82 réponses à ce sujet

[Mozts]

I don't see 3 grenades in your video.

I'm losing my brains here. I have a Drell Adept for Force and Damage and Drellguard for Shrappnel. I saw this today...

[whalewhisker]

X-Frame wrote...

What are your thoughts on the Damage Combo evolution for the Cluster Grenades now that we know it does 100% additional damage to biotic primed targets (i.e. with Reave), not just lifted targets? Is the 2 additional grenades still worth it?

That's more of a question for Drell Adept than Vangaurd.

[Gamemako]

To everyone who posted about Cluster Grenades:

I may have been the victim of a bug that was giving me 3 grenades back in the day and never bothered to check whether it was still true. As of this writing, I'm only getting 2 grenades. So save your respec cards, turns out I was wrong.

[Relix28]

Gamemako wrote...

Jack Crapper wrote...

As far as I know, it increases the number of grenades thrown from 2 to 3.  Bounce it off the wall with both evos to see for sure.

See the 3 grenades I throw in that video? That's F&D evo. 3 is the base number of grenades thrown. You also throw 3 grenades with Shrapnel evo. In my testing, there is no other bonus when you toss the grenade (this was several months ago now that I tested) -- you just get the base damage. That is why I concluded that it must refer to max targets.

Just tested this (Xbox).

Speced my Clusters for F&D, Max Nades, F&D. I was throwing two grenades instead of three, like I would with Shrapnel.

So, either you were running with Shrapnel or this is a PC specific thing/bug. I would suggest you test it again.

EDIT: 

Modifié par Relix28, 14 novembre 2012 - 04:18 .

[Learn To Love Yourself]

Gamemako wrote...

To everyone who posted about Cluster Grenades:

I may have been the victim of a bug that was giving me 3 grenades back in the day and never bothered to check whether it was still true. As of this writing, I'm only getting 2 grenades. So save your respec cards, turns out I was wrong.

Thought I was losing my mind.  I was sure I tested this myself in the past.

Thanks for confirmation

[Kenadian]

SavagelyEpic wrote...

Kenadian, what I'm understanding from your post is that the shrapnel evo effectively increases damage at targets within very close range (Drelldept comes to mind) whereas the force and damage evo would be preferable on the Vanguard if you're using the grenades to engage at distances beyond what your shotgun can effectively do?

I haven't played either of my Drells in a while (or ME3 at all, for that matter) but is it even advisable to try to hit things with clusters at midrange? From what I recall they go anywhere and everywhere except where you need them to go (although I've only ever used the shrapnel evo).

No, that's not what I'm saying. I've always assumed that Shrapnel is what granted the 3 grenades.

[Gamemako]

X-Frame wrote...

What are your thoughts on the Damage Combo evolution for the Cluster Grenades now that we know it does 100% additional damage to biotic primed targets (i.e. with Reave), not just lifted targets? Is the 2 additional grenades still worth it?

Since it would only apply to effets delivered by others and since it would significantly harm your ability to spam grenades, I would have to say that it's not worthwhile. Max grenades is just better for a Drellguard. For a Drell Adept, you can make a good case for it (especially since you can afford grenade gear instead of shock trooper or warfighter).

Kenadian wrote...

No, that's not what I'm saying. I've always assumed that Shrapnel is what granted the 3 grenades.

Yeah, that's the way it is now. At some point, when last I tested, there was a bug that caused me to throw 3 grenades anyway. And I never noticed, in all this time, that it had changed.

[SavagelyEpic]

Kenadian wrote...

SavagelyEpic wrote...

Kenadian, what I'm understanding from your post is that the shrapnel evo effectively increases damage at targets within very close range (Drelldept comes to mind) whereas the force and damage evo would be preferable on the Vanguard if you're using the grenades to engage at distances beyond what your shotgun can effectively do?

I haven't played either of my Drells in a while (or ME3 at all, for that matter) but is it even advisable to try to hit things with clusters at midrange? From what I recall they go anywhere and everywhere except where you need them to go (although I've only ever used the shrapnel evo).

No, that's not what I'm saying. I've always assumed that Shrapnel is what granted the 3 grenades.

Right, but since shrapnel grants 3 and F&D grants 2 per throw, does that mean that with F&D your cluster 'spread' is going to be tighter at longer ranges, equating to a longer effective range with F&D as opposed to shrapnel?

Because otherwise I can't see the point in speccing into F&D ever.

[Gamemako]

SavagelyEpic wrote...

Right, but since shrapnel grants 3 and F&D grants 2 per throw, does that mean that with F&D your cluster 'spread' is going to be tighter at longer ranges, equating to a longer effective range with F&D as opposed to shrapnel?

This is going to require testing to know for sure. In a quick test, I had trouble hitting things with the 3, but that very well may be random error. Hard to say...

[UnicornsFolly]

The kind of thread I love to see, thanks. I will say, however, that I stick by the talon as viable, though I'll give the wraith a try - still on gold, however.

Thanks again.

[Mozts]

Since the Cluster Crisis is behind us, allow me to comment on your aim. Getting headshots on phantom like a boss. Precise and consistent reload cancel too.

Modifié par Mozts, 14 novembre 2012 - 04:29 .

[Gamemako]

Mozts wrote...

Since the Cluster Crisis is behind us, allow me to comment on your aim. Getting headshots on phantom like a boss. Precise and consistent reload cancel too.

Heh, thanks, but the best part here is that you hardly have to do anything -- the short reload duration with the low ejectshellcasingratio means that as long as you keep attacking, it practically reloads itself. I didn't use any medigel RC here -- it all just happens as you fight. Hit reload and punch, gun comes back locked and loaded. Empty the gun and then charge, and you'll land with a full clip. It's a nice function of the gun, and was part of the reason I used the Eviscerator a lot back when I didn't have better weapons. The Wraith is just an Eviscerator on steriods.

[PaganPoetry]

This is great! I just promoted my Vanguard class so I could respec my Drell because like you said, pull just isn't cutting it.

[JustinSonic]

I can play Gold with my Drell Vanguard no problem. He's my best character!

As for Platinum? I've only completed one successful match with him. All the others have been duds.

Interesting analysis though. For the most part, I agree with you. I can take care of Banshees/Brutes/other units no problem with my guy though

[MP-Ryan]

Out of curiosity, why a Wraith over the Talon? I was with you on everything else, but I found your choice of weapon curious. Not that the Wraith is bad, just that the Talon tends to be more versatile (also 200% damage to shield/barriers).

[Kushiel42]

Gamemako wrote...
Another popular choice is the N7 Piranha, which trades per-shot damage and accuracy for DPS. It is a good choice as well, but comes with the disadvantage of needing a smart choke to be practical (which costs either 25% weapon damage or 50% cooldown).

Why does it need a smart choke? You're right up in melee range of everything you'll be shooting at anyway.

Also, why shield recharge rather than Martial Artist in the Fitness tree, given how often you charge and heavy melee? I've got my specced the same way you do - and have the same thing on all my vanguards except my melee Krogan - but I'm never convinced that it makes sense, since I do a lot of charging with them all.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Talon X good choice?

[Gamemako]

MP-Ryan wrote...

Out of curiosity, why a Wraith over the Talon? I was with you on everything else, but I found your choice of weapon curious. Not that the Wraith is bad, just that the Talon tends to be more versatile (also 200% damage to shield/barriers).

Wraith gives me more room to fit in attacks between shots without hurting my DPS. You also get +12% weapon damage from Shock Trooper to go with the Wraith. Might also have greater stagger chance. Other than that, they're pretty similar in terms of DPS. Also, Talon is 150% against shields/barriers, not 200%.

I should probably edit in something about the Talon as well.

Kushiel42 wrote...

Why does it need a smart choke? You're right up in melee range of everything you'll be shooting at anyway.

Even point-blank is too far with no smart choke. It's so inaccurate that you need a smart choke for close-range combat. I've gone without a Smart Choke before, and I ultimately gave up and just let a Banshee sync kill me rather than go on.

Kushiel42 wrote...

Also, why shield recharge rather than Martial Artist in the Fitness tree, given how often you charge and heavy melee? I've got my specced the same way you do - and have the same thing on all my vanguards except my melee Krogan - but I'm never convinced that it makes sense, since I do a lot of charging with them all.

Only my Krogan and Batarian Vanguards spec Martial Artist instead of Shield Recharge. For Human, Asari, and Phoenix, I hardly ever use heavy melee. My Drell keeps shield recharge for faster regen in case I need another shieldgate proc when I'm moving areas (especially going for grenades). Even if I took MA, I rarely even get 10 melee kills over the match, and MA requires a kill to proc, so it just isn't worth it to me.

[Kushiel42]

Gamemako wrote...

Even point-blank is too far with no smart choke. It's so inaccurate that you need a smart choke for close-range combat. I've gone without a Smart Choke before, and I ultimately gave up and just let a Banshee sync kill me rather than go on.

Huh. Might just be because I learned to use the Pirahna without one, but I've never used choke on the gun and it's always worked wonders for me. YMMV, I guess.

Gamemako wrote...

Only my Krogan and Batarian Vanguards spec Martial Artist instead of Shield Recharge. For Human, Asari, and Phoenix, I hardly ever use heavy melee. My Drell keeps shield recharge for faster regen in case I need another shieldgate proc when I'm moving areas (especially going for grenades). Even if I took MA, I rarely even get 10 melee kills over the match, and MA requires a kill to proc, so it just isn't worth it to me.

Fair enough. Thinking back to the snippets of your vid that I watched, you weren't actually getting a lot of kills with melee rather than stuns, so that makes sense. Thanks.

[BjornDaDwarf]

Nice guide!

What about the Falcon as a weapon?  It was my go-to weapon for quite awhile on Gold with him.  Applies fire to an area incredibly well (an easily), so chaining multiple FEs in a row was pretty easy between charging and then grenades.

Modifié par BjornDaDwarf, 14 novembre 2012 - 06:06 .

[Shampoohorn]

Just took him for a nice offhost spin on gold: that's not something I ever bothered with before. Thanks for kicking me out of the barn.

Regarding 2v3 clusters and aim... I've never seen any improvement in targeting with either evolution. I think your best bet is the shrapnel evolution since it both maximizes the chance of actually hitting your target and spreads your crowd control over a wider area.

[Javo2357]

Great guide. Thanks for posting Gamemako.

[Gamemako]

Kushiel42 wrote...

Fair enough. Thinking back to the snippets of your vid that I watched, you weren't actually getting a lot of kills with melee rather than stuns, so that makes sense. Thanks.

Yeah, I really focus on getting utility out of it rather than kills. Without MA, I can't kill a husk with one punch (and I don't think I could do it with MA either), so I usually end up knocking the opponent over and then finishing them off with a shotgun shell. I still get a few melee kills, but not enough to make it worthwhile.

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

What about the Falcon as a weapon? It was my go-to weapon for quite awhile on Gold with him. Applies fire to an area incredibly well (an easily), so chaining multiple FEs in a row was pretty easy between charging and then grenades.

I personally don't think it's worth it. The weapon will help keep enemies locked down, but the damage it deals is negligible. It has the worst DPS in the game, even lower than the Acolyte against non-armored targets. It won't stagger larger opponents, and losing almost all of your weapon DPS there is... a lot to bite off. Of course, if you've had good success, then by all means, have at. However, I just don't know that it would be good advice to tell others to use a weapon with 1/4th the DPS of other options.

[Achire]

Cheers for the guide. I just can't seem to make him work on Platinum. Maybe this will help.

[BjornDaDwarf]

Gamemako wrote...

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

What about the Falcon as a weapon? It was my go-to weapon for quite awhile on Gold with him. Applies fire to an area incredibly well (an easily), so chaining multiple FEs in a row was pretty easy between charging and then grenades.

I personally don't think it's worth it. The weapon will help keep enemies locked down, but the damage it deals is negligible. It has the worst DPS in the game, even lower than the Acolyte against non-armored targets. It won't stagger larger opponents, and losing almost all of your weapon DPS there is... a lot to bite off. Of course, if you've had good success, then by all means, have at. However, I just don't know that it would be good advice to tell others to use a weapon with 1/4th the DPS of other options.

True, it's not much in the DPS department, but still works on Gold/Silver, where the ensuing explosions are enough to finish everything off.  I haven't tried any Vanguard besides a Kroguard on Plat, so didn't know if that would still be the case or not.