232 réponses à ce sujet

[Klokos]

No they didn't say it, but look at the tons of post : I farmed silver/bronze to finish the challenge.

[Dokteur Kill]

Klokos wrote...

No they didn't say it, but look at the tons of post : I farmed silver/bronze to finish the challenge.

Again, what does that have to do with soloing?

Heck, I also play mostly silver nowadays. The main reason being that after Retaliation, gold got so much harder that it stopped being fun unless I play with a well-organized group. And sadly, it's been more difficult to put one of those together as people have drifted away from the game.

Eric directly claims that they want to entice players into mastering gold, while failing to see the reasons for why people have dropped out of gold: 
a) the game got harder
a lot of the challenges require you to spend a lot of time playing with weapons that are, quite frankly, complete pants and pretty unusable on gold.

If they want more people to play gold, they need to dial back the difficulty to roughly where it was pre-Retaliation, and ensure that all of the weapon challenges are actually reasonably doable on gold. Which means buffing about half the weapons in the game significantly.

[AzureSky899]

Because of weapon challenges mainly, I have quite a good bit of enemy mastery almost done by just playing Plat(which I started playing when AV came out cause I wanted credits then found I could handle Plat), I don't care about challenges really cause most would involve me solo-ing which I don't like, especially with crappy characters, if it was 100 waves per character sure, but it's 200 and I'm not even going to attempt a Plat solo cause I'm not that skilled

[blacklanner]

[quote]Carlina wrote...

[quote]Winngard wrote...
[quote]Carlina wrote... Are the ppl claiming the game is too easy actually legit anyway.  Judging by other threads on here a large proportion of top players are cheating anyway.  And before you flame me - I'm not saying that all the ppl playing G/P are cheating, just some.  I've seen some player's with N7 = 150 or less and they have all the weapons maxed out including U/R's, mods, characters and their challenge rating is through the roof.  Is that even possible?[/quote]
There are 6 classes - 20 levels per character (also level capped for class). So total N7 120. If you saw someone below that number with maxed out manifest, that yes, he is cheating. But N7 ranking number is NOT a valid indicator for comparing skills, experience etc. And I find it little bit offensive that you plainly state that players with low N7 ranking are most probably cheaters. If you suspect someone cheating, you are welcomed to report him. There are proper channels for that. Otherwise keep these accusations to yourself. 
There are players among us who are simply not leveling. I have a friend with whom I play regulary and he stays at lv 180. So what? And there are players, who are actually buying packs with real currency. Guess they can be considered cheaters too. But wait!! Isn´t that what BW wants?
edited
 [/quote]
 And I find it offensive that you didn't read the thread properly did you! I didn't say anywhere that all ppl on a low score cheat merely it seems very strange that they have 90% of the weapons and characters fully maxed out - And is this actually possible even by spending ££ in the Store due to the randomness of items you get.
And I rather thought the point of the BSN was to put forward opinions.  did i give a list of names?  No so therefore no accusations were made, that wasn't the point of my comment.  All i can say is you are easily offended.   I don't really see what your friend not levelling has to do with anything.  He won't unless he plays a lot and promotes his characters often.  As you say - so what?
And I do pay for stuff as well but you don't get preferential treatment so it's still pretty much down to luck what you get.  I've been playing MP since March.  I've grinded my way to N7 1380.  Not all my weapons are maxed out and I've yet to unlock all the characters.  That's what I was getting at.   
and if ppl cheat if ruins the game for the rest of us.  [/quote]

Well, I´m first to admit, that english is not my native language. So let me recap what you wrote. 
  ...Judging by other threads on here a large proportion of top players are cheating anyway.
...
 ....I'm not saying that all the ppl playing G/P are cheating, just some.
... (following)..
...I 've  seen some player's with N7 = 150 or seenless and they have all the weapons maxed out including U/R's, mods, characters and their challenge rating is through the roof.  Is that even possible?... 

My answer: ...
I find it little bit offensive that you plainly state
that players with low N7 ranking are most probably cheaters. Yes, I took all from your paragraph and sum it up. But I admit you didn´t wrote it as per se. So I apologize.
Perhaps I should clarify this for you - Yes, it is posssible to have 120 N7 rank and have manifest maxed out and be a top player (not in a sence of ranking, but skill). It takes the same effort to max out manifest for them as for me or you. He just choose to not promote character. His choice. I have 7 reset cards in stock, cause I chose not to reset char., but to promote it instead.

If you found somebody below N7 120 with maxed manifest, he is(IMO) cheater, cause I don´t see a way to max characters(with experience gain) and not to achieve lv 20.

[/quote]Carlina wrote... 
did i give a list of names?  No so therefore no accusations were made, that wasn't the point of my comment.
[/quote]

No, you didn´ t give a list of names, you just stated the above - which, I think, is worse.

 [/quote]Carlina wrote... 
I don't really see what your friend not levelling has to do with anything.  He won't unless he plays a lot and promotes his characters often.  As you say - so what?
 [/quote] 

That was an example. He plays a lot, got his manifest maxed out except for remaining UR and he is N7 180. He is not leveling because he chose not to.

Hope this will make this issue regarding low N7 ranks and their manifest maxed out clear.

Modifié par Winngard, 14 novembre 2012 - 03:06 .

[Fade9wayz]

Stenun wrote...

For months some people have been saying on this board that multiplayer is too hard.  Whenever they try, though, they get drowned out by people accusing them of whining or of people flat out telling them to shut up or of people telling them that actually the game isn't hard enough because the person responding is SuperGamer and wants it to be a challenge akin to ice skating uphill.

Maybe as a result of the vocal elite players on this forum or maybe genuinelly because of their own ideas of what the game should be, BioWare have indeed been slowly making this game harder.  I thought the introduction of Platinum would be an end to it but no; the other difficulties were still made slowly harder, kits got nerfed, more powerful enemies got introduced, and more and more players on the game itself complained over mic that the game was getting harder.  But still BSN refused to listen and still BioWare kept up the difficulty increases.

And then, today, in the preview of tomorrow's Balance Changes, we get told:
"[w]e are seeing a tendency for players to play at lower difficulties in order to complete challenges"

And you know what Bioware and you vocal elite players?  There's a bloody good reason for that ...

BW has also buffed other kits (Batarians increased health and shields...) and weapons. The ones that were nerfed (Krisae, Falcon for exemple) were nerfed for good reasons. They have caped the number of dragoons appearing in a match. I'll grant you that the Collectors are the strongest faction, but they aren't unbeatable either. It's a matter of adapting to new things. If anything, I find that all four factions are more consistent now.

As was already mentionned Gold players don't come to bronze or silver because they find challenges too difficult. It's just waaaaay faster. Besides, I don't see your point about the balance change. Why do you think they will make it harder? They might just increase the number of points gained on higher difficulties so that it would be an incentive to keep playing on Gold and Plat for chalenges instead of farming Bronze and Silver.

[Dokteur Kill]

Winngard wrote...
If you found somebody below N7 120 with maxed manifest, he is(IMO) cheater, cause I don´t see a way to max characters(with experience gain) and not to achieve lv 20.

Simple: Don't create a character in that class.

You don't get levels in a class (and thereby N7 rating) before you actually create a character of that class. So it's theoretically possible (albeit probably quite boring) to play only one class, and thereby maxing out your manifest while having an N7 rating of only 20.

[blacklanner]

Ok, lets put it the other way around. When (how is to be seen) BW increase xp gain from gold/plat, will you (players who are playing silver/gold because of challenges/grinding) return to gold and plat? Will this motivate you to stay there and try weapons and builds and their combinations, which may/may not be suited for G/P?

[doozerdude]

What they mean, is that EVERYONE, especially the elite, are grinding out challenges on bronze. I completely agree with BW that it needs to be fixed.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

I curb-stomped a few people the last go-round on this subject, so I'll bring it up here: The game is many orders of magnitude more difficult now than it was at launch.

This is not a matter of debate. That players are shuffling down to lower difficulties to get things done should surprise exactly nobody, except maybe Bioware's developers, several of whom I am convinced never actually play above Silver.

Modifié par JaimasOfRaxis, 14 novembre 2012 - 03:22 .

[blacklanner]

Dokteur Kill wrote...

Winngard wrote...
If you found somebody below N7 120 with maxed manifest, he is(IMO) cheater, cause I don´t see a way to max characters(with experience gain) and not to achieve lv 20.

Simple: Don't create a character in that class.

You don't get levels in a class (and thereby N7 rating) before you actually create a character of that class. So it's theoretically possible (albeit probably quite boring) to play only one class, and thereby maxing out your manifest while having an N7 rating of only 20.

I admit I dind´t though of that. So although you have the xp to promote the character, you choose not to, and you stay in one class (or just not promote in all of them), your N7 rank won´t go up, right?  
Well that way it is possible to achieve maxed manifest. But... brrr... an awfull way to do it. Kind of boring too.<_<

Modifié par Winngard, 14 novembre 2012 - 03:21 .

[Klokos]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

I curb-stomped a few people the last go-round on this subject, so I'll bring it up here: The game is many orders of magnitude more difficult now than it was at launch.

This is not a matter of debate. That players are shuffling down to lower difficulties to get things done should surprise exactly nobody, except maybe Bioware's developers, several of whom I am convinced never actually play Silver.

You Forgot Gear, New weapons and classes and various buffs. Power Creep also worked in favour of the players in several occasion. It's also a good thing that the game is actually hard and people should stop to expect to be able to complete gold without any challenge. 

[FreaperFTW]

Omega2079 wrote...

I think they've made the game easier. The power creep is slow, but it's there.

There IS power creep, but mainly in the form of new kits and weapons. The classes and weapons new players start with are unsuited for barely anything, let alone Gold or Platinum. Playing with a Human Engineer on Silver with a stock Avenger or Predator will mostly result in you getting destroyed or having to depend entirely on the rest of your team. They'll barely be able to learn anything that way.

This is without taking the massive mountain of mediocre unlockables into account. A friend of mine started playing a few weeks ago, but because of the frustratingly unpredictable nature of the RNG Store he'd have to run around with a Incisor I because the rest of his weapons were unsuited for Silver. Needless to say neither of us enjoyed the experience. Not me; because it was too easy, nor him; because it was too hard.

I haven't touched Bronze in ages, and I barely play Silver anymore, but I do agree with OP that the game has become increasingly more difficult for newer players compared to how it was when WE started out (that's Demo-players). And if everyone who's just roaring and rambling could get their head of their ass for a minute, it'd help the discussion a lot.

[ryanshowseason3]

Klokos wrote...

Dokteur Kill wrote...

ryanshowseason3 wrote...

Look in my sig. Gold is not supposed to be easy. It is meant to be challenging even with end game equipment and the best of players. Sorry but that is how it is.

So why is BioWare then trying to push more players onto gold?

But They aren't, they just want to stop people from soloing silver/bronze to get challenges.

Thank you,

but regardless gold is supposed to be difficult. Making it easier is not the path.

[Fade9wayz]

Winngard wrote...

Ok, lets put it the other way around. When (how is to be seen) BW increase xp gain from gold/plat, will you (players who are playing silver/gold because of challenges/grinding) return to gold and plat? Will this motivate you to stay there and try weapons and builds and their combinations, which may/may not be suited for G/P?

I'd imagine yes. I haven't farmed bronze or silver for my challenges since I'm in no particular hurry and would rather have fun and possibly a good payout if my team is competent. There was only this one instance where I needed husks points to complete the Halloween challenge. Had there been more husks or more points for Gold husks, I wouldn't have needed this.

[No More Redbull]

Stenun wrote...

For months some people have been saying on this board that multiplayer is too hard.  Whenever they try, though, they get drowned out by people accusing them of whining or of people flat out telling them to shut up or of people telling them that actually the game isn't hard enough because the person responding is SuperGamer and wants it to be a challenge akin to ice skating uphill.

Maybe as a result of the vocal elite players on this forum or maybe genuinelly because of their own ideas of what the game should be, BioWare have indeed been slowly making this game harder.  I thought the introduction of Platinum would be an end to it but no; the other difficulties were still made slowly harder, kits got nerfed, more powerful enemies got introduced, and more and more players on the game itself complained over mic that the game was getting harder.  But still BSN refused to listen and still BioWare kept up the difficulty increases.

And then, today, in the preview of tomorrow's Balance Changes, we get told:
"[w]e are seeing a tendency for players to play at lower difficulties in order to complete challenges"

And you know what Bioware and you vocal elite players?  There's a bloody good reason for that ...

Sucks to suck, bro.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Klokos wrote...

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

I curb-stomped a few people the last go-round on this subject, so I'll bring it up here: The game is many orders of magnitude more difficult now than it was at launch.

This is not a matter of debate. That players are shuffling down to lower difficulties to get things done should surprise exactly nobody, except maybe Bioware's developers, several of whom I am convinced never actually play Silver.

You Forgot Gear, New weapons and classes and various buffs. Power Creep also worked in favour of the players in several occasion. It's also a good thing that the game is actually hard and people should stop to expect to be able to complete gold without any challenge. 

Gear's all well and good.... For those who have it. It has a drop rate somewhere around that of Ultra-Rare items, and everyone knows it. As someone who has maxed-out gear allow me to be the first to say that me having a roster of Maxed gear items makes me a minority. For most other players, having level 1-2 gear items until they REALLY start fleshing out items is the norm.

Also, none of the gear options deal with nonsense on that list, which includes stunlock/map redesigns/the new maps being specifically designed to troll players/what have you. All the Grenade Packs and Stronghold Packs in the world aren't preventing me from getting Stunlocked, blasted out of revival animations, nor are they preventing my Decoys from sucking ass.

[No More Redbull]

Stenun wrote...

Firstly, thanks to those who have demonstrated once again why it's so hard to have a proper discussion on these forums. BSN never fails to disappointment in that respect.

Moving on to those of you who are more willing to talk ... :-)

I didn't say the game was impossibly hard, I said most players are finding it increasingly too hard.

Personally, I like playing Gold. The only reason I've been playing mostly Silver recently is because that's what my Friends play. Because for most of them, Gold is too hard. And they're not the only ones. Loads of people on mic in public games say there's no point playing Gold now as it's too hard. Yes, Gold is beatable but that's not the same thing at all. Not everyone wants a massive challenge for every game - in fact, most people don't want a massive challenge at all. But that's what the game is turning into for most players. The elite players will scoff and poor scorn on that statement but it's true.
I'd be very interested to see just how many people have completed Solo Mastery because while I have no doubt that most of the vocal BSNers have it, most of the wider player base won't.

If BioWare want to keep making the game harder then OK, it's up to them. But to then turn round and say that they want to do something about the reduced numbers playing the higher difficulties is utterly preposterous.

There are multiple difficulties for a reason... Go play silver.

[Kristen Schanche]

Our wording might be poor there. The problem we were discussing with that change is that players who prefer to play on higher difficulties feel obligated to play lower difficulties to complete challenges, because they can complete them as fast or faster there then they could on the difficulty they enjoy.

This discussion has nothing to do with making the game harder, and we are not planning any changes that will make challenges harder to complete then they currently are.

[HellishFiend]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Our wording might be poor there. The problem we were discussing with that change is that players who prefer to play on higher difficulties feel obligated to play lower difficulties to complete challenges, because they can complete them as fast or faster there then they could on the difficulty they enjoy.

This discussion has nothing to do with making the game harder, and we are not planning any changes that will make challenges harder to complete then they currently are.

I picked up on that based on the wording you guys used. Not sure why some people are confused by it. Seems to me like the ones who exclusively play on lower difficulties wont even be affected. 

[ZLurps]

FreaperFTW wrote...

There IS power creep, but mainly in the form of new kits and weapons. The classes and weapons new players start with are unsuited for barely anything, let alone Gold or Platinum. Playing with a Human Engineer on Silver with a stock Avenger or Predator will mostly result in you getting destroyed or having to depend entirely on the rest of your team. They'll barely be able to learn anything that way.

This is without taking the massive mountain of mediocre unlockables into account. A friend of mine started playing a few weeks ago, but because of the frustratingly unpredictable nature of the RNG Store he'd have to run around with a Incisor I because the rest of his weapons were unsuited for Silver. Needless to say neither of us enjoyed the experience. Not me; because it was too easy, nor him; because it was too hard.

I haven't touched Bronze in ages, and I barely play Silver anymore, but I do agree with OP that the game has become increasingly more difficult for newer players compared to how it was when WE started out (that's Demo-players). And if everyone who's just roaring and rambling could get their head of their ass for a minute, it'd help the discussion a lot.

Good post. I have been wondering myself, how multiplayer is going to stay popular because over time there are people who lose their interest and move into other games. New players, should be take their place (especially now when trilogy edition is out) but ATM imo learning curve for new players is steep.

I actually recall time when I was trying to cover the team in FBW even with Raptor 1 on Silver and hating it how the damn pea shooter wouldn't do much anything if you didn't get head shots. I don't think facing Collectors on Bronze with Avenger and Predator 1 is exactly great experience for someone totally new to the game.

That said, I actually like the Colletors a lot, because they IMO sort of fill a role being opponent that creates a bridge to higher difficulties. Especially before Scion nerf Bronze Colletors weren't that different from Silver Reapers or so.

Not every gun out there needs to be equal at all, but I think there's somehow very unintuitive regarding guns in MP. Maybe learning the guns and getting common weapons just takes a little bit too much grinding for new players?

Modifié par ZLurps, 14 novembre 2012 - 03:57 .

[Dokteur Kill]

Chris Schanche wrote...

The problem we were discussing with that change is that players who prefer to play on higher difficulties feel obligated to play lower difficulties to complete challenges, because they can complete them as fast or faster there then they could on the difficulty they enjoy.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't think this has anything to do with completing them faster. It has to do with being able to complete them at all.

For instance, most of the weapon challenges aren't really possible to complete by solely playing gold, simply because you have to play with some of the crappier weapons in order to complete them. Increasing the amount of xp isn't really going to change that.

[OneTrueShot]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Our wording might be poor there. The problem we were discussing with that change is that players who prefer to play on higher difficulties feel obligated to play lower difficulties to complete challenges, because they can complete them as fast or faster there then they could on the difficulty they enjoy.

This discussion has nothing to do with making the game harder, and we are not planning any changes that will make challenges harder to complete then they currently are.

But the fact remains - For the vast majority of the 'Aliens' challenges, it's 'waves completed as 'X' character', which, if you want to get completed in any reasonable fashion/time, you want to run through on bronze, that is, if you're going for challenge banners, which many of us are. All you're really doing is giving a little reward boost to those doing weapons challenge...Which are going to theoretically happen on any difficulty regardless.

[DeathIsHere]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Our wording might be poor there. The problem we were discussing with that change is that players who prefer to play on higher difficulties feel obligated to play lower difficulties to complete challenges, because they can complete them as fast or faster there then they could on the difficulty they enjoy.

This discussion has nothing to do with making the game harder, and we are not planning any changes that will make challenges harder to complete then they currently are.

I think the issue is more or less that certain enemies are more abundant in Bronze/Silver so it's just more convenient to catch the points on those difficulties due to the more frequent appearances of said enemies. Husks, Nemesis, etc. They typically pop up much more often on Silver than Gold and definitely Platinum.

[Dokteur Kill]

OneTrueShot wrote...
But the fact remains - For the vast majority of the 'Aliens' challenges, it's 'waves completed as 'X' character', which, if you want to get completed in any reasonable fashion/time, you want to run through on bronze, that is, if you're going for challenge banners, which many of us are. All you're really doing is giving a little reward boost to those doing weapons challenge...Which are going to theoretically happen on any difficulty regardless.

Also: What he said.

[Tymathee]

Stenun wrote...

For months some people have been saying on this board that multiplayer is too hard.  Whenever they try, though, they get drowned out by people accusing them of whining or of people flat out telling them to shut up or of people telling them that actually the game isn't hard enough because the person responding is SuperGamer and wants it to be a challenge akin to ice skating uphill.

Maybe as a result of the vocal elite players on this forum or maybe genuinelly because of their own ideas of what the game should be, BioWare have indeed been slowly making this game harder.  I thought the introduction of Platinum would be an end to it but no; the other difficulties were still made slowly harder, kits got nerfed, more powerful enemies got introduced, and more and more players on the game itself complained over mic that the game was getting harder.  But still BSN refused to listen and still BioWare kept up the difficulty increases.

And then, today, in the preview of tomorrow's Balance Changes, we get told:
"[w]e are seeing a tendency for players to play at lower difficulties in order to complete challenges"

And you know what Bioware and you vocal elite players?  There's a bloody good reason for that ...

Did you even bother to read the whole thing? Or did you stop there and black out in anger?

It said they'd be raising the score and xp you get for doing said challenges on higher difficulties.

"
Increasing the XP/Score multipliers for Gold and
Platinum difficulties. We are seeing a tendency for players to play at
lower difficulties in order to complete challenges, so hopefully this
will entice players to keep mastering the higher difficulties."
[/list]said nothing about making it more difficult or challenging, you just get more for doing the challenges at a higher difficulty, WHICH IS HOW IT SHOULD BE!

Why would I do a challenge on gold if I can get the same result on bronze or silver? If i do a higher difficulty, i want a reward for doing so and now we are getting it

THANK YOU BIOWARE!!!!