intense heat from Harbinger's beam, getting shot in the shoulder, and losing a ton of blood. There is no way you an convince me that he also survived everything above.

You said it yourself: Shepard got hit by the beam, got shot, and lost quite a lot of blood but survived, at least long enough to talk to Godchild. Nothing else happens after that, so I don't quite see why you think that he'd get worse.

So just get it into your thick skulls. Just because some dude wearing N7 armor took a breath in the end, just because the people didn't put his name on the wall (How would they even know not to? They are on a jungle planet light-years away from Earth.), just because Shepard's a bad-ass... that does not mean he survived.

Shepard dies in the Destroy ending, end of story.

There is no direct canonical evidence to disprove this assertion, true. However, given that Shepard is the only N7 dude we know, and that we know that it's a video game, it seems quite likely that Shepard did indeed live, however unlikely.

How would they even know not to? They are on a jungle planet light-years away from Earth

So you acknowledge that the writers are not consistent and that there are plot holes in ME3... which kinda undermines your 3rd point ("Shepard's resilience").

[Steelcan]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Seriously answer me OP, how do you explain the game files that say Shepard is alive?

I just did in my post above. What BioWare claims and what is depicted on screen are two very different things. David Gaider on the DA team circumvented death than had the audacity to get angry when people called him out on an incredibly poor retcon. BioWare has a horrible tendency of saying they are going to do something but not actually doing it.

  Their intent on stirring speculation is admirable, but it seems very clear to me that the files do NOT show that SHepard is dead.

[Obrusnine]

bigbad1013 wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

For the umpteenth time, Bioware showed the scene to cause speculation.

OP acknowledges that the scene was left ambiguous on purpose, yet claims at the same time that there is only one valid interpretation of it.
Contradiction.

I never admitted it was ambiguous, I admitted that it was placed there to encourage speculation. That does not define it as ambiguous. Using logic, "Shepard is dead" is the only possible conclusion.

I told myself I wasn't going to do this but I can't help myself. You really like to use the word logic, but how is it logical to assume that Shepard is dead when we actually hear him breathing the last time we see him? When I hear people breathing I generally find it logical to assume that they are alive.

And no. BioWare has stated multiple times that the ending was intentionally left open to interpretation and when something is open to interpretation there simply cannot be only one possible conclusion.

If you are hellbent on believing that Shepard is dead, then go ahead. You've got every right to do so. But that doesn't mean it's true for everyone else.

How many times do I also need to say that there is no definitive proof that that was even Shepard other then "why else would they have put it there?" and "what about that code?" (which isn't even definitive). There is actually evidence that contradicts that fact as all logic leads to Shepard is dead.

Also, Shepard was not wearing that N7 badge prior to the breathing scene. So it just suddenly appears out of thin air and we accept that? I actually don't ever remember Shepard ever wearing such a badge, even when he is shirtless. So basically, I am saying that the breather is James Vega, as he is the only one I have ever seen wearing such a badge.

[MegaIllusiveMan]

Obrusnine wrote...

Illusive Man hates Shepard wrote...

OP, you're wrong and you know it. At least change the title... It's your opinion. You can't change the world with your opinion, neither can I, neither can anyone... Please, stop arguing, redeem yourself.

Redeem myself from what? Being the only logical person in this thread?

Well, you're logic, but from your point of view.
From everyone's else, you're being illogical.

Oh, and I discovered what is Rebar... Reinforcement Bar. FEAR ME

[Argolas]

Just noticed that thread. Sorry OP, but you're wrong. Bioware have already confirmed that Shepard lives, and although they say it is open for interpretation by now, they still confirm that the one in the Breath Scene is Shepard.

[BigTuna82]

Obrusnine wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Seriously answer me OP, how do you explain the game files that say Shepard is alive?

For the last freaking time, TO ENCOURAGE SPECULATION. If you had bothered reading any of the posts after, you would've known I've already answered this question 5 times.

Your conspiracy theory aside, so Bioware chose to show some random person?  That's your common sense?

[M Hedonist]

Obrusnine wrote...

So basically, I am saying that the breather is James Vega, as he is the only one I have ever seen wearing such a badge.

God damn it. I laughed so hard there's spit on my monitor.
It's James Vega. James Vega with boobs, in some cases. Brilliant.

[Steelcan]

anorling wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Seriously answer me OP, how do you explain the game files that say Shepard is alive?

Makes sense. I'd say that Shepard was very much alive during that breath scene where he took his last breath. And then died. In horrible pain, laying in his own feces, just praying for someone to end the agony. When finally the sweet embrace of death takes all the pain away and he draws his last breath (and ****** himself).
Thats my headcanon. I know, I know... I'm a sucker for happy endings. 

  How often does someone die in a movie, video game, TV seriest etc.... by breathing in?  Shepard is breathing in.  Death is portrayed by breathing out then flat-lining.  Shepard breathes in, and then that is it.

[Deitar]

Probably someone said it already, but in the game files said video is named somewhere along the lines of "*male/female*_shep_destr_surv.avi"

Modifié par Deitar, 12 novembre 2012 - 10:02 .

[thebigbad1013]

How many times do I also need to say that there is no definitive proof that that was even Shepard other then "why else would they have put it there?" and "what about that code?" (which isn't even definitive). There is actually evidence that contradicts that fact as all logic leads to Shepard is dead.

Also, Shepard was not wearing that N7 badge prior to the breathing scene. So it just suddenly appears out of thin air and we accept that? I actually don't ever remember Shepard ever wearing such a badge, even when he is shirtless. So basically, I am saying that the breather is James Vega, as he is the only one I have ever seen wearing such a badge.

And now I regret responding. This is really just going around in circles. No definitive proof that it was Shepard also means no definitive proof that it wasn't. That being the case, you can't determine with certainty that Shepard is not alive. You can insist all you want but it's inevitably going to be a losing cause.

[DeinonSlayer]

Sauruz wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

So basically, I am saying that the breather is James Vega, as he is the only one I have ever seen wearing such a badge.

God damn it. I laughed so hard there's spit on my monitor.
It's James Vega. James Vega with boobs, in some cases. Brilliant.

He felt like burying himself after attending the aborted memorial scene.

He's emo like that.

[Obrusnine]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Shepard has cybernetic implants, and it has been repeatedly established throughout the series that he cannot live without them

Well, no. Cerberus used some to bring Shepard back to life, but as to whether they are still necessary to sustain life (as opposed to mere super strength and other boni) is pure speculation.

In the beginning of the game, Chakwas checks to make sure your cybernetic implants were okay because she was worried

She'd a bloody poor doctor if she only got worried about imminently fatal concerns - it's enough for failure of implants to render Shepard unable to do combat operations.

The blast would've fried Shepard's implants and instantaneously killed him.

The above makes this pure speculation on your part.

The second piece is a little less obvious, but one of the developers stated that the person taking a breath in the scene is surrounded by Rebar. London has tons of Rebar. Even if you could convince me that Shepard could survive the citadel exploding into pieces, or that Shepard could survive re-entry (which he could not), the chances are even more astronomical that he would land right back in London where he started. Earth is a pretty big planet, you dig? Hell, chances are astronomically low that he would land on land. 70 percent of the Earth is covered in water. Besides, Shepard would die on impact because he is travelling at terminal velocity.

Your argument is that rebar is only found in London... really? Is that all you have got?

Regardless, developer commentary is not canon.

Now I know your going to argue now that Shepard's armor could've protected him. I ask you how? Shepard's armor was torn to bits by Harbinger's beam. He had no kinetic barriers to stop him from being killed by the citadel explosion, re-entry, and hitting the ground.

Depends on the assumption that the scene takes places on Earth, thus begging the question.

he third one is just a question of resilience. I urge you not to put Shepard on too high a pedestal here. Sure, Shepard's a bad-ass, but he's still a HUMAN BEING. It's already amazing that he survived the intense heat from Harbinger's beam, getting shot in the shoulder, and losing a ton of blood. There is no way you an convince me that he also survived everything above.

You said it yourself: Shepard got hit by the beam, got shot, and lost quite a lot of blood but survived, at least long enough to talk to Godchild. Nothing else happens after that, so I don't quite see why you think that he'd get worse.

So just get it into your thick skulls. Just because some dude wearing N7 armor took a breath in the end, just because the people didn't put his name on the wall (How would they even know not to? They are on a jungle planet light-years away from Earth.), just because Shepard's a bad-ass... that does not mean he survived.

Shepard dies in the Destroy ending, end of story.

There is no direct canonical evidence to disprove this assertion, true. However, given that Shepard is the only N7 dude we know, and that we know that it's a video game, it seems quite likely that Shepard did indeed live, however unlikely.

How would they even know not to? They are on a jungle planet light-years away from Earth

So you acknowledge that the writers are not consistent and that there are plot holes in ME3... which kinda undermines your 3rd point ("Shepard's resilience").

You make good points, I am willing to drop the cybernetic implants thing as the only thing that truly matters is the end result. Regardless of whether Shepard is on Earth or the Citadel, there is no one nearby to provide the medical attention he needs. Shepard was at the point of death when he was brought up to talk ot the Starchild. Without immediate medical attention, he would've bled out, even if we ignore the explosion and rubble probably injuring him either further.

[Obrusnine]

Sauruz wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

So basically, I am saying that the breather is James Vega, as he is the only one I have ever seen wearing such a badge.

God damn it. I laughed so hard there's spit on my monitor.
It's James Vega. James Vega with boobs, in some cases. Brilliant.

I was being sarcastic, I'm glad my joke made you laugh though, even if it was for the wrong reasons.

[BigTuna82]

Sauruz wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

So basically, I am saying that the breather is James Vega, as he is the only one I have ever seen wearing such a badge.

God damn it. I laughed so hard there's spit on my monitor.
It's James Vega. James Vega with boobs, in some cases. Brilliant.

Wow.  I think we're done here.

[Steelcan]

OP, I think you are really thinking about this too much. If Shepard had died in the Destroy ending there would not have been a breath scene. There is a breath scene in the destroy ending. Therefore Shepard survived High EMS Destroy.

[BigTuna82]

Obrusnine wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

So basically, I am saying that the breather is James Vega, as he is the only one I have ever seen wearing such a badge.

God damn it. I laughed so hard there's spit on my monitor.
It's James Vega. James Vega with boobs, in some cases. Brilliant.

I was being sarcastic, I'm glad my joke made you laugh though, even if it was for the wrong reasons.

Nice try at a recovery.

[Ieldra]

I can't believe this.

Here is an OP who twists the meaning of what's shown to us in order to make the ending appear worse than it is? What's happened to people? Don't they prefer a better to a worse ending? Or are they just spiteful and determined to ensure that if they can't have a super-happy one, nobody else will even have a reasonably good one?

[Steelcan]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

So basically, I am saying that the breather is James Vega, as he is the only one I have ever seen wearing such a badge.

God damn it. I laughed so hard there's spit on my monitor.
It's James Vega. James Vega with boobs, in some cases. Brilliant.

He felt like burying himself after attending the aborted memorial scene.

He's emo like that.

Wait a minute......... How do the Normandy surviors know that SHepard is dead in Control or Synthesis?  They ahve no reason to believe that Shepard died.

[Peranor]

Steelcan wrote...

anorling wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Seriously answer me OP, how do you explain the game files that say Shepard is alive?

Makes sense. I'd say that Shepard was very much alive during that breath scene where he took his last breath. And then died. In horrible pain, laying in his own feces, just praying for someone to end the agony. When finally the sweet embrace of death takes all the pain away and he draws his last breath (and ****** himself).
Thats my headcanon. I know, I know... I'm a sucker for happy endings. 

  How often does someone die in a movie, video game, TV seriest etc.... by breathing in?  Shepard is breathing in.  Death is portrayed by breathing out then flat-lining.  Shepard breathes in, and then that is it.

Well of course. They couldn't show Shepard breathing out. That would have been to obvious. That is why the scene cut to black so fast.

[Silcron]

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

Obrusnine wrote...

So basically, I am saying that the breather is James Vega, as he is the only one I have ever seen wearing such a badge.

God damn it. I laughed so hard there's spit on my monitor.
It's James Vega. James Vega with boobs, in some cases. Brilliant.

He felt like burying himself after attending the aborted memorial scene.

He's emo like that.

Wait a minute......... How do the Normandy surviors know that SHepard is dead in Control or Synthesis?  They ahve no reason to believe that Shepard died.

Wait...he's right about this O_0

[Steelcan]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I can't believe this.

Here is an OP who twists the meaning of what's shown to us in order to make the ending appear worse than it is? What's happened to people? Don't they prefer a better to a worse ending? Or are they just spiteful and determined to ensure that if they can't have a super-happy one, nobody else will even have a reasonably good one?

I think you hit on the nose, Ieldra