175 réponses à ce sujet

[megabeast37215]

Uh Cold wrote...

i no liek et

You don't like the Particle Rifle either.... weirdo....

I bet you'd like both of them if they synergized better with Cryo ammo....

[upinya slayin]

rymoulton wrote...

@Slayin you might make a more convincing argument if you added video instead of that screenshot. Both Slim and Gollum love it and I would agree under the proper conditions it can be very good.

My biggest complaint with it though is the regenerating ammo. Overheating it has a big penalty, and the time it takes to regenerate the ammo without overheating is still longer than it takes to reload other smgs. Would much rather refill it at the ammo crates that are everywhere or use one of my 255 ammo packs.

Lol i wasn't recording cause i dind't plan for this. One player was drunk, we were all tired as hell and just going for like 1-2 more games for the night. i wanted to do my CSMG challenge since i've loved it from day 1 and passed the 200k challenge for teh DLC with it in the 1st day it was out but they didn't have it in the SMG list yet and i got the 75 kill medal with it and figured i'd post it for all the people who think it sucks. I'd be down to get with gollum, slim, and 1 more CSMG lvoer and do an all CSMG gold  or platinum run and record it

[Parallax Demon]

Just done the challenge for it today, and for me it was the worst gun I ever used in a game.
Mayby it's because I only have it at lvl 2 and used it on a Volus Engineer, but without consumables it takes ages to kill a simple Collector Trooper on Bronze.

You constantly have to watch out you don't run out of bullets, because of the ridiculous long cooldown mechanic, and in the mean time your fellow PUG'er will kill with a weapon that actually does damage.

Now working on the Locust challenge, and even that weapon is way better than the Collector SMG Imo.

Really don't know what the problem with SMG's is in this game, as I really don't like any of them, while all I use in Borderlands 2 are SMG's.

Modifié par Parallax Demon, 13 novembre 2012 - 09:18 .

[UnknownMercenary]

At X, I find it tough to use as a primary weapon without SMG rail amp 3. Good thing I have so many.

[CitizenThom]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

I don't have it... So it sucks.
/Thread

I have the Javellin (2) now, but still don't have the Collector SMG.

[Ashen One]

upinya slayin wrote...

I don't ever agree with the less effective argument cause as you said (and i agree) the difference between a 200% cooldown and a 140-160% cooldown isn't a big in game difference so theortically you hsold use a harrier or wraith for eevyr class since it still gets you in the nice cooldown range and pack the most punch out of every weapon.

A lot of that depends on the player and the class in question. I'd almost always take a Particle Rifle over the Harrier for any class most people would consider using the Harrier with because it does similar damage in overcharge mode but actually sustains it long enough to be worth the drawback unlike the Harrier.

If I'm going to deviate from what I know is effective, the alternative is going to be competitive with what has been proven to be effective. You could argue that using a Piranha or Claymore with a GI is the most effective way to play the class, but using something like a Javelin offers a bunch of other advantages that make it worth deviating from the standard 4/6/6/6/4 shotgun builds a lot of people run these days.

When looking to equip a weapon I ask myself "what can this weapon do that no other weapon can?" in the role of a primary weapon, the CSMG is outclassed in every way. If the reason you're deciding to use it is because you're tired of using the Wraith and the Harrier regardless of the fact that they are better, then that only proves my point. As a sidearm, it actually has a use.

upinya slayin wrote...

I never said it would compete with a talon, wriath, etc. By desighn SMGs aren't mean to do the damage of heavy pistols, ARs, SRs etc. they are meant ot be light wieght, rapid fire weapons capable of decent damage but better used with powers.

Those are qualities befitting of a good sidearm, not a primary weapon.

The CSMG is useful when it's being used to compensate for the weaknesses of your primary weapon (for example, the Piranha's ****** poor accuracy at anything outside of melee range) but for the player who wants to be as effective as possible (or at least still be pretty damn effective when deviating from what has been proven to actually work) there is no reason to use it over an Indra, Talon, Wraith, ect.. in the primary weapon slot.

[Stardusk]

The CSMG is garbage at low levels, decent as higher levels and quite good at X. No other UR makes such a transition from utter crap to goodness like it does. Mechanics of the weapon.

[Feneckus]

Ashen Earth wrote...

If the weapon is less effective than one of the alternatives, then making the choice to use it is making the choice to gimp your own effectiveness. 

Then why choose anything other than a Claymore/Javelin GI ?

[Relix28]

Just because you can make it work and/or are enjoying the weapon, doesn't mean its good.

My issue with it, is that it doesn't pack enough punch to be a good primary weapon, and it doesn't bring anything new or useful to the table to justify taking it over the Hurricane/Talon/Scorpion/Acolyte as a sidearm. Sure, it has self-regenerating ammo, but that isn't much of a bonus when you have ammo boxes and ammo packs. Plus, more often than not, I find the self-regen system to be more of a hinderance than an actual advantage.

In other words, it doesn't have the DPS to be a good primary weapon, and it doesnt have any particularly useful advantages to be a competitive sidearm.

[Omnifarious Nef]

Dung beetles think poo is awesome too. Doesn't mean everyone else does.

[Ashen One]

Feneckus wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

If the weapon is less effective than one of the alternatives, then making the choice to use it is making the choice to gimp your own effectiveness. 

Then why choose anything other than a Claymore/Javelin GI ?

Other classes/weapons have strengths that the GI/Claymore/Javelin don't.

I like all of the classes, so I don't ask myself "why would I play class A over class B" because I play them all. When I decide on which class I want to play, I'll come up with a build/loadout and then ask myself "why would I use build A over build B"

[Feneckus]

Relix28 wrote...

My issue with it, is that it doesn't pack enough punch to be a good primary weapon

I disagree. For example, on a female quarian engineer, a Harrier X is barely better than a CSMG X. It might the best gun in the game when it comes to applying ammo effects. And the time you would have spent going to an ammo box is time you can spend killing stuff.

[Tankcommander]

Jack Crapper wrote...

The CSMG is super accurate and has virtually no recoil. You get headshots easily with that gun, moreso than any other SMG we currently have (it is even more accurate than the Locust).

Not only this, but it also has the armor damage multiplier and applies ammo effects superbly.

But by all means, buff it all you want. I really wouldn't mind more ammo or more damage. I personally feel it is great as is.

You forget about the GPSMG (most accurate, perfect precision), but other than that, no other SMG tops it. I agree with you, the armor modifier is nice, and the ammo recharges pretty quickly. I really do love the new Locust tho. For once I have to really think about if I want my GPSMG or if I want the Locust or CSMG.

[Invader Nemesis]

upinya slayin wrote...

LadyNemsis21 wrote...

Yours is at a 10 right? Mine is still at a 2....not saying its bad. Totally agree with you but a two...its meh okay...

noooo. what kind of DB has it at X?

Try it with magazine and AP mods on a caster. you'll love it

What kind of noob do you think I am Slayin! Jeez!


  Use it on my Valkyrie, QME and Drell Adept. Its challenging to use at first but I've gotten pretty good about not using up all the ammo. But I still run to the ammo box on occasion out of habit.

[upinya slayin]

Ashen Earth wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

I don't ever agree with the less effective argument cause as you said (and i agree) the difference between a 200% cooldown and a 140-160% cooldown isn't a big in game difference so theortically you hsold use a harrier or wraith for eevyr class since it still gets you in the nice cooldown range and pack the most punch out of every weapon.

A lot of that depends on the player and the class in question. I'd almost always take a Particle Rifle over the Harrier for any class most people would consider using the Harrier with because it does similar damage in overcharge mode but actually sustains it long enough to be worth the drawback unlike the Harrier.

If I'm going to deviate from what I know is effective, the alternative is going to be competitive with what has been proven to be effective. You could argue that using a Piranha or Claymore with a GI is the most effective way to play the class, but using something like a Javelin offers a bunch of other advantages that make it worth deviating from the standard 4/6/6/6/4 shotgun builds a lot of people run these days.

When looking to equip a weapon I ask myself "what can this weapon do that no other weapon can?" in the role of a primary weapon, the CSMG is outclassed in every way. If the reason you're deciding to use it is because you're tired of using the Wraith and the Harrier regardless of the fact that they are better, then that only proves my point. As a sidearm, it actually has a use.

One can make the argument that the javelin is outclassed in every way as well as a BW can do more damage in 2 of its 3 shots then the javelin does in its 1. even with reload canceling it can't perform as good as a BW. doens't mean tis not worth using as a primary weapon. I do get you point that its ncie to do different things. i mean after 700+ hours of playing it, you need variety to not be bored.

Personally i find teh GI most effective with a hurricane. I even prefer the talon to the pirhanna now as well.

Ashen Earth wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

I never said it would compete with a talon, wriath, etc. By desighn SMGs aren't mean to do the damage of heavy pistols, ARs, SRs etc. they are meant ot be light wieght, rapid fire weapons capable of decent damage but better used with powers.

Those are qualities befitting of a good sidearm, not a primary weapon.

The CSMG is useful when it's being used to compensate for the weaknesses of your primary weapon (for example, the Piranha's ****** poor accuracy at anything outside of melee range) but for the player who wants to be as effective as possible (or at least still be pretty damn effective when deviating from what has been proven to actually work) there is no reason to use it over an Indra, Talon, Wraith, ect.. in the primary weapon slot.

We are agred its an awesome sidearm. I know its not the best Primary weapon, but I could argue it does outclass every non UR AR in the game (which i think it does personally) every non promotional SMG (which i think it does) the eagle (which i think it does) as a primary weapon. its not the weapon that the talon, PPR, harrier, most shotgunes, etc is. but i think its better then pretty much every rare non shotgun in the game again its my opinon, not fact. And not everyone had high level URs either so alot of people use things like a GPSMG or carnifex, or CAR, or Pheaston, etc and i'd take teh CSMG as a primary over thsoe anyday

[Ashen One]

Feneckus wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

My issue with it, is that it doesn't pack enough punch to be a good primary weapon

I disagree. For example, on a female quarian engineer, a Harrier X is barely better than a CSMG X. It might the best gun in the game when it comes to applying ammo effects. And the time you would have spent going to an ammo box is time you can spend killing stuff.

A Wraith will generally apply ammo effects with one shot, but it actually does enough damage to warrant using it as a primary weapon with something like an Acolyte, Scorpion, ect.. as a secondary. It has none of the ammo issues that the Harrier has, and is superior to the CSMG at applying ammo effects

Using the reasons you listed, why would someone playing a QE use a CSMG as a primary weapon over a Wraith? Is the regenerating ammo worth the loss in damage?

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 13 novembre 2012 - 10:04 .

[Relix28]

Feneckus wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

My issue with it, is that it doesn't pack enough punch to be a good primary weapon

I disagree. For example, on a female quarian engineer, a Harrier X is barely better than a CSMG X. It might the best gun in the game when it comes to applying ammo effects. And the time you would have spent going to an ammo box is time you can spend killing stuff.

Could you elaborate?

Feneckus wrote...
And the time you would have spent going to an ammo box is time you can spend killing stuff.

Or, you know, the time you spent waiting for your ammo regen (non-overheat), you could have killed a whole spawn and then went to the ammo box.

[upinya slayin]

LadyNemsis21 wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

LadyNemsis21 wrote...

Yours is at a 10 right? Mine is still at a 2....not saying its bad. Totally agree with you but a two...its meh okay...

noooo. what kind of DB has it at X?

Try it with magazine and AP mods on a caster. you'll love it

What kind of noob do you think I am Slayin! Jeez!


  Use it on my Valkyrie, QME and Drell Adept. Its challenging to use at first but I've gotten pretty good about not using up all the ammo. But I still run to the ammo box on occasion out of habit.

the funniest thing with the DLC is watching people (i'e done it to) try to grab ammo form the basement where teh box used to be while passing by.

Also lets assassinate all things tonight! i wanna get ripper in a party while he plays COD to hear him rage lol

[upinya slayin]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Relix28 wrote...

My issue with it, is that it doesn't pack enough punch to be a good primary weapon

I disagree. For example, on a female quarian engineer, a Harrier X is barely better than a CSMG X. It might the best gun in the game when it comes to applying ammo effects. And the time you would have spent going to an ammo box is time you can spend killing stuff.

A Wraith will generally apply ammo effects with one shot, but it actually does enough damage to warrant using it as a primary weapon with something like an Acolyte, Scorpion, ect.. as a secondary. It has none of the ammo issues that the Harrier has, and is superior to the CSMG at applying ammo effects

Using the reasons you listed, why would someone use a CSMG as a primary weapon over a Wraith? Is the regenerating ammo worth the loss in damage?

the wraith also kills every non boss in 1 shot lol. doens't need to apply an effect when everything you target is dead

I <3 Wraith

[DarkAbsolution]

I've been saying that the CSMG is awesome for a while now.  Turian Sentinel for me (stew675).  The other Sentinel was a Paladin, and the Soldier was a Destroyer.  The other two players are very good players.

Modifié par DarkAbsolution, 13 novembre 2012 - 10:10 .

[Ashen One]

upinya slayin wrote...

One can make the argument that the javelin is outclassed in every way as well as a BW can do more damage in 2 of its 3 shots then the javelin does in its 1. even with reload canceling it can't perform as good as a BW.

Anyone making that argument is probably retarded though. The Javelin can kill any non-boss enemy in the game with one shot, (including Phantoms/Pyros) which means you're not exposed as long as you would be using a BW. The Javelin has a built in thermal scope, and 4x as much innate cover penetration as the Black Widow.

The Black Widow's sustained DPS advantage only really matters when you're fighting boss enemies, because a Javelin will kill anything smaller in one shot. The Black Widow's sustained DPS advantage is even less significant when you factor in boss weak points. A Javelin can 2 shot kill a Banshee for example, and reliably stagger them out of their teleport cycles/interrupt instakills.

They both have advantages and disadvantages over one another, but for someone to say the BW outclasses the Javelin in every way is just.... lol

[Invader Nemesis]

upinya slayin wrote...

LadyNemsis21 wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

LadyNemsis21 wrote...

Yours is at a 10 right? Mine is still at a 2....not saying its bad. Totally agree with you but a two...its meh okay...

noooo. what kind of DB has it at X?

Try it with magazine and AP mods on a caster. you'll love it

What kind of noob do you think I am Slayin! Jeez!


  Use it on my Valkyrie, QME and Drell Adept. Its challenging to use at first but I've gotten pretty good about not using up all the ammo. But I still run to the ammo box on occasion out of habit.

the funniest thing with the DLC is watching people (i'e done it to) try to grab ammo form the basement where teh box used to be while passing by.

Also lets assassinate all things tonight! i wanna get ripper in a party while he plays COD to hear him rage lol

I still go to that spot on occassion Old habits die hard. I'll try to get on tonight but I'm sick so its a wait and see. Its so much fun assassinating you Slayin'.

[ASmoothCriminalx]

would a 161K geth/gold with the CSMG on the Destroyer make anyone reconsider this weapon?

I know, I know.. all the damage probably came from my hawk ML or "X" weapon could have worked better..

[Feneckus]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Using the reasons you listed, why would someone playing a QE use a CSMG as a primary weapon over a Wraith? 

The CSMG has pretty much unlimited range. Against collectors for example, getting close is sometimes not an option because of scions, so a few pellets will miss. You can't miss with the CSMG, and you get 90% headshots.

[DarkAbsolution]

On the topic of using it as a Primary firearm, it can be done, and can work quite effectively with sufficient mods (Extended Clip, Extended Barrel, SMG Rail Amp III, AP IV), but I do agree that there are other better Primary weapons. That combination works best on classes that can strip shields and barrier quickly with powers (Overload or Energy Drain) followed up by headshots against mooks, or straight up highly (and surprisingly) effective armour damage dealing against bosses. Works great on the Turian Sentinal specced for 6/5/6/5/4 as I do/did in that match above, with Rank 5 Warp Expose to help boost it even more against armour.

It works great on power caster classes, and specced up to the max, can take down bosses like Scions and Praetorians more quickly than you'd think, and not that much slower than other more powerful weapons (excluding the true beasts, such as Javelin, Reegar, etc).