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We must transcend the petty Bffls of Dragon age past and achieve something much more engrossing


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#1
Emzamination

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I speak of a emotional connection that runs far deeper than any trivial romance or passing friendship.I speak of true Sister/brotherhood, forged not from the womb but a deeper family bond forged through turmoil, struggle, trust and battle.These in-depth characters have been very few in bioware games.


To iterate the type of connection I speak

Morrigan - As most who would be reading this sub-forum know, in origins, morrigans was a troubled woman full of conflicting emotions regarding what her mother taught her to feel and what the warden opened her to feeling.

For me, she conveyed feelings of pity and remorse for what she had unjustly endured, which triggered a want to show her the world isn't as drab as her mother had made it out to be.

Further down the line after learning about that business with flemeth, I wanted to be her Aegis, to stand between her and the world as Harvard did with maferath. But not out of some sense of righteousness or because I wanted to kill some demon but because after all the immersive talks and comradery, I had grown to love her as sister.

Post-flemeth somethings off about the character... her dialogue tends to drown out those feelings more and more as the character doesn't really refer to... Au well I'm going off topic... anyways.

Everyone else in origins Sten, oghren, alistair, leliana, ect didn't convey those family bonds for me.The emotional connection never went past loyal comrads or romantic partner.leliana does make a comment on how she's found a new family with the warden and her comrads but there was no trace of family there.

In short whoever wrote morrigan was onto that familia feeling I speak of but they dropped the ball mid-to post game.However there is a powerful scene which was written by gaider and cut from the game (can't understand why) which conveys that sisterly love between morrigan and femwarden spectacularly.

________________________________________________________________________________

Dragon age 2 - Bethany just proves that such emotional bonds can't be made, they must be forged.Whether friendship or rivalry, I never loved bethany.She was a very well written character, don't get me wrong but she lacked that certain depth where 2 people are ready to sacrifice everything to protect one another.

Bioware tried to force that at the end with a warden bethany, but she'd been gone most of the game, we hadn't struggled together so I didn't care at that point.



________________________________________________________________________________


Kaidan/Femshep - brother/sister

Kaidan/Femshep - platonic goodbye - The brother/sister love portrayed between these two friends showed me what deep emotionally compelling writing really was.There simply are no words to convey the emotional storm that pulls you with these two.Better than any romance I've expierenced in a bioware game and I play them mostly for that aspect.

:wub:

I don't want more best friends in Da3, I want a family, and not one through blood but one I can earn myself via my companions, but I doubt Da3 or any rpg anytime soon will sate my emotional demands in their writing.I'm hoping the writers of the DA team have it in them but one character (that got botched) in 2 games isn't leaving me alot of hope. :(

Modifié par Emzamination, 12 novembre 2012 - 11:09 .


#2
ashesandwine

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This is cheesy.

#3
Emzamination

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^ Newbies... no emotions.

#4
FINE HERE

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I didn't get that vibe with Morrigan. She was annoying to me, even when I forced myself to befriend her. So I don't understand your point.

I think the DA:O relationships were miles ahead of DA2. I never felt a connection to the DA2 characters, I barely knew them. They would talk about themselves, sure, but they usaully said the same thing over and over again until that was all I could remember about them. Seriously, all I remember about Fenris is that he is a former slave that wants to kill his magic using former master and that he hates magic. I could write a book about everything I know about Alistair.

I cared way more about Sten, Wynn and the DA:O cast than I did with the DA2 companions, and I'm not exactly sure why that is.

I see your point of wanting a more memorable companion/player relation that goes beyond friends or buds, but as I mentioned about Morrigan, that's gonna be difficult. Everyone has different tastes and etc, but I think that what Bioware's been doing so far isn't too wrong. If DA3 combines elements of DA:O and DA2's companions and relationships, I think it will be good.

#5
unbentbuzzkill

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leave it emzamination to make something so.......... unique.

#6
Emzamination

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FINE HERE wrote...

I didn't get that vibe with Morrigan. She was annoying to me, even when I forced myself to befriend her. So I don't understand your point.

I think the DA:O relationships were miles ahead of DA2. I never felt a connection to the DA2 characters, I barely knew them. They would talk about themselves, sure, but they usaully said the same thing over and over again until that was all I could remember about them. Seriously, all I remember about Fenris is that he is a former slave that wants to kill his magic using former master and that he hates magic. I could write a book about everything I know about Alistair.

I cared way more about Sten, Wynn and the DA:O cast than I did with the DA2 companions, and I'm not exactly sure why that is.

I see your point of wanting a more memorable companion/player relation that goes beyond friends or buds, but as I mentioned about Morrigan, that's gonna be difficult. Everyone has different tastes and etc, but I think that what Bioware's been doing so far isn't too wrong. If DA3 combines elements of DA:O and DA2's companions and relationships, I think it will be good.


Hmmmmmmm I'd question this but... no, everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

#7
Emzamination

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unbentbuzzkill wrote...

leave it emzamination to make something so.......... unique.


Auuuu how sweet

Image IPB

Modifié par Emzamination, 12 novembre 2012 - 11:32 .


#8
unbentbuzzkill

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yeah that's me a sweet teddy bear :) but really i agree with you nice post.

#9
Emzamination

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^

Indeed. My sincere thanks messere.

#10
Sable Rhapsody

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*shrug* I genuinely liked the DA:O and DA2 characters, about equally. I just appreciate that in both games you got to determine Hawke's feelings and attitude toward these people. No forced buddy-buddy like in ME3.

#11
unbentbuzzkill

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there's no forced buddies in ME.

#12
Emzamination

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^ you didn't find them lacking, sable? They all came off as Bffs to me, not achieving their true apex.

#13
Nashiktal

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unbentbuzzkill wrote...

there's no forced buddies in ME.


You are kidding right? Liara was made shep's friend, no matter what. Even after you yell at her during ME1.

#14
Twisted Path

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I didn't see anything profound or complex about Morrigan. She just seemed like the token evil companion who constantly complained when you didn't murder people and eat their souls for fun and profit.

#15
Wifflebottom

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Well I think by ME3 Shepard has very strong familial bonds with Liara, Garrus, Tali, and the VS provided they all live even without a romance. Most of those are kind of forced but in Origins I felt that Alistair and Morrigan grew to be like family if you treated them nicely, especially Alistair. Wynne too if you're nice to her. In DA2 depending on how you played Aveline and Hawke got to be very close, they came to Kirkwall together as refugees and they stand by each other throughout the game, she's incredibly loyal and to me that's a sign of kinship but your actual family members in DA2 kind of sucked lol.

#16
unbentbuzzkill

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@ nashiktal

liara was not a forced friend just essential in the grand scheme of things.

@twistedpath
morrigan was one of the most fascinating characters in DA:O i loved her character and i didn't find her evil at all just overly pragmatic, but even she has a soft side just takes a little effort to uncover it.

#17
henkez3

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FINE HERE wrote...

I didn't get that vibe with Morrigan. She was annoying to me, even when I forced myself to befriend her. So I don't understand your point.

I think the DA:O relationships were miles ahead of DA2. I never felt a connection to the DA2 characters, I barely knew them. They would talk about themselves, sure, but they usaully said the same thing over and over again until that was all I could remember about them. Seriously, all I remember about Fenris is that he is a former slave that wants to kill his magic using former master and that he hates magic. I could write a book about everything I know about Alistair.

I cared way more about Sten, Wynn and the DA:O cast than I did with the DA2 companions, and I'm not exactly sure why that is.

I see your point of wanting a more memorable companion/player relation that goes beyond friends or buds, but as I mentioned about Morrigan, that's gonna be difficult. Everyone has different tastes and etc, but I think that what Bioware's been doing so far isn't too wrong. If DA3 combines elements of DA:O and DA2's companions and relationships, I think it will be good.


I agree.

When Sten talked about not being able to go home and I said he could stay, his "... Thank you" really got through to me, that was a great moment. Morrigan was... Okay.

#18
Emzamination

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Twisted Path wrote...

I didn't see anything profound or complex about Morrigan. She just seemed like the token evil companion who constantly complained when you didn't murder people and eat their souls for fun and profit.


You're not looking past the surface then. Morrigan's selfishness and 'survival of the fittest' attitude was a product of her mother ingrained into her, that wasn't who she was.Morrigan reveals her confused, sweet & innocent nature subtly through dialogue and her actions.

Morrigan professes her preference at surving alone in the word, yet she later admits how happy she is to have the warden's friendship.

Morrigan constantly brings up how love is for the weak and foolish, yet she later admits to a romanced warden that she can't do without it.

Morrigan says she dislikes human society, yet every major hub you enter with her in the party, she'll express shock and amazement at how people live together in cities.

Morrigan professes her disdain for dog, yet she continues to secretly feed him treats and in the witch hunt scene, we see how happy she is to see him.

She is a complex character because her proclaimed views and her actions are constantly contradicting each other.If she acts evil, it's only because her mother made her so or rather tried to.

#19
WhiteThunder

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I freakin loved Alistair in DA: O. I never really got that vibe from any DA2 companions.

#20
hobbit of the shire

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FINE HERE wrote...
I see your point of wanting a more memorable companion/player relation that goes beyond friends or buds, but as I mentioned about Morrigan, that's gonna be difficult. Everyone has different tastes and etc, but I think that what Bioware's been doing so far isn't too wrong. If DA3 combines elements of DA:O and DA2's companions and relationships, I think it will be good.


Everyone's going to have different tastes, yes, and the dialogue options you choose affects greatly the experience.  But because precisely of this, every single companion should have a deep side.  Depending on your behavior, you may get to experience it or not, but all of these characters should be very well thought out.  You should be able to write a book about them before actually putting the character into the game.  I'm trying to my best to forge friend/rival relationships with the DA2 companions, but there really isn't enough text to do that.  Most of them are pretty shallow and most of the deep stuff is my own headcanon.  Felt closer to the DAO companions.  But still, there could be more done.

You just gave me a thought, OP, that forging the most in-depth relationship shouldn't just making a companion an LI.  There is so much focus on the LI relationship, but there are other sisterly/brotherly/parent/child relationships that could be forged.  After all, being with companions for so long (in the case of DA2), if you still have them around, then they should be at many types of relationship with you: a) your mercenary, minimal pointless chit-chat, B) your co-worker, c) ally because of a common goal, d) LI, e) friend.  Dialogue should be nuanced enough to choose different paths that lead to one or another.  Problem is so far we get the insane party banter (some are great, but lots are sooooo childish).  I'd never see most of them realistically happening.  And then most of the convos just lead to friend/rival and nothing in between.... with much of the deep stuff happening when your companion becomes an LI.

#21
rapscallioness

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Yeah, the Morrigan/FemWarden path was cool to me. Her and I started off on the wrong foot, but as time went by I came to consider her a "sister".

I did feel closer to the Comapnions in DAO. I think that's because it felt like we went thru more together. The quests were bigger. Looonger. More involved.

You went thru the ordeals together until you crawled out at the end w/ a ton of loot; a bunch of red injury squares above the names; and sincerely hoping you wouldn't get ambushed on the way back to camp.

And....everyone was always around. In the camp. Just the proximity made me feel like we were really in it together. In DA2, it was a nice idea about everyone doing their own thing, but it took something away.

Roughing together. Eating together. These seemingly small things build a bond.

#22
Pseudo the Mustachioed

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What kind of connection you make with a character is based entirely on the individual player. The writers write interesting relationship arcs and people do or do not respond to them as the arcs appeal to their interests and preferences. You obviously liked some more than the others, but that doesn't mean the others are somehow more shallow or "petty." And why can't some connections be "shallow"? I'd probably gag if every relationship my PC forms is some sort of sparkly transcendent friendship.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 13 novembre 2012 - 05:29 .


#23
Dhiro

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Well... I liked being BFF with Morrigan. But I also liked being BFF with Isabela.

So I think things balanced themselves in the end!

#24
Maria Caliban

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hobbit_of_the_shire wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...
I see your point of wanting a more memorable companion/player relation that goes beyond friends or buds, but as I mentioned about Morrigan, that's gonna be difficult. Everyone has different tastes and etc, but I think that what Bioware's been doing so far isn't too wrong. If DA3 combines elements of DA:O and DA2's companions and relationships, I think it will be good.


Everyone's going to have different tastes, yes, and the dialogue options you choose affects greatly the experience.  But because precisely of this, every single companion should have a deep side. 

I tend to disagree. Every companion should have a point, a reason to be involved in the story from an outside perspective, but they don't all need to be 'deep.' Any more than they all need to be funny or passionate or political or good looking.

#25
Blight Nug

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Pseudocognition wrote...

What kind of connection you make with a character is based entirely on the individual player. The writers write interesting relationship arcs and people do or do not respond to them as the arcs appeal to their interests and preferences. You obviously liked some more than the others, but that doesn't mean the others are somehow more shallow or "petty." And why can't some connections be "shallow"? I'd probably gag if every relationship my PC forms is some sort of sparkly transcendent friendship.


I agree with this!

We all "fill in the gaps" for these characters based on our own imagination and experience. We also do this to people we meet in real life. 

I cared for Bethany a lot more than I cared for Morrigan.