232 réponses à ce sujet

[Stenun]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

"Elite" players don't drop down to Silver because of difficulty, they drop down to complete 3 challenges faster. It's because of efficiency, not difficulty.

I understand that.

But I am saying that the reason they have to drop down is because the difficulty of Gold stops the easier enemies spawning.  And the reason the game does that, and doesn't simply just increase the toughness of the enemies but rather replaces standard enemies with harder enemies, is because they have made Gold too hard.

If people are dropping only for the Challenges, it's because the Challenges have highlighted one of the flaws in the difficulty of Gold and Platinum.  Not just tougher enemies but different quantities of enemies.

[Tarelgeth]

Try playing the difficulty you're comfortable with. There, problem solved.

Yes, they're serious. There are hard difficulties for good players that they want to give rewards for, and there are easier difficulties for everyone else. Where's the problem? That they want to encourage people to get better?

Some things have gotten harder. Powers and classes have gotten better, there are more weapon choices and more builds to outfit with to make things easier. Play easy until you get the gear to play hard. They've balanced things in the past, and they're going to keep balancing things in the future, and no amount of saying "Hey, this isn't the same thing that the last balance patch did" is going to stop them.

I don't think you're trolling. I just think you don't understand what playing a game is.

[BjornDaDwarf]

Stenun wrote...

BjornDaDwarf wrote... called them names, replied with sarcastic comments to legitimate critiques.

Examples, please.

As I originally quoted, you started this antagonistically, then egged it on with a sarcastic comment:

Stenun wrote...

Firstly, thanks to those who have demonstrated once again why it's so hard to have a proper discussion on
these forums. BSN never fails to disappointment in that respect.

This was in reply to a critique that, while rude, was apt.  Your original point (as you have admitted), didn't make any sense to a lot of posters, because you mixed two different things (difficulty and experience/challenges).  Your reply ignored his critique and attack him:

Stenun wrote...

Are you so dense that you have to question the intelligence of anyone whose opinion isn't precisely the same as yours?

Stenun wrote...

Vocal elite.  Elite.  SuperGamer.

All of which you used perjoratively, as in turning them into insulting names to demean and diminish those you view as your opposition.  You used them as insulting names to prove that anyone with those views have invalid opinions that don't matter to this discussion. 

Modifié par BjornDaDwarf, 14 novembre 2012 - 06:42 .

[soulstriker09]

Stenun wrote...
Apparently the Above Average players are dropping to Silver so they can find the easier enemies because it's too hard to just stick to Gold and do it there.

No, we're dropping to silver because it takes FOREVER to finish guardians or husks.
We're dropping to silver because this is what happens when you play Gold/Plat almost exclusively.

Modifié par soulstriker09, 14 novembre 2012 - 06:41 .

[Stenun]

I have made this point before in this thread but I would like to make it again to make sure people see me do so:

lightswitch wrote...

[Gold is] really not that hard, as long as the team sticks together and has good fundamentals (i.e., use cover, equips gear, understand how to effectively play their chosen class, uses decent weapons). Even if a player goes down, just three players can still pull through just by following these simple rules:

I pretty much agree.  I'd say it is hard but just the right amount of hard for my personal skill level.



But I am not just arguing for me.  I'm arguing for what I see in other players, too.  And what I see is that lots and lots of players have been driven away from Gold and Platinum over the last few months and now BioWare seem to be wondering why ...
I do accept that there might possibly be a dip based on people wanting to grind for the challenges but I see a larger downward trend, too.

[Star fury]

Most of good players I know drop to bronze(solo), or silver because of wave composition on gold+ and absurdly high number on husk/guardian challenges. They don't do it because gold+ is hard. When they get their banners, they come back. I'm not going to grind any banner cause I have one I wanted, but its really tempting to grind when you see some challenges at 99%.

All while I tend to think that Collectors with Dragoons need some toning down on bronze&silver.

[MajorStupidity]

This change is meant to be a boon for more experienced players. Playing the more difficult mode should be more rewarding.

I have a friend who just now started playing me3 mp (he is still under N7 70) and he can hold his own in silver. With other experienced players he can play in gold even.

Honestly this comes across as whining considering that an exp increase does not affect difficulty at all.

Further, how do you know there has been a decrease in gold/platinum players? Do you have access to player data that BW has? The only change I have noticed is that there are far more players in gold that do not belong there (no equipment with bad loadouts) I see this as an attempt to bring the better players back to gold so that PUGs can actually succeed now.

Modifié par MajorStupidity, 14 novembre 2012 - 06:46 .

[SlimJim0725]

Stenun wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

"Elite" players don't drop down to Silver because of difficulty, they drop down to complete 3 challenges faster. It's because of efficiency, not difficulty.

I understand that.

But I am saying that the reason they have to drop down is because the difficulty of Gold stops the easier enemies spawning.  And the reason the game does that, and doesn't simply just increase the toughness of the enemies but rather replaces standard enemies with harder enemies, is because they have made Gold too hard.

If people are dropping only for the Challenges, it's because the Challenges have highlighted one of the flaws in the difficulty of Gold and Platinum.  Not just tougher enemies but different quantities of enemies.

Except that Gold IS NOT TOO HARD. There are just not enough Guardians to complete the Cerberus challenge in a timely manner on Gold. If Gold were to spawn two Guardians at a time on at least two more waves I know I wouldn't drop to Silver to complete it at all. Problem is that Cerberus have been pushovers on every difficulty up until Dragoons were introduced, the only threats were Turrets and Phantoms, now they cut back on the biggest joke of Cerberus (the slow moving, only decent when up close Guardian) and replaced them with either Combat Engineers or Dragoons, neither of which are all that difficult.

[Clayless]

Stenun wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

"Elite" players don't drop down to Silver because of difficulty, they drop down to complete 3 challenges faster. It's because of efficiency, not difficulty.

I understand that.

But I am saying that the reason they have to drop down is because the difficulty of Gold stops the easier enemies spawning.  And the reason the game does that, and doesn't simply just increase the toughness of the enemies but rather replaces standard enemies with harder enemies, is because they have made Gold too hard.

If people are dropping only for the Challenges, it's because the Challenges have highlighted one of the flaws in the difficulty of Gold and Platinum.  Not just tougher enemies but different quantities of enemies.

You're saying that Gold stops the easier enemies from spawning, which isn't entirely true just less of them spawn.

The reason the game does that, and doesn't simply increase the toughness of enemies (it does) but rather replaces the standard enemies with harder enemies, is because they have made Gold too hard.

The reason the game gets harder is because.. it's too hard?

That doesn't make sense.

[Tarelgeth]

If gold was hard for you before, it's gotten easier now with new weapons and new kits and new combinations. If it wasn't hard for you before, it's still not hard.

People aren't changing difficulty because gold is too hard, because gold isn't too hard for anyone that it wasn't too hard for before.

They're changing difficulty because, when all you want is a kill, why would you go for the kill that you have to shoot three times instead of once? Shooting it three times isn't hard, just tedious.

[Stenun]

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

Stenun wrote...

Firstly, thanks to those who have demonstrated once again why it's so hard to have a proper discussion on
these forums. BSN never fails to disappointment in that respect.

This was in reply to a critique that, while rude, was apt. 

No, this response wasn't in reply to anyone in particular.  If it came after a particular person's response then it doesn't mean it was a reply to that particular response.  All replies are posted in a straight line as they are posted, if the reply immediately before mine was a reply critical of my OP then that was just coincidence.  The quoted comment was not an attack on any one person.

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

Stenun wrote...

Are you so dense that you have to question the intelligence of anyone whose opinion isn't precisely the same as yours?

Did you read the response that my reply was to?
I used the "are you so dense" line because that was an EXACT quote he used directed at me.  If he is going to ask if I am so dense and then I respond to him in kind, why am I the only one being criticised for it?

BjornDaDwarf...

Stenun wrote...

Vocal elite.  Elite.  SuperGamer.

All of which you used perjoratively, as in turning them into insulting names to demean and diminish those you view as your opposition.  You used them as insulting names to prove that anyone with those views have invalid opinions that don't matter to this discussion. 

Actually, no, I've been trying not to use those terms perjoratively and I do genuinelly apologise if at times it's come across differently.
The reasons I've been using those terms is simply I've been trying to stroke people's egos.  I would argue that the majority of posters on this board are the Elite players of this game and I've been trying to draw a distinction between the average gamer and those who post on this board.  I don't accept that the experience of most of the users of this forum are the experiences of an average gamer.

[ZombieGambit]

I don't even understand the increased incentive to play Gold and Platinum thing, as if 70,000-120,000 credits wasn't enough. People play Bronze and Silver for challenges because it's way faster to get extractions on the lower difficulties (~15 minutes) than on the harder difficulties, and some of the weapon challenges are truly ridiculous on Gold and Platinum, the Shuriken for example.

If they want more people to go back to Gold and Platinum, they need to make the challenges less grindy. Also, by now most Gold and Platinum exclusive players have maxed their manifests so they're mostly just playing for the challenges anyway.

[anokie]

I with you on this Stenun.

[LtAdams2247 Origin]

I can only speak for myself. I dropped in difficulty to complete the challenges as quickly as possible.

As soon as I have everything on the Alien and Weapons tabs completed, I'm going back to gold with my favorite character (I'm just gonna buy that N7 banner with recruit packs, promoting all the other classes).

I play maybe a dozen gold rounds a week to get cerdits for the new characters. PUGs I played extracted 4 times out of 5 vs. Reapers, Cerberus and Geth. Collectors are a whole other story though. That enemy actually does make silver feel like gold.

[Clearly Balkan]

Stop whining. If everything is so hard for you, play bronze.

I believe you can't even die on that mode.

Modifié par Clearly Balkan, 14 novembre 2012 - 07:58 .

[blacklanner]

Hej, Stenun. Although I understand what you are trying to say here, maybe we should wait how the actual changes will look like. As many stated here, players are dropping down to silver/bronze because of challenges. Maybe BW wants to double(or multiply by x) points you get from killing husks/guardians? So if players are grinding lower dif. because of them, they should be happy and therefore remain on golg/plat. Until the balance changes are actually out, all of this is pure speculation.

As for me, xp gain on gold and plat is not the prime motivator and I dare to say it´s not for most of us here. I´m not aiming to obtain Mass effect banner (though if I continue to play this game, this will come in time eventually). And I think grinding only to obtain a banner is the quickest way to hate MP.

Regarding the increase of difficulty: From my subjective point of view, silver is def. harder now. It´s no longer evolution from bronze, rather a huge leap. Silver and gold are on the same level (gold only takes longer to complete because of more enemies), but because almost every experinced player is equipping consumables, it´s actually easier then silver. But as someone mentioned before, we are seeing migration of bronze/silver players to gold, who are a) not experienced enough b)don´t have proper gear (avenger lv. 2? really?) c) are not using consumables (don´t have them or are thinking it is the same as silver, so there is no need to). So in general, gold with PUGs is more challenging but also more fun. Plat is like gold without consumables.

Clearly Balkan wrote...

Stop whining. If everything is so hard for you, play bronze.

I believe you can't even die on that mode.

I believe she stated several times she is playing gold and has no problem with it. How about add something more constructive here.

edited: grammar

Modifié par Winngard, 14 novembre 2012 - 08:40 .

[Beelzebubs]

The only thing I don't understand is why they are adding XP gains to Platinum? 99% of the people are 20 who play it unless you get an unlucky newbie joining.

[blacklanner]

Beelzebubs wrote...

The only thing I don't understand is why they are adding XP gains to Platinum? 99% of the people are 20 who play it unless you get an unlucky newbie joining.

Well, I played plat with Volus lv 17, and he was a great support. Also played gold with lv 1(host), but I said "why not" and played 3 matches with him. 

I don´t think this xp boost is aimed for low lv. players (or that will be its secondary effect). If you kill 2 husk on plat, but gain same points as killing 10 of them on bronze, then maybe you will remain on plat rather to go to bronze to grind them. But this is my opinion.

[TheKillerAngel]

yus biower is srs bizness

[XTR3M3]

yep dropped down and did a lot of silver to complete challenges like husks, abominations, guardians, ect. I also figured out how to get huge amounts of grabs per map so I finally finished my dog of war. I did that soloing a bronze mission. I am afraid to say how here because BioWare will nerf that too. The AI makes is so much harder to grab since they back away so fast now as you approach.

I was up on gold again today for a while trying to finish out my Typhoon as that is the only thing I have left to max out. I prefer gold when I play a character I am comfortable with and drop to silver to experiment unless I am playing with friends.

[masleslie]

RagingDream wrote...

The amount of whining I see on this thread each day makes me want to hit myself with a brick. It's stated that they are doing the whole XP boost to Gold and Platinum to encourage players to branch out and get better at Gold and Platinum. It's entirely possible to get good at the game, but if you want my God honest opinion, you won't get any better playing Bronze and Silver.

Nice idea, but then there are all the other rant threads pleading with people not to play on harder difficulties if they are not up to it. What's a guy to do?

[V_Davion]

If you think the game is hard, play bronze. If you still think it's hard, play with friends on bronze

[staindgrey]

OP, they aren't making G/P harder. They're making it so they award more points, offering more incentive for people to actually play it when trying to unlock challenges, thus evening out matchmaking (hopefully).

If someone is looking for a G/P match, it could be significantly harder to find one if a majority of the community is busy playing B/S matches for the sake of challenges. That could be fixed if there were a greater payoff to playing G/P and succeeding.

Seriously, I don't see where the problem lies. They made the game harder, sure, but that really has very little-- if anything-- to do with this update's purpose.

[k1ngl1ves]

OP is either a constant troll on this forum... or really dim.

[ZLurps]

Just read the thread and I think people are talking besides their points, or actually debate is actually just semantics about how difference in Gold / Silver difficulty is implemented.

I not a regular Gold player myself, though I'm going to try moving there soon since I have grinded most of stuff that can be done on Bronze/Silver. Tried Gold couple of times, but didn't had good enough setup to Gold games.

I think one thing BW might have overlooked is that many players are also grinding through N7 challenge that requires promotion. Makes sense to promote characters that gets some XP boost from PSP's cards so. I just finished it couple of days ago, and boy did it took time. Thing is everybody doesn't like playing Gold with characters under level 19 - 20 and those who are trying to get used to Gold won't even try but with level 20 characters because they don't wan't to get kicked.

About difficulty in general, I think there are other factors than just numbers behind enemies that contribute to perceived difficulty.

Gold is less forgiving that Silver, that's for sure but things like:
- Lag
- FOV issues with some players, not everyone can remember entire map layout and can forget obstacles behind their back and get stuck etc.
- Uneven teams on PUG's
- Gold games can take a long time to finish and not everybody is willing to use that much time.

IMO contribute to perceived difficulty a lot.
I don't see any of those could be fixed, it's just that some people learn to live with them better than others, have better Internet connection etc.