232 réponses à ce sujet

[shadowkinz]

I mainly think we'll drop down to bronze and stuff b/c we can solo it without having to use consumables or really need to try and get stressed. Also, we won't have to compete with other players for points.


edit: oh good point i forgot about guardians/husks etc... being in higher quantity on lower difficulties

Modifié par shadowkinz, 14 novembre 2012 - 04:15 .

[Cyonan]

Dokteur Kill wrote...
As I mentioned earlier, I don't think this has anything to do with completing them faster. It has to do with being able to complete them at all.

For instance, most of the weapon challenges aren't really possible to complete by solely playing gold, simply because you have to play with some of the crappier weapons in order to complete them. Increasing the amount of xp isn't really going to change that.

I've gotten plenty of the "crappy" weapons on Gold.

It's not going to be doable by every player, but to say it's not really possible by playing Gold is exaggerating things quite a bit.

[SilentStep79]

Cyonan wrote...

The reason is because points can be obtained much quicker on lower levels, not because the higher ones are "too hard". This goes double for units like the Guardian where you barely even get to see guy on Gold, and whenever you do he's dead in 2 seconds because everybody else in the game has their Guardian points lagging behind just like you do.

Yes Platinum and Gold are not easy difficulties for some players, but there are those of us that enjoy the more challenging mode and those of us that enjoy overcoming something that we cannot currently complete.

What I don't get is why you seemingly want to deny us this. I get that not everybody wants challenging gameplay, but there are still 2 difficulties for that. Silver got pretty tough for some players lately, but Bioware looked into that and even made changes to tone it down a bit.

well stated. the guardians i've yet to kill on silver thank you.

[HolyAvenger]

Cyonan wrote...

Dokteur Kill wrote...
As I mentioned earlier, I don't think this has anything to do with completing them faster. It has to do with being able to complete them at all.

For instance, most of the weapon challenges aren't really possible to complete by solely playing gold, simply because you have to play with some of the crappier weapons in order to complete them. Increasing the amount of xp isn't really going to change that.

I've gotten plenty of the "crappy" weapons on Gold.

It's not going to be doable by every player, but to say it's not really possible by playing Gold is exaggerating things quite a bit.

Exactly this. Decent players can make every weapon Gold viable. Heck, I haven't even touched my Mantis X in months, brought it to gold for a spin and was super pleasantly surprised by how well it did

[Dokteur Kill]

Tymathee wrote...
Did you even bother to read the whole thing? Or did you stop there and black out in anger?

I think he did, not sure if you read what he wrote, though.

What the OP is stating is that the reasons for people dropping away from gold might be different from what BW think they are.

It said they'd be raising the score and xp you get for doing said challenges on higher difficulties.
 (...)
Why would I do a challenge on gold if I can get the same result on bronze or silver? If i do a higher difficulty, i want a reward for doing so and now we are getting it

Er. You're not getting a reward for anything. You just complete the challenges faster. And, I guess, level up slightly faster if you're an obsessive promoter.

And as was pointed out, it doesn't really matter, because the really time-consuming challenges are the "complete 200 waves with char X" ones. The weapons and power challenges will come by themselves while you're completing those goals.

[BjornDaDwarf]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

Klokos wrote...

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

I curb-stomped a few people the last go-round on this subject, so I'll bring it up here: The game is many orders of magnitude more difficult now than it was at launch.

This is not a matter of debate. That players are shuffling down to lower difficulties to get things done should surprise exactly nobody, except maybe Bioware's developers, several of whom I am convinced never actually play Silver.

You Forgot Gear, New weapons and classes and various buffs. Power Creep also worked in favour of the players in several occasion. It's also a good thing that the game is actually hard and people should stop to expect to be able to complete gold without any challenge. 

Gear's all well and good.... For those who have it. It has a drop rate somewhere around that of Ultra-Rare items, and everyone knows it. As someone who has maxed-out gear allow me to be the first to say that me having a roster of Maxed gear items makes me a minority. For most other players, having level 1-2 gear items until they REALLY start fleshing out items is the norm.

Also, none of the gear options deal with nonsense on that list, which includes stunlock/map redesigns/the new maps being specifically designed to troll players/what have you. All the Grenade Packs and Stronghold Packs in the world aren't preventing me from getting Stunlocked, blasted out of revival animations, nor are they preventing my Decoys from sucking ass.

You have a funny definition of "curb-stomp."  The vast majority of your points are either factually incorrect, looking at the past with rose-colored glasses, or unfounded opinion.  Two of the maps you listed (Jade and Goddess) are two of my favorite maps.  They're awesome, period.  The Collectors are able to be handled by power classes, plenty of people do it everyday.   Many people do take duration spec infiltrators, and it still works great.  Cover still matters a lot, it's camping that got busted.  The Phantom actually used it's shield just as much, but it wasn't visible.  One of the expansions fixed the glitch that was making it's bubble not appear.  Stunlock geth were always terrible.  Every try a Krogan against them back before any DLC had been released?  Do you have any evidence about the sync-kill duration, or just your impression over time?  Pets still work, there was a thread about using a Decoy well just yesterday.  It's just that people stopped using it because they assume that it sucks now. 

[unclemonster]

Stenun wrote...

For those of you who might miss this point in another reply I've posted ...

WHY are you finding it easier to grind on Silver for Challenges? Because Gold is too hard for the Challenges because it spawns too many of the harder enemies, yes? You need to fight the easier enemies because that's what the Challenges require.

So you're dropping to Silver to make the game easier for yourself.

And I would argue that most of you here arguing that are - at the very least - the Better Than Average players. How do you think the average players feel?

No, you are completely missing the point
More of the lesser enemies spawn on silver making it easier to get kills on those enemies that RARELY show on gold and platinum
it has NOTHING to do with difficulty and EVERYTHING to do with certain enemies spawning that rarely appear on gold

[VIC villanous]

Hey Chris I feel that the grind heavy nature of most challenges forces people into bronze to complete them in a timely manner. When you have a 5 character 200 waves per challenge what incentive do you have to do it on higher difficulties where its just going to take you longer. I propose giving people options like having the requirement be 200 on silver or 100 on gold. Also going into gold with unfamiliar setups just to complete a challenge can really drag a team down.

[HolyAvenger]

VIC villanous wrote...

Hey Chris I feel that the grind heavy nature of most challenges forces people into bronze to complete them in a timely manner. When you have a 5 character 200 waves per challenge what incentive do you have to do it on higher difficulties where its just going to take you longer. I propose giving people options like having the requirement be 200 on silver or 100 on gold. Also going into gold with unfamiliar setups just to complete a challenge can really drag a team down.

...the challenge? I'm doing mine on gold. Yes it'll take longer, but it'll personally be more satisfying.

[galaxygrunt]

Well, either I'm getting worse, or the game's getting harder.

If the latter is the case (which I believe it is), then whether or not that's a good thing is fairly subjective. I will say that I think it's detrimental with respect to attracting (and keeping) new players though.

I'm no über-player, but before the "changes" I would consistently place 1st in silver (fwiw) and generally could count on extracting on gold while pulling my weight. Heck, I even extracted more often than not when getting dropped unexpectedly into platinum with no consumables (but I wholeheartedly admit I was largely carried in those instances). Anyway, I say this just to provide context for the following...

After the changes, and getting hammered by collectors, I haven't ventured once into gold or platinum.

[wk38]

So basically if I'm reading all of this right the problem is that people are dropping levels of difficulty because more husks and guardians spawn on silver... So UNLESS their xp/score is meant to target these specific enemy types their changes won't change the fact that people are going to be playing lower difficulties to complete these challenges... Either increase the number of these enemy types on Gold or increase the amount of points acquired for killing them... or better yet decrease the number of points required for completing the challenge... You might be trying to solve the problem without realizing what really caused the problem in the first place...

Just saying...

[upinya slayin]

Stenun wrote...

For months some people have been saying on this board that multiplayer is too hard.  Whenever they try, though, they get drowned out by people accusing them of whining or of people flat out telling them to shut up or of people telling them that actually the game isn't hard enough because the person responding is SuperGamer and wants it to be a challenge akin to ice skating uphill.

Maybe as a result of the vocal elite players on this forum or maybe genuinelly because of their own ideas of what the game should be, BioWare have indeed been slowly making this game harder.  I thought the introduction of Platinum would be an end to it but no; the other difficulties were still made slowly harder, kits got nerfed, more powerful enemies got introduced, and more and more players on the game itself complained over mic that the game was getting harder.  But still BSN refused to listen and still BioWare kept up the difficulty increases.

And then, today, in the preview of tomorrow's Balance Changes, we get told:
"[w]e are seeing a tendency for players to play at lower difficulties in order to complete challenges"

And you know what Bioware and you vocal elite players?  There's a bloody good reason for that ...

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Dokteur Kill]

Cyonan wrote...
I've gotten plenty of the "crappy" weapons on Gold.

It's not going to be doable by every player, but to say it's not really possible by playing Gold is exaggerating things quite a bit.

I'll admit to exaggerating a bit for rhetorical effect, but my point still stands.

For instance, doing the Scimitar challenge was bad enough on silver, I certainly won't be bringing that one into a gold game any time soon (unless I'm feeling particularly masochistic) when other options like the Talon and Piranha are available to me.

[JustinSonic]

 Actually, there's a huge error with their new decision-making process. So, I kind of agree with you.

The way the difficuties are set are fine. Gold/Platinum should be for the more experienced.

But to many getting into the series/casual gamers, perhaps Bronze/Silver is for them! People initially joining won't succeed in Gold (unless you're really lucky), and there are plenty who play games for recreational purposes, not to better themselves at the game.

Granted, it's not going to be affecting the challenges/points (as far as I know), it's just going to help benefit those who play the higher difficulties.

[Minge the Kraut]

My fair-to-middling-player's two cents:

I don't see the problem?
Why should you care if somebody who plays a different difficulty gets more xp or money?

I agree with you, in my opinion the game has become harder since they introduced the collectors. I hate them with a vengeance.
But here is the thing. That's because of my skill level.

I was able to live through gold matches now and again prior to the patch and certainly in public games with white/geth/gold (what a bore it became though).

Post patch, I am happy to survive on Silver and when I managed ONCE to survive against collectors on Gold (no clue what map, the krogan home world one) because we were a good team, I felt I had accomplished something unusual for my skill.
Apparently my skill level is Silver. I am fine with that, I play with friends for fun and I have fun at silver.

Why would I bother if others get more XP on Gold/Plat?
I simply do not to promote my favorite/regularly used class(es), therefore XP becomes useless to me if I chose this option.

No offence ment, but maybe you are too focused on what others do/get instead of enjoying your game? You will enjoy the game a lot more, if you don't give a s*** what others get and concentrate on your experience.

[Blind2Society]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Our wording might be poor there. The problem we were discussing with that change is that players who prefer to play on higher difficulties feel obligated to play lower difficulties to complete challenges, because they can complete them as fast or faster there then they could on the difficulty they enjoy.

This discussion has nothing to do with making the game harder, and we are not planning any changes that will make challenges harder to complete then they currently are.

I understood what you guys meant myself but honestly, unless you plan to drastically increase the XP it will not change a thing. The difference is huge. I rack up so much more soloing silver (and even bronze) not having to fight for points nor having to worry about wiping while milking objective waves.

[Kentation]

They should make Stone Difficulty, people who get down are revive within 5 seconds without using a medigel, objectives are made shorter , enemies have low damage but maintain Bronze health, 1 boss, players immune to stagger etc.

[kwndc]

Everyone will gravitate to the level of difficulty they enjoy or are best at.

Since the boost in difficulty, I rarely do GOLD anymore. SIlver is perfect for MY level of play and occasional BRONZE when I want a more relaxed play and/or need only 5-10K credits to get my next Spectre pack.

[Dokteur Kill]

Minge the Kraut wrote...
I don't see the problem?
Why should you care if somebody who plays a different difficulty gets more xp or money?

I don't think anyone cares about the xp being increased one way or another. We're just pointing out that it's not the solution to what BW apparently perceive as a problem.

I admit I will be somewhat miffed if the credits are increased only for the higher difficulties, but I don't really see that happening. The game reward (and let's be realistic: credits is the only real reward mechanism in this game) is already weighted heavily in favour of the higher difficulties. I've said before and I'll say again: they need to increase the credit rewards for the lower difficulties if they want to make the game attractive to fresh players.

Modifié par Dokteur Kill, 14 novembre 2012 - 04:54 .

[endlessroundz]

I grind silver for challenges not because its easier but because the amount of less likely appearences of certain enemies on gold or platinum such as Guardians and Husk. The other reason I challenge grind on silver is because its quicker to complete matches. Please don't speak for all of us by saying we all think this game is too hard cause its one of the easiest and most fun MP games out there.

[Cyonan]

Dokteur Kill wrote...
I'll admit to exaggerating a bit for rhetorical effect, but my point still stands.

For instance, doing the Scimitar challenge was bad enough on silver, I certainly won't be bringing that one into a gold game any time soon (unless I'm feeling particularly masochistic) when other options like the Talon and Piranha are available to me.

It's more than just a bit. It seems to have more to do with you wanting to optimize your characters for Gold rather than it actually not being possible.

Any gun that I'm worried about I just throw on my Justicar with Warp Ammo. Instantly makes pretty much every gun fairly decent due to how Warp Ammo works, and in any extreme cases I still have my Biotics to fall back on. Geth Engineer also is fairly good for weapons with Hunter Mode and can fall back on powers as well.

Yes it uses consumables, but it's generally a good idea to be using those on Gold/Plat anyway unless you're a more skilled player(In which case you generally shouldn't have much of an issue with the bad guns except maybe a few exceptionally bad ones).

[sandboxgod]

 I agree with some points the original poster presented. For instance, I bet if you gave folks a choice whether or not the new units would be allowed a huge amount would turn them off.

Lots of good points were presented. Yes, many of us have all become more powerful thanks to new guns and characters. However, not all of the changes were welcome.

I have become rather annoyed with all of the constant tweaking the devs have been doing. Must be fun playing God. Some changes are great, others leave me puzzled (constant nerfs, etc).

All you can do is either decide to stick with the game, cut back on playtime, or bounce. I still enjoy it so will still continue to play it on the side. But every balance change I am afraid!

edit- To be clear, I disagree with the major point presented bout the challenges

Modifié par sandboxgod, 14 novembre 2012 - 05:01 .

[Freskione2]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Our wording might be poor there. The problem we were discussing with that change is that players who prefer to play on higher difficulties feel obligated to play lower difficulties to complete challenges, because they can complete them as fast or faster there then they could on the difficulty they enjoy.

This discussion has nothing to do with making the game harder, and we are not planning any changes that will make challenges harder to complete then they currently are.

Good explaination...thank you

[DeadeyeCYclops]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Our wording might be poor there. The problem we were discussing with that change is that players who prefer to play on higher difficulties feel obligated to play lower difficulties to complete challenges, because they can complete them as fast or faster there then they could on the difficulty they enjoy.

This discussion has nothing to do with making the game harder, and we are not planning any changes that will make challenges harder to complete then they currently are.

too bad its not the difficulty lvl ppl are doing this for, its the waves challenges, why spend 30 mins on a gold/plat 10 waves when u can spend 15 minutes on a silver match and get the same amount of waves twice as fast............?

It's merely common sense to complete the waves challenges  on lower difficulty levels for the speed factor. I know it's been mentioned to change it to 200 bronze 150 silver 100 gold or 75 platinum or something like that, and honestly this is how it should have been from the start... granted this is coming from what we know now, looking back... but still.

And then you have now ppl like me who grinded  all the wave challenges on silver 20 + games each ... because of joining in progress games, disconnects..whatever... if u change the wave things now, you are slappin the ppl who put the work in to complete them in the face... lol

Modifié par DeadeyeCYclops78, 14 novembre 2012 - 05:12 .

[Beta Commando]

I don´t have any problem at the moment, maybe the money from bronze/silver matches could be a little higher but not much. It is harder than it used to be that´s for sure and for new players it is frustrating. I´m OK as the way it is but I have to agree that elitists usually fail to see or feel sympathy for players that are lower level. I am usually playing on Gold difficulty but because everyone of my friends are still kind of unskilled to lay that difficulty I help them to get better, carry a game if I have to.

Modifié par Beta Commando, 14 novembre 2012 - 05:16 .