32 réponses à ce sujet

[Fredward]

Spoilers from Asunder ahoy!



In Asunder we see Tranquility fixed/cured/whatever with Pharamond, who then becomes rilly, rilly emotional but whatever. Better than being a soulless automaton. BUT Pharamond is not really what I wanna see discussed. There's this one Tranquil we see in the White Spire when Rhys and co (at least I think that was when, my memories of the book are getting hazy) are sneaking about and they all expect the Tranquil to raise the alarm and they're all getting ready to kill him/her but he/she doesn't raise the alarm and basically explains that while the Tranquil do not have EMOTIONS they still have reasoning and I dunno... goals? Wants?

Does this mean the Tranquil WANT to secede from the Chantry? That they want to go back to normal? That they want the mages to succeed? So many questions. And they bother me. Because as purely logical beings shouldn't the Tranquil be against conflict simply because there is a higher chance they might wind up splattered against a wall that way? Or maybe AS purely logical beings they have come to the conclusion that having emotion is superior to not having it? When you questioned Owain on this there almost seemed to be an element of him trying to convince himself there.

So anyway, do you think the Tranquil will be playing a role in DAI? If so what and on who's side? Or will they just stand on street corners and advertise amazingly thorough cleaning services as their new means of existence?

Modifié par Foopydoopydoo, 13 novembre 2012 - 07:37 .

[Reznore57]

I noticed this tranquil too.
It's strange , but I'm not sure they have 0 emotions ,the way Pharamond explains it , it's more like being stuck in a nightmare ,like they 're somewhat removed from the world.

I'd like to see them in DA3 , because their condition is fade related .
I'm very curious why elf , and humans can be made tranquils while dwarves that are cut from the fade (they do not dream ) have no problems.

And there's also the question about curing Tranquils , it's possible now and I can see the mages doing it , just to reclaim their freedom and show templars that they can't be tamed.
I'm not sure it would be a very good idea , seeing Pharamond's state , it's like a happy meal for demons.

Mostly I think free mages will want to reclaim and cure Tranquil just to prove a point .
Templars might want to keep some , to spite the mages .

[DreGregoire]

I think it depends on the individual Tranquil and how their experiences influence their view (non-emotional) point.

About the lack of feeling part of being tranquil, I replayed the Karl part of DA2 and he explains the loss very well.

Edit: Oh and you need to put the spoiler for Asunder warning in your title.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 13 novembre 2012 - 06:23 .

[vortex216]

Tranquil don't have emotions and probably don't have any desires. They, do however listen to reason and do what is bestl for themselves and others. Following the rules of the circle and enchanting is logical. It doesn't cause any conflict and makes money. When the mages were being massacred and imprisoned, helping a group to try to fix it is the most logical.

[Fredward]

DreGregoire wrote...
Edit: Oh and you need to put the spoiler for Asunder warning in your title.

Thanks, I fixed it. xp

[Swagger7]

I thought that bit was interesting as well, and I hope they go into further detail in DA3. Perhaps we'll have a Tranquil companion that can be "Fixed"?

[HighMoon]

Yes, a tranquil companion would indeed be interesting (well, at least after they are "fixed". Before that they would probably make me yawn a lot).

[HighMoon]

But then that wouldn't make them "Tranquil" at all. Ignore above post... Sigh.

Modifié par Golden-Rose, 14 novembre 2012 - 04:53 .

[Face of Evil]

Even though the Tranquil are emotionless, they still have a sense of self-preservation. Compliance with the Chantry is necessary to survive. Similarly, the Tranquil in the White Spire does not raise the alarm because doing so could bring harm to herself.

[MilaBanilla]

Golden-Rose wrote...

Yes, a tranquil companion would indeed be interesting (well, at least after they are "fixed". Before that they would probably make me yawn a lot).

I was going to ask if Tranquils can even fight before seeing the fix part 
It would be quite an odd sight seeing a Tranquil that hasn't regain their emotions..fighting...with a blank stare.
"You will perish under the order of the Inquisitor, spider ."


Anyways, they will probably play a role but not sure how much. My thoughts, they will probably side with the Order or stay neutral. They lack emotion and just follow orders. They will choose the side that keeps them alive haha 

[DarthLaxian]

bah the tranquil...they are poor people (sorry, i'd rather be dead then not have emotions - and, as a mage - no magic anymore...because loosing both is akin to replacing my brain with a computer that has a self-preservation code installed while at the same time say loosing a limb or two)

as for wanting to secede from the chantry?

well some might (they may not have emotions/magic anymore, but they surely remember their live before tranquility and so might still have some of the same goals? some might think mages can research a cure (we now know they can) and might want to be restored to their full self!)

greetings LAX

[Fredward]

I found the piece about the Tranquil there's like a page and I don't feel like typing it over buuuuut:

The woman tilted her curiously, as if the answer should be obvious. "Obedience is prudent. To interpret it as a lack of free will would be an error." She turned to leave, and then paused. "Good luck, Knight-Captain." And with that she walked away into the shadows.

She also asked them if they were planning on hurting anyone the answer was "only if we have to" and she informed them that Lambert had gone off to the Divine.

On a unrelated note I see no reason why a Tranquil would be bad at fighting. You don't need to be angry to kill people, in fact I could see the pro's in being a cold, calculating killing machine. No panic, anger or doubt to cloud the decision on where to plant your pointy ended dagger. Of course they'd still have to WANT to fight. xp

Modifié par Foopydoopydoo, 14 novembre 2012 - 08:34 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

vortex216 wrote...
Tranquil don't have emotions and probably don't have any desires.  

Desires is IMO not quite the right way of putting it.  We get from Owain in DA:O that the Tranquil do still have priorities like normal people--self-preservation, physical well-being, safety, doing good, etc.  

What they probably don't have are the emotions attached to these things.  Tranquil don't want to die--they want to live.  But there's no fear, desperation, or whatever a normal person might experience tied to those.  They want to be productive--that doesn't come with the usual emotions of pride or accomplishment.

[KainD]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

self-preservation, physical well-being, safety, doing good, etc.  

Those are priorities of an animal, in other words Tranquils are no different from animals. 

This is my opinion, but what makes people really different from animals ( and not all people are like this ) is that they are not a part of nature, they have their own emotions and desires, and they don't live only for survival and reproduction. People can die for ideas, which nature wise wouldn't make sense at all and people can dedicate their lives to things that wouldn't make sense from nature perspective. 

Taking that away makes one basically an animal. You can make tranquil do things just as you can make your pet to do something. 

[Swagger7]

KainD wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

self-preservation, physical well-being, safety, doing good, etc.  

Those are priorities of an animal, in other words Tranquils are no different from animals. 

This is my opinion, but what makes people really different from animals ( and not all people are like this ) is that they are not a part of nature, they have their own emotions and desires, and they don't live only for survival and reproduction. People can die for ideas, which nature wise wouldn't make sense at all and people can dedicate their lives to things that wouldn't make sense from nature perspective. 

Taking that away makes one basically an animal. You can make tranquil do things just as you can make your pet to do something. 

Sorry, but people are animals.  Deal with it.

You didn't even pick the most unique feature of humans.  There are many more species that show strong signs of emotion than there are with tool using intelligence.

Read these:
http://en.wikipedia....tion_in_animals
http://en.wikipedia....uism_in_animals

Modifié par Swagger7, 14 novembre 2012 - 11:11 .

[KainD]

Swagger7 wrote...

Sorry, but people are animals.  Deal with it.

What in your opinion makes animal an animal, and why do you think humans fit the bil?

[Reznore57]

Yeah animals have emotions , pretty obvious if you ever had a cat or a dog.
They can be scared , happy, etc...
But they are not self aware (well most animals ain't)

It's hard picturing something alive who doesn't have any emotions.
Maybe people who take heavy medication for mental problem , it's not that they don't feel anything but the emotion are washed away by chemicals.

I imagine the tranquil to be a bit like this ,i can't imagine them having a lot of motivation though.
Most of them stays in circles (they're free they can go anywhere , they can get married , have a shop whatever..)I suppose because it's familliar .

I don't think as individuals they can play a massive role in DA3 ,but i can imagine them being used as puppet for templars/mages agenda.

Cured tranquils are another story , it seems it's a deeply traumatic experience .
I think it would be super interesting ro see how mages and templars deals with such cases.
For templars , now there's no way to deny that tranquility is indeed really cruel (and not merciful).
And for mages , they will have to choose to use the cure or not , and how to deal with mages that aren't strong enough to face demons or control their powers.

[vortex216]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

vortex216 wrote...
Tranquil don't have emotions and probably don't have any desires.  

Desires is IMO not quite the right way of putting it.  We get from Owain in DA:O that the Tranquil do still have priorities like normal people--self-preservation, physical well-being, safety, doing good, etc.  

What they probably don't have are the emotions attached to these things.  Tranquil don't want to die--they want to live.  But there's no fear, desperation, or whatever a normal person might experience tied to those.  They want to be productive--that doesn't come with the usual emotions of pride or accomplishment.

yes, i used desires for a lack of a better word.

[Swagger7]

KainD wrote...

Swagger7 wrote...

Sorry, but people are animals.  Deal with it.

What in your opinion makes animal an animal, and why do you think humans fit the bil?

Animals are any creatures that belong to the Kingdom Animalia:
http://en.wikipedia....ingdom_Animalia

Here's the most important bit if you don't want to read a lot:

"Animals have several characteristics that set them apart from other living things. Animals are eukaryotic and mostly multicellular,[4] which separates them from bacteria and most protists. They are heterotrophic,[5] generally digesting food in an internal chamber, which separates them from plants and algae.[6] They are also distinguished from plants, algae, and fungi by lacking rigid cell walls.[7] All animals are motile,[8] if only at certain life stages. In most animals, embryos pass through a blastula stage,[9] which is a characteristic exclusive to animals."

Humans fit all those characteristics, just like our evolutionary ancestors have for over 600 million years (first fossils of animals).  I doubt that you'd argue any of them weren't animals.  We don't suddenly lose the distinction because we developed the ability to think about it.

[Wifflebottom]

KainD wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

self-preservation, physical well-being, safety, doing good, etc.  

Those are priorities of an animal, in other words Tranquils are no different from animals. 

This is my opinion, but what makes people really different from animals ( and not all people are like this ) is that they are not a part of nature, they have their own emotions and desires, and they don't live only for survival and reproduction. People can die for ideas, which nature wise wouldn't make sense at all and people can dedicate their lives to things that wouldn't make sense from nature perspective. 

Taking that away makes one basically an animal. You can make tranquil do things just as you can make your pet to do something. 

A dog pulling a child out of a flaming building and then dying from burns makes no sense, the dog died for it's bond with the child. People are animals and animals do not all act solely on the instinct of self-preservation.

[Heimdall]

Reznore57 wrote...

I'd like to see them in DA3 , because their condition is fade related .
I'm very curious why elf , and humans can be made tranquils while dwarves that are cut from the fade (they do not dream ) have no problems.

Dwarves aren't cut from the fade.  Their connection is just extremely weak.  That's why they are resistant to lyrium but, should it get into their body, it still effects them.  Tranquil are entirely immune.  Nobody has ever made a Dwarf tranquil because it is only used on mages. Which they lack.

[Todd23]

Wifflebottom wrote...

KainD wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

self-preservation, physical well-being, safety, doing good, etc.  

Those are priorities of an animal, in other words Tranquils are no different from animals. 

This is my opinion, but what makes people really different from animals ( and not all people are like this ) is that they are not a part of nature, they have their own emotions and desires, and they don't live only for survival and reproduction. People can die for ideas, which nature wise wouldn't make sense at all and people can dedicate their lives to things that wouldn't make sense from nature perspective. 

Taking that away makes one basically an animal. You can make tranquil do things just as you can make your pet to do something. 

A dog pulling a child out of a flaming building and then dying from burns makes no sense, the dog died for it's bond with the child. People are animals and animals do not all act solely on the instinct of self-preservation.

That instinct comes from the need to preserve it's genes.  It's where self-sacrifice comes from.  If a child is going to die, the mother and/or father will die to save it.  Unfortunatly dogs have been domesticated and breed for so long with humans, that they've evolved with humans and some of their traits are purely to suit human needs.  Sadly, many of them even need a human's love.

[Vit246]

Tranquil are suppose to obey the Chantry in all things and have no free will.

[DreGregoire]

Vit246 wrote...

Tranquil are suppose to obey the Chantry in all things and have no free will.

I'm not so sure that creed would survive during the war. At the end of DAII, the mages have rebelled and many templars have abandoned the Chantry to hunt mages. (I think that's what I remember the ending of DA2 saying)

I'm not really sure where that leaves the tranquil, but certainly many of them have skills that would get them positions outside of the chantry. Enchanting, bookkeeping, maybe even teaching. It's a-lot to think about.


@the topic,
I think the chance of the brand making them tranquil being reversed is amazing. I can't help but think that different tranquil may look at the option of reversing the process differently. Certainly tranquil who were forced to become tranquil would think differently than tranquil who voluntarily became tranquil.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 14 novembre 2012 - 09:42 .

[Reznore57]

IMHO I think the cure will be a big problem and not a solution.
The only good thing is the rite is now obselete.
If the mages start curing the tranquil , i think it's gonna be a mess.
The first ever cured end up begging to be killed ,too much trauma.
On top of that , tranquility was performed for a reason...Mage who tried blood magic , mages who couldn't control their power , couldn't resist demons.
Sure some like Kark have been made tranquil for very shady reasons.
But mostly you'll end up with a bunch of deeply traumatized mages who can't properly handle their power.
That's really really bad.