106 réponses à ce sujet

[tetracycloide]

Zecele wrote...

Sure it is but again we're not talking about feinting and manuevering. We're not even talking about luring one whole room of mobs into another room (a completely viable tactic).

We're talking about shooting a person and the person right next to him doesn't react at all.

The reason they don't react is because they don't see the player either because they lack line of sight or because the player is to far away to see (both a result of proper manuevering).  Similar tactics include drawing out foes by running in front of them, letting them chase behind for a while, and then using stealth to dissapear (feinting).

[knownastherat]

In no way I wanted to doubt Naked Fury or your abilities Zecele. Actually, I consider the "butt in corner and hack away" possibly (depending on situation) more efficient than luring.

My apologies to Naked Fury for taking his/her thread where s/he did not want it to go.

Modifié par knownastherat, 04 janvier 2010 - 11:50 .

[tetracycloide]

knownastherat wrote...

In no way I wanted to doubt Naked Fury or your abilities Zecele.

I do.  The post itself is the OP masterbating to their own exploits and abilities complete with a sanctimonious one liner about 'exploits' they don't employ as if it's beneath them.  This followed up with the patently synonymous tactics they do employ, pointing out the hypocrisy of the hypocritical being something of a passtime.  If it were just  a guide, as it claims to be, why would it need to include the OP preaching at the remainder of the forum?  If it were just a guide why would it need a disclaimer about the controversy the OP was sure their words would stir?  Make no mistake, there's a plethora of really useful information here but it is poorly served by being paired thus.

[Senno]

tetracycloide wrote...

knownastherat wrote...

In no way I wanted to doubt Naked Fury or your abilities Zecele.

I do.  The post itself is the OP masterbating to their own exploits and abilities complete with a sanctimonious one liner about 'exploits' they don't employ as if it's beneath them.  This followed up with the patently synonymous tactics they do employ, pointing out the hypocrisy of the hypocritical being something of a passtime.  If it were just  a guide, as it claims to be, why would it need to include the OP preaching at the remainder of the forum?  If it were just a guide why would it need a disclaimer about the controversy the OP was sure their words would stir?  Make no mistake, there's a plethora of really useful information here but it is poorly served by being paired thus.

You misspelled masterbating [sic].  Interestingly, the Urban Dictionary defines you (one who misspells masturbating) as a "Master of Bait", perhaps a "Master Baiter"?  Sniff, thought I smelled Troll. 

We have somewhat similar interests I suppose.  Pointing out the vanity of the vailglorious is my hobby.

[tetracycloide]

Senno wrote...

Pointing out the vanity of the vailglorious is my hobby.

Google chrome has a built in spell-checker that, unfortunately, does not function correctly with these forums.  The misspelled words are marked as such but right clicking, the normal interface to access a list of suggestions, produces some forum scripted box without them.  I guess what I'm saying is that you're actually pointing out is evidence of the impulsive.

I am vain too though.

[Naked Fury]

What would you think about a solo guide which says, "OK, next use the glitches to get free money and to duplicate Rose's Thorn, or open the console..." What's wrong with that, after all?

In the OP I am demarcating what I consider to be legitimate tactics. Why? Because it is more fun to solve problems within those boundaries.

So if you want to get two Rose's Thorns, if you want to give a thousand spring traps to the chick in Lothering, or if you want to take out a crowds one by one from a distance, then go ahead. I don't mind. Really, it doesn't bother me one bit. This guide isn't suited to your tastes.

What does sorta bother me is that I anticipated these flames in the OP where I politely asked that you take them to the appropriate place. Go have fun at this thread. You'll find all the same arguments that have just been mentioned here, but you are welcome to add your voice into the mix.

Modifié par Naked Fury, 05 janvier 2010 - 05:13 .

[stillnotking]

What's the point in arguing over what does or does not constitute a "cheap" tactic? This is a single player game. I am always insterested to see what different people consider "cheap", but their opinion doesn't affect me at all.

I am willing to bet that it is impossible to beat this game solo without using tactics or talents that someone would call "cheap" or overpowered. Kiting would be the best example: it is not possible to solo the ogre in Tower of Ishal without kiting him (or hiding behind the barrels). You will either get grabbed or chain-rammed at some point and you will die.

Basically it's a pointless argument, so please don't waste our time bringing it up.

[Naked Fury]

stillnotking wrote...

What's the point in arguing over what does or does not constitute a "cheap" tactic? This is a single player game. I am always insterested to see what different people consider "cheap", but their opinion doesn't affect me at all.

I am willing to bet that it is impossible to beat this game solo without using tactics or talents that someone would call "cheap" or overpowered. Kiting would be the best example: it is not possible to solo the ogre in Tower of Ishal without kiting him (or hiding behind the barrels). You will either get grabbed or chain-rammed at some point and you will die.

I haven't used the term cheap because it is so ambiguous. I would rather use legitimate verses illegitimate tactics, the definition of which is up for grabs.

Obviously I think kiting is legitimate in the ogre tower, because I can imagine a rogue actually doing that. Likewise, fighting with your back against a corner seems legit to me because I can imagine the tactic being effective "in real life." Again, the decision is arbitrary.

But whatever one decides about the demarcation between legitimate and illegitimate tactics, it is reasonable to expect illegitimate tactics to include anything which makes use of an obvious bug. That was the point of my last post. Whether or not luring is a bug is the subject of the other thread (here), not this one.

Modifié par Naked Fury, 05 janvier 2010 - 05:47 .

[knarayan]

41 Bosses killed?

I've done six playthroughs and never have crossed 30!

And I have the traveller achievement - so makes me wonder what I'm missing.

Nice guide - if a bit on the patronizing side.

[tetracycloide]

Naked Fury wrote...

What does sorta bother me is that I anticipated these flames in the OP where I politely asked that you take them to the appropriate place. Go have fun at this thread. You'll find all the same arguments that have just been mentioned here, but you are welcome to add your voice into the mix.

What bothers me about this plea is that it is so disingenuous.  If you knew your statements would elicit a specific reaction the proper thing to do, if your intent was not to elicit that reaction, was temper those statements.  Not preface them with proverbial 'no offense' tags.  This is a discussion forum, if you don't want others to discuss what you write then don't write it.  Even in this post and the one below you continue to conflate your arguments with altogether different ideas to advance your own point of view and follow them up quickly with a 'but please don't discuss it here.'  Stop bringing it up and people will stop discussing it and if they do not you'll have a legitimate gripe about it.

As a thought exercise on the subject 'Is it possible to solo nightmare as a rogue without pruning groups into bite size engagements.'  This thread is actually quite interesting.  I assume the late game fights against large groups of archers were a triviality at that point in gear and dexterity progression based on your discription of the fight with Ser Cauthrien.  I am wondering which random encounters you ran into early in the game, however, since I would imagine a solo rogue on nightmare without combat stealth would have a tough time against the wolf encounter, for example.  I am also curious what made you decide on the crow dagger as an off hand instead of other options that would have worked better for damage or other options that would have worked better for defense.  Obviously you wouldn't, as a dexterity rogue, need attack.  With low cunning armor penetration is just as good as a point in damage against an increasing array of foes, Thorn of the Dead Gods being the obvious choice for that stat.  Dead thaig striker would have added spellcasting interupts which would help against mages.  Attacking from the front without coup de grace so often certainly would have made the edge's +crit shine as well.  Defenseivly I imagine, given that you did the warden's keep early, the best combo would be starfang + rose's thorn for the dexterity bonuses.  I can imagine that this might have resulted in attack speed issues but on longer fights that wouldn't matter very much.  Or was all this balanced carefully against the maximization of the few backstabs you could get in when breaking from stealth against a high priority target?

Modifié par tetracycloide, 05 janvier 2010 - 03:21 .

[tmp7704]

Naked Fury wrote...

At level 21 my base damage is 32.8. Lethality brings it to 33.9, an increase of 1.1 damage. And this is the tail end of damage output. For a low-Cunning rogue, this is the talent you take when there's nothing left to take.

If you read my post, you'll note i was talking about the bonus to your crit chance, not the straight increase of damage per hit from Cunning. This is hidden bonus granted by Lethality, something you'll only notice when you mouse over the weapon damage to check your crit rate.

Roughly put, if the crit damage is 2x regular hit and base crit rate is ~10%, the character's overall damage output is: 0.9 + 0.1 * 2 = 110% of their "regular" damage. Now, if you get another 10% chance to crit from Lethality your overall damage output increases to: 0.8 + 0.2 * 2 = 120% of regular damage. Basically, the extra crit increases your overall damage by roughly 10% on top of the (minor) increase from Cunning)  This i figure would make quite a bit of difference especially in situations where --being the only character-- you spend more time fighting your enemies face to face rather than face to back.

Modifié par tmp7704, 06 janvier 2010 - 12:29 .

[tetracycloide]

With his listed gear crit damage is actually 2.1x regular hit so it's actually a little better than 10% overall. However, rose's thorn and the red jenny seekers aren't available for much of the game which would drop the crit damage mod down to 1.65 with a crow dagger alone.

[Haplose]

Naked Fury wrote...

ChaoticBroth wrote...
It all varies with playstyles and whatnot, but I took Riposte somewhat early. The main use of Riposte was to switch to a different target while under pressure, stun him, then switch back to my original target. Somewhat tedious, but it saved my hide in several situations.

I have Dueling and Momentum running 24/7. When you factor in fatigue, I need to be pretty high-level for Riposte to be useful. If I can just barely fit in a Dirty Fighting followed by a Riposte then, well, that's nice, but then my stamina is gone and I can't stun again for a long time. Since Riposte is 1.6 times more expensive, I end up wishing I didn't use it.

But when you have stamina to spare, Riposte is great.

Assasin's Feast of the Fallen would be of great help with your stamina issues - once you have Coup-de-Grace of course.
I'm also amazed you didn't pick Pinpoint Strikes. I guess this decision was also due to Stamina management?
It's a particurarly huge help against these shield-bearers who can't be flanked or otherwise backstab immune mobs and bosses.

I guess I would drop the entire Lethality line (the 10% crit and tiny damage increase just isn't worth 3 Talents, when you're tight) and get Feast of the Fallen and Pinpoint Strikes, if I were you.


Overall an amazing feat however! Congratulations on your accomplishment.

[Bikpik]

Just curious how you got the gold from the bribe, He told me to pick it up after the the caves, but i lost the note when i got arrested.

[Xolah]

I am useing the 360 and i was wondering what 6 skills should i have on my hot key? I dont need stealth because i could just hit left trigger or right trigger and use it there.

[Kelandria]

Thank you for your contribution to the Dragon Age: Origin community.  Your guide has been added to the "Guide Compilation for Dragon Age: Origins"

[Xolah]

I just noticed you didnt put any points in the combat tree so how did you use dragon bone weapons?

[tetracycloide]

I've seen scattershot resisted but not often. You don't loose the dexterity bonus to defense when stunned, it's not D&D rules, but your total defense is cut in half and I cannot imagine 85 defense is enough to survive long in the first encounter with her solo. I imagine it has a lot to do with combat stealth and luck.  Well, either that or using LoS on the archers.

Modifié par tetracycloide, 10 janvier 2010 - 01:18 .

[De Bartman]

started a dwarven noble rogue today. put all my points in dex and went on playing. Got stuck in the deep roads where the mercenaries jump you. My teammates are on hold and get killed FAST which leaves me in a 5 to 1 situation with one yellow boss where I get killed FAST.

How do you get past that with a lvl 1 character wih noble's armor and two daggers......

[tetracycloide]

My mistake. I haven't seen scattershot resisted I've just seen it say 'resisted' when they targeted a two-hand warrior running Indomitable. So it won't always stun everyone in the party, just everyone that's not a two-hand warrior.



I've never tested dexterity or defense in game with stuns I was just repeating something I had read elsewhere from a source I trusted. If you've tested this in game and it's inaccurate I'll defer to your tests until I do some of my own. Thanks for the correction.

[Xolah]

What i meant to say was how did you buy Momentum if you didn't have expert combat training.

[epeeist]

Interesting, thanks to OP for posting. I just saw this now, I'd already started a mostly solo rogue DW runthrough with no stealth (so far, anyway). The "mostly" is, roleplaying is still important to me and I can justify an alienage elf wanting to be self-sufficient, but at Ostagar and in the mage's tower (Wynne) I didn't think going fully solo was justified from a roleplaying point of view (and for a similar reason, having NPCs stand in place except in tactical situations doesn't "ring true" to me either, from a roleplaying view...).



As for what's "legitimate", it's in the eye of the beholder. This is a game, if someone wants to use a cheat to give extra gold (instead of making multiple potent lyrium potions [?] which can be sold at a profit), or make hundreds of traps in Lothering to exploit that bug, that's not my preference, but it's a game, have fun.



For that matter, an archer running away from a huge ogre while shooting arrows at it, or taking cover behind some barrels, strikes me as eminently sensible - and thus "realistic" - behaviour...