19 réponses à ce sujet

[jdmteggy4life]

how should i spec his slam???????

[RedCaesar97]

I would not bother speccing Javik into Slam since his Pull is better, unless you found a way (through modding or editing the coalesced.bin file) to remove points from Dark Channel.

Otherwise (and I cannot remember which order they go in), you probably want Radius, Combo damage, Stun.

[DrGunjah]

I prefer slam because it can detonate other biotics, does damage and has a very short cooldown too. I would go with force/detonate/recharge speed, though it's a matter of taste.
One point in pull is enough for guardians if you have no cover piercing.

[RedCaesar97]

DrGunjah wrote...
I prefer slam because it can detonate other biotics .... 

Interesting opinion, although since we are talking about Javik's slam, I wonder if that is even necessary considering of the three classes with native biotic abilities, (Adept, Vanguard, and Sentinel), they all have abilities that can detonate biotic explosions:
 - Adept has Warp, Throw, and Shockwave (and Cluster Grenade?)
 - Vanguard has Shockwave, Charge, and Nova
 - Sentinel has Warp and Throw (and Lift Grenade?)

Only the non-biotic classes would benefit from Javik's Slam detonating explosions if you took Dark Channel or Reave (not sure if you can Slam an enemy in Stasis. Probably, never tried it). But even then, I feel only Dark Channel would benefit the most since it cannot detonate whereas Reave can.

[Loki_344]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

I would not bother speccing Javik into Slam since his Pull is better, unless you found a way (through modding or editing the coalesced.bin file) to remove points from Dark Channel.

Otherwise (and I cannot remember which order they go in), you probably want Radius, Combo damage, Stun.

I concur with this build as it gives slam increased utility and crowd control applications.

[DrGunjah]

RedCaesar97 wrote...
Interesting opinion, although since we are talking about Javik's slam, I wonder if that is even necessary considering of the three classes with native biotic abilities, (Adept, Vanguard, and Sentinel), they all have abilities that can detonate biotic explosions:
 - Adept has Warp, Throw, and Shockwave (and Cluster Grenade?)
 - Vanguard has Shockwave, Charge, and Nova
 - Sentinel has Warp and Throw (and Lift Grenade?)

Only the non-biotic classes would benefit from Javik's Slam detonating explosions if you took Dark Channel or Reave (not sure if you can Slam an enemy in Stasis. Probably, never tried it). But even then, I feel only Dark Channel would benefit the most since it cannot detonate whereas Reave can.

It's all a matter of taste. Though if you are into detonations (I'm not) and don't have biotics in your build (Soldier with Reave is lame  ) you might consider slam to detonate dark channel. If you have ash alive instead of kaidan your options for biotics are not that wide-ranging.
I don't see the big benefit of pull. IIRC you can use slam as detonation source too (you just have to be fast) and the crowd control it provides is more predictable.

[Drayce333]

Slam on Javik is amazing. Its a death sentence to all unprotected targets. The lift makes targets extremely vulnerable and I find garrus has a high tendency to snipe targets that are held by it. If the enemy doesn't die from being shot at while lifted, being exploded by a biotic combo, or killed from the fall damage, it will be crippled for a bit before rejoining the fight. Its also a stagger on shielded targets.

Spec it in Radius, Biotic Combo, and Recharge.

Everything with armor you can just use Dark Channel, it gives a powerful DoT and a free biotic prime. Both of these powers are all you need to care about and they make javik a strong squadmate.

Lift Grenades on him are too limited to even really care about but you should level that after his passive, slam and dark channel because Pull is absolutely useless. Slam completely renders pull obsolete since the cooldown can gets as low as 5 seconds for slam and it just does so much more.

Modifié par Drayce333, 14 novembre 2012 - 09:17 .

[Guglio08]

Pull is better. I never spec into Slam because it does pitiful damage and has virtually no utility. Pull can yank Guardian shields or force enemies out of entrenched positions. Radius and Double Pull are very effective crowd control upgrades. For single player, it's very good.

[RedCaesar97]

Drayce333 wrote...

Slam on Javik is amazing. Its a death sentence to all unprotected targets. The lift makes targets extremely vulnerable and I find garrus has a high tendency to snipe targets that are held by it. If the enemy doesn't die from being shot at while lifted, being exploded by a biotic combo, or killed from the fall damage, it will be crippled for a bit before rejoining the fight. Its also a stagger on shielded targets.

With the exception of Slam's fall damage, Pull does exactly the same thing and the lift duration on Pull is about the same as Slam with the Stun evolution.

Lift Grenades on him are too limited to even really care about but you should level that after his passive, slam and dark channel because Pull is absolutely useless. Slam completely renders pull obsolete since the cooldown can gets as low as 5 seconds for slam and it just does so much more.

Not sure where you get the idea that Pull is somehow useless compared to Pull. Pull cooldown on Javik get can lower than 5 seconds. I think I have it on a 3-4 second cooldown and it does the same job as Slam except it cannot detonate biotic explosions.

I was actually thinking about this a little more, and Javik using both Pull+Slam can prime and detonate his own biotic explosions, putting him in the same league as Liara. That makes Liara, Javik, and Ashley as the only squadmates that can reliably prime and detonate their own combos. Note that it is possible for James to detonate his own combos but he cannot do it reliably or as often as those three. Tali probably could as well with Explosive Drone and Energy Drain, but most definitely not reliably.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 14 novembre 2012 - 12:35 .

[Bob Garbage]

I rarely spec his slam. Pull/Dark Channel/Lift Grenades makes the whole world die.

[Drayce333]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Drayce333 wrote...

Slam on Javik is amazing. Its a death sentence to all unprotected targets. The lift makes targets extremely vulnerable and I find garrus has a high tendency to snipe targets that are held by it. If the enemy doesn't die from being shot at while lifted, being exploded by a biotic combo, or killed from the fall damage, it will be crippled for a bit before rejoining the fight. Its also a stagger on shielded targets.

With the exception of Slam's fall damage, Pull does exactly the same thing and the lift duration on Pull is about the same as Slam with the Stun evolution.

Lift Grenades on him are too limited to even really care about but you should level that after his passive, slam and dark channel because Pull is absolutely useless. Slam completely renders pull obsolete since the cooldown can gets as low as 5 seconds for slam and it just does so much more.

Not sure where you get the idea that Pull is somehow useless compared to Pull. Pull cooldown on Javik get can lower than 5 seconds. I think I have it on a 3-4 second cooldown and it does the same job as Slam except it cannot detonate biotic explosions.

I was actually thinking about this a little more, and Javik using both Pull+Slam can prime and detonate his own biotic explosions, putting him in the same league as Liara. That makes Liara, Javik, and Ashley as the only squadmates that can reliably prime and detonate their own combos. Note that it is possible for James to detonate his own combos but he cannot do it reliably or as often as those three. Tali probably could as well with Explosive Drone and Energy Drain, but most definitely not reliably.

Pull is completely useless on javik since he has slam which is a direct upgrade of the power in everyway, did you hate on miranda's slam in ME2 (Not defending that, warp, overload, and cerberus leader >>>>>>>>>slam power for her)? I think you just have a negative stigma about the power from the first and WANT to hate it.  Also recharge > stun evolution on him. Pull -> Slam is not worth bothering with. Much quicker to just use your or a squadmates biotic then have javik slam to detonate or just use javiks slam and shoot the enemy while its locked in the air.

[RedCaesar97]

Drayce333 wrote...
Pull is completely useless on javik since he has slam which is a direct upgrade of the power in everyway, did you hate on miranda's slam in ME2 (Not defending that, warp, overload, and cerberus leader >>>>>>>>>slam power for her)? I think you just have a negative stigma about the power from the first and WANT to hate it.  Also recharge > stun evolution on him. Pull -> Slam is not worth bothering with. Much quicker to just use your or a squadmates biotic then have javik slam to detonate or just use javiks slam and shoot the enemy while its locked in the air.

No I do not hate Slam. I have no stigma towards it whatsoever. Just that on Javik, I think Pull is much better choice.

Let me try to explain my reasoning:
- On Javik, both Pull and Slam are instant-cast. 
- Both Pull and Slam will stagger protected enemies. 
- Both Pull and Slam are single-target abilities that can be upgraded to affect multiple targets in a radius.

So far, they do the same job. Now here is where I start to prefer Javik's Pull to Slam:

- Pull will keep enemies in the air for a set duration. Slam will lift enemies in the air before slamming them to the ground. This makes Pull better for setting up biotic explosions or shooting the helpless enemy.

- Slam can detonate biotic explosions whereas Pull cannot. However: 
 a. The three biotics classes (Adept, Vanguard, and Sentinel) can already detonate biotic explosions.
 b. The three other classes (Soldier, Engineer, and Infiltrator) will need Dark Channel or Reave (or possibly Stasis) to set up biotic explosions with Javik's Slam. Dark Channel seems like such an odd choice--not a bad choice, just an odd choice-- as a bonus power for those classes. That leaves Reave. Reave can both set up and detonate biotic explosions; so since it can detonate, Pull does the same setup job as Slam only better.
     And I would argue that non-biotic bonus powers are better for those classes unless you specifically want a biotic bonus power so you can explode with both Liara and Javik. And Slam may be the best biotic bonus power for those classes anyway, although that is certainly debatable.

- Pull has a quicker cooldown. You mentioned a 5 second cooldown for Slam. Pull has a quicker cooldown and can be as low as 3-4 seconds on Javik. That means you can use it more often than Slam, perfect for Adepts and Sentinels that use Throw.

[Drayce333]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Drayce333 wrote...
Pull is completely useless on javik since he has slam which is a direct upgrade of the power in everyway, did you hate on miranda's slam in ME2 (Not defending that, warp, overload, and cerberus leader >>>>>>>>>slam power for her)? I think you just have a negative stigma about the power from the first and WANT to hate it.  Also recharge > stun evolution on him. Pull -> Slam is not worth bothering with. Much quicker to just use your or a squadmates biotic then have javik slam to detonate or just use javiks slam and shoot the enemy while its locked in the air.

No I do not hate Slam. I have no stigma towards it whatsoever. Just that on Javik, I think Pull is much better choice.

Let me try to explain my reasoning:
- On Javik, both Pull and Slam are instant-cast. 
- Both Pull and Slam will stagger protected enemies. 
- Both Pull and Slam are single-target abilities that can be upgraded to affect multiple targets in a radius.

So far, they do the same job. Now here is where I start to prefer Javik's Pull to Slam:

- Pull will keep enemies in the air for a set duration. Slam will lift enemies in the air before slamming them to the ground. This makes Pull better for setting up biotic explosions or shooting the helpless enemy.

- Slam can detonate biotic explosions whereas Pull cannot. However: 
 a. The three biotics classes (Adept, Vanguard, and Sentinel) can already detonate biotic explosions.
 b. The three other classes (Soldier, Engineer, and Infiltrator) will need Dark Channel or Reave (or possibly Stasis) to set up biotic explosions with Javik's Slam. Dark Channel seems like such an odd choice--not a bad choice, just an odd choice-- as a bonus power for those classes. That leaves Reave. Reave can both set up and detonate biotic explosions; so since it can detonate, Pull does the same setup job as Slam only better.
     And I would argue that non-biotic bonus powers are better for those classes unless you specifically want a biotic bonus power so you can explode with both Liara and Javik. And Slam may be the best biotic bonus power for those classes anyway, although that is certainly debatable.

- Pull has a quicker cooldown. You mentioned a 5 second cooldown for Slam. Pull has a quicker cooldown and can be as low as 3-4 seconds on Javik. That means you can use it more often than Slam, perfect for Adepts and Sentinels that use Throw.

Slam already lifts them up for a good window then hurts them, usually killing because they are already near death and keeps them out of the fight for a good while IF they do survive. Biotic explosions are a powerful bonus but by no means do you have to build a team around that. Pull on him is just obsolete. A 1 second lower cooldown means nothing when you just get much more from slam.

[capn233]

I don't think in the end you really get much more mileage out of Slam. Combos are really the king in SP (and mostly in MP). Slam by itself isn't going to deal damage across multiple enemies, and the damage does not scale with difficulty like combo damage does.

Slam is a fun power though, I did run it on my Vanguard. I have had Javik spec'd into it as well. However, I prefer spending on Pull and Dark Channel and importantly Grenades (this should not be skipped). I would rather put the rest into his passive rather than Slam.

[RedCaesar97]

Drayce333 wrote...

Slam already lifts them up for a good window then hurts them, usually killing because they are already near death and keeps them out of the fight for a good while IF they do survive. Biotic explosions are a powerful bonus but by no means do you have to build a team around that. Pull on him is just obsolete. A 1 second lower cooldown means nothing when you just get much more from slam.

So if you are using Slam as a "The enemy is almost dead and I want Javik to kill it" then sure, Slam can do the job just fine. Pull rank 5 Damage over Time evolution could possibly do the same thing but Slam can do it from the start. So sure, if you use it that way then Slam is better than Pull.

Pull on  Javik is far from obsolete, and you do not get more from Slam. Also, define "a good window" for the lift duration of Slam. Pull lifts them for a much greater duration which makes enemies easier to shoot or combo. 

[Drayce333]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Drayce333 wrote...

Slam already lifts them up for a good window then hurts them, usually killing because they are already near death and keeps them out of the fight for a good while IF they do survive. Biotic explosions are a powerful bonus but by no means do you have to build a team around that. Pull on him is just obsolete. A 1 second lower cooldown means nothing when you just get much more from slam.

So if you are using Slam as a "The enemy is almost dead and I want Javik to kill it" then sure, Slam can do the job just fine. Pull rank 5 Damage over Time evolution could possibly do the same thing but Slam can do it from the start. So sure, if you use it that way then Slam is better than Pull.

Pull on  Javik is far from obsolete, and you do not get more from Slam. Also, define "a good window" for the lift duration of Slam. Pull lifts them for a much greater duration which makes enemies easier to shoot or combo. 

A good window is long enough for you to pull out your gun and shoot them so they die. R5 pull is only 20 damage lol, thats nothing. And there is no "The enemy is almost dead and I want Javik to kill it" idea, just have him use slam mindlessly and you win, its that good. If you're using pull then they just float in the air 5 seconds. You can combo them or shoot yea, but you can already do that with slam so why even bother with pull.

You can also detonate biotic AND fire explosions with slam....

[RedCaesar97]

Drayce333 wrote...

A good window is long enough for you to pull out your gun and shoot them so they die. R5 pull is only 20 damage lol, thats nothing. And there is no "The enemy is almost dead and I want Javik to kill it" idea, just have him use slam mindlessly and you win, its that good. If you're using pull then they just float in the air 5 seconds. You can combo them or shoot yea, but you can already do that with slam so why even bother with pull.

You can also detonate biotic AND fire explosions with slam....

It is 20 damage per second, but I think that is base damage. I think that can increase through damage bonuses. I never use that evolution myself.

If you are looking to shoot them while enemies are lifted, then Pull is better. as you have a longer window. Pull rank 5 Expose evolution makes the enemy take +25% more damage from all sources which makes it easier to kill them.

I will agree that Slam can detonate combos whereas Pull cannot. 

[JediMindTrix]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

I would not bother speccing Javik into Slam since his Pull is better, unless you found a way (through modding or editing the coalesced.bin file) to remove points from Dark Channel.

Otherwise (and I cannot remember which order they go in), you probably want Radius, Combo damage, Stun.

Can't you just use the Med Bay Point Respec?

[Drayce333]

NineCoronas2021 wrote...

RedCaesar97 wrote...

I would not bother speccing Javik into Slam since his Pull is better, unless you found a way (through modding or editing the coalesced.bin file) to remove points from Dark Channel.

Otherwise (and I cannot remember which order they go in), you probably want Radius, Combo damage, Stun.

Can't you just use the Med Bay Point Respec?

You can't respec javik, they overlooked him.

I just don't see the point in pull, why not just shoot during the lift window of slam and have slam finish the enemy off. Or better yet have someone burn it or biotic prime it then combo it for a explosion. Cooldown is exactly the same as pull, It gets as low as 4 seconds.

[All-a-Mort]

The only reason I use Slam on javik or myself is for the amusement factor of the Cryo + Slam = BOUNCE! thing. It seems to break the physics engine or something. Quite entertaining with Garrus and Krysae as well as he tries shooting the mook sailing upwards like he's a clay pigeon.