232 réponses à ce sujet

[Methenu]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Our wording might be poor there. The problem we were discussing with that change is that players who prefer to play on higher difficulties feel obligated to play lower difficulties to complete challenges, because they can complete them as fast or faster there then they could on the difficulty they enjoy.

This discussion has nothing to do with making the game harder, and we are not planning any changes that will make challenges harder to complete then they currently are.

What am I missing here?  How is increasing the points/credits in Gold+ difficulty going to help people complete banners at the same rate or better than the Silver and below?  Besides the Spectre Mastery I don't think there is any other that really depends on points and none that I know of depend on credits.  I was under the impression that the reason so many were sticking with the lower difficulties was the rate at which you could destroy and the plentifulness of the mobs.

Besides that all the "extract 10 times" parts of achievements are easier/faster on the lower difficulty levels.  Maybe I'm just looking at the hole in the swiss cheese but I don't see the correlation between higher xp/credits and completing banners doing Gold and Plat at the same rate as the lower difficulties.    

[mo0nblade]

its not a matter of being an elite player because most people believe thats what they are when they arnt even close. all becaise they can camp in the back of a map with a couple vorchas with flamer and some chain overload or going back to firebase white with some phoenix smashers and a decoy. those are the people that want it harder for more credits by half playing just repeatedly using the same power combos. now i will say there is people who want it harder because they actually want it harder but the majority is just a bunch of noobs that spam the same combo for mass credits as fast as possible. i must admit, great idea.. for credits.. horrible for true gamers...

Modifié par mo0nblade, 14 novembre 2012 - 05:17 .

[tangalin]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Stenun wrote...

Kushiel42 wrote...

 I can't really parse what point you're trying to make, otherwise.

My point is that after MONTHS of making Gold and Platinum harder and harder and therefore driving away more and more players from those difficulties (challenges or no challenges), BioWare have suddenly said "Hang on, fewer players are playing these difficulties, that's not what we wanted".

You might be seeing a dip in players playing Gold and Platinum over the last few weeks because of the Challenges but players have been slowly turning away from those difficulties for a lot longer than that.

Your logic is flawed.

More people move to higher difficulties when they get better equipment and characters. Taking a PPR wielding Destroyer into Silver isn't going to be challenging, so people move up difficulties because of challenge + credit reward.

You make it seem like Gold is much more difficult than it actually it, when in reality the good weapons and extra consumable space people will have obtained after all this time means people move up difficulties, rather than move down.

I don't know, I'm at the point where silver is no longer challenging, but can't move up to gold because it is too challenging for most people to handle properly. (ie. TPK wave 4-6)

[essarr71]

Meth, you get xp for killing things. That xp goes toward whatever weapon/power challenge. It might still be faster to solo bronze/silver, but being able to play gold (and get gold credits) and get these done faster is a good thing.

It might be marginal, but it's definitely not a punishment or insignificant/unnecessary.

[BjornDaDwarf]

Methenu wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

Our wording might be poor there. The problem we were discussing with that change is that players who prefer to play on higher difficulties feel obligated to play lower difficulties to complete challenges, because they can complete them as fast or faster there then they could on the difficulty they enjoy.

This discussion has nothing to do with making the game harder, and we are not planning any changes that will make challenges harder to complete then they currently are.

What am I missing here?  How is increasing the points/credits in Gold+ difficulty going to help people complete banners at the same rate or better than the Silver and below?  Besides the Spectre Mastery I don't think there is any other that really depends on points and none that I know of depend on credits.  I was under the impression that the reason so many were sticking with the lower difficulties was the rate at which you could destroy and the plentifulness of the mobs.

They're talking about boosting the number of points you get for killing things on Gold/Plat, which will increase the amount you get per enemy.  Say that a Gold Husk is currently worth 300 points.  They might bump that up to 400 points.  So it would take about 30 percent fewer Gold husks in order to get the Husk Challenges. 

I'm not sure what the exact value is, those are just an example.

[iplay222]

Its pretty easy to be good at this game, and if you think this is tough I worry for you.

[Xiaolruc]

Beelzebubs wrote...

Whining about whiners?

Whine-ception?

BBBRRRRRMMMMMM

I'd say multiplayer can really only be made more difficult ONLY through lag; getting hit by invisible bullets back in the day (first few weeks of multiplayer) wasn't exactly fun.

Simply get together with some good friends (NOTE: good-WILLED; they don't have to be good-at-game) and you can weather any storm!

...FRIENDSHIP! 

[udinbak4]

Xiaolruc wrote...

Beelzebubs wrote...

Whining about whiners?

Whine-ception?

https://www.youtube....M57HcHJ_c#t=16s

[ryoldschool]

The way I understand it, what bjorn said makes sense. I have only been playing gold since the challenge system came out ( did some bronze and silvers for some of the weekend challenges). I only have one banner, nomad ( 10 gold matches on each map) but I still need husks and guardians for the enemy challenges. Its taking forever. I was trying to just play Cerberus, but it is hopeless. So I will like this change.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

You have a funny definition of "curb-stomp."  The vast majority of your points are either factually incorrect, looking at the past with rose-colored glasses, or unfounded opinion.  Two of the maps you listed (Jade and Goddess) are two of my favorite maps.  They're awesome, period.  The Collectors are able to be handled by power classes, plenty of people do it everyday.   Many people do take duration spec infiltrators, and it still works great.  Cover still matters a lot, it's camping that got busted.  The Phantom actually used it's shield just as much, but it wasn't visible.  One of the expansions fixed the glitch that was making it's bubble not appear.  Stunlock geth were always terrible.  Every try a Krogan against them back before any DLC had been released?  Do you have any evidence about the sync-kill duration, or just your impression over time?  Pets still work, there was a thread about using a Decoy well just yesterday.  It's just that people stopped using it because they assume that it sucks now. 

You love Goddess? Awesome.
Not everyone enjoys "lol hack in an area with no less than three vantage points looking at it."

You think Collectors are fine as-is? Awesome.
Not everyone else is enthused about playing a power-reliant class against a faction that screws power-combo-reliant classes and whose very setup is biased towards being infinitely easier for grenade using and weapon-based classes.

You don't think Decoy not distracting foes (its intended purpose, mind you) that aren't Geth is a good thing? Wonderful.
....But you're not in the majority on that one.

The game is harder, especially for newcomers. As the guy who started the KRO TEAM, I've literally played Krogans since DAY ONE.  Yes, Krogans are stagger-resistant now (except the Vanguard and Shaman, whose staggerproofing now doesn't apply towards hits from behind apparently), but they are subjected to the same widely-documented health and shield gating issues that people have complained about, which has dramatically cut down their otherwise-epic survivability.

Modifié par JaimasOfRaxis, 14 novembre 2012 - 05:43 .

[Tonymac]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Our wording might be poor there. The problem we were discussing with that change is that players who prefer to play on higher difficulties feel obligated to play lower difficulties to complete challenges, because they can complete them as fast or faster there then they could on the difficulty they enjoy.

This discussion has nothing to do with making the game harder, and we are not planning any changes that will make challenges harder to complete then they currently are.

We move to lower levels because in order to do these Challenges we have to use terrible guns.  Do you realise that its is uncool to go in and have to shoot things over and over and over until you are totally bored?  Kill a Possessed Scion on Platinum with a M-3 Predator or an M-8 Avenger.  Let me know how long that takes you, pal.  Try doing Lone Wolf with those guns.  If you cuss once, or get bonked out by some trash  mobs I am going to laugh at you - and yet at the same time feel your pain.

The people who made ME3 and ME3 MP are great - do not get me wrong.  But they did NOT play the previous Mass Effect games in my opinion.  Guns in ME3 MP are watered down compared to the real games.  It does not feel the same at all.  That loss of continuity sucks and is disconcerting.

I think that some of the issue here is you are not trying to make the game harder - but that is what is happening.  You have one dude who "Balances".  Thats all he does.  He never said around what, or any of that - he just 'adjusts' every gun and class in the game.  His real purpose - whether or not you call it 'balancing' - is to hold people back.  If a gun is used a lot - thats because 1) its fun, and 2) it works.  Yet, it gets 'Fixed'. 

So, you can say you are not making it harder, yet 'balance' the game every week, or you can just say hey, we are making it harder.  Its the same thing.

[LoboFH]

Stenun wrote...

Those of you telling me to stop whining or to "learn how to be good at the game" or some other vague helpful comment, I draw your attention to the number of people who have slowly but steadily been posting in this thread that they agree with me.

So what?, you and your groupies need "to learn how to be good at the game" and stop whining.

[Valmar]

I get what Chris is saying, but I don't really think its going to change anything. They didn't play lower difficulties because the EXP was better. Indeed stat wise its quicker and easier to finish the numbers in higher difficulties. The reason people feel 'obligated' to player lower difficulties is because of the challenge itself. Not every weapon is gold-viable. Feeling like you have to drag yourself through gold using a crappy weapon... ugh. Easier to do it on something lower because you can actually win with it and not worry about constantly dying.

The GPR for example... Fine gun for some classes, sure . But if you're grinding specifically for the weapon challenge on this then you're not going to be wanting to use it for tech combos and on a caster class. I made that mistake - took forever since I was killing everything with my powers instead of the gun. The quickest way to get a weapon challenge is to focus heavily on using only the gun for kills in the match. You can get away with this on Bronze of Silver. Gold and definitely Platinum are not forgiving, in any sense.

11 waves in 15-20 minutes using nothing but X gun, or walking through the higher-level meatgrinder with constant deaths and the very possible chance of having to be carried due to your weak set up and in the end likely resulting in a mission failure before wave 6.

Easier, quicker, more rewarding and ultimately more responsible to do this in bronze-silver. I understand someone really wanting to finish pistol challenge but if they want to ready up a gold match using nothing but the Predator...That's just inconsiderate of the other players.

It goes beyond just weapon challenges, too. There's also the matter of the enemies. On gold, apparently, getting the required amount of points on guardians, husks and nemesis is a real chore. On silver however? Not so much. I been told silver has the largest amount of husks and guardians which would make it preferred difficulty to play if they were the only ones you were missing. Even if you increase the value of these enemies in higher numbers, silver will probably still be better overall due to the higher number of X enemy.

[Pyth the Bull]

The dregs really came out in force on this thread.

Glad to see something unites them.

[LeandroBraz]

soulstriker09 wrote...

Stenun wrote...
Apparently the Above Average players are dropping to Silver so they can find the easier enemies because it's too hard to just stick to Gold and do it there.

No, we're dropping to silver because it takes FOREVER to finish guardians or husks.
We're dropping to silver because this is what happens when you play Gold/Plat almost exclusively.

exactly

[BjornDaDwarf]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

You love Goddess? Awesome.
Not everyone enjoys "lol hack in an area with no less than three vantage points looking at it."

You think Collectors are fine as-is? Awesome.
Not everyone else is enthused about playing a power-reliant class against a faction that screws power-combo-reliant classes and whose very setup is biased towards being infinitely easier for grenade using and weapon-based classes.

You don't think Decoy not distracting foes (its intended purpose, mind you) that aren't Geth is a good thing? Wonderful.
....But you're not in the majority on that one.

The game is harder, especially for newcomers. As the guy who started the KRO TEAM, I've literally played Krogans since DAY ONE.  Yes, Krogans are stagger-resistant now (except the Vanguard and Shaman, whose staggerproofing now doesn't apply towards hits from behind apparently), but they are subjected to the same widely-documented health and shield gating issues that people have complained about, which has dramatically cut down their otherwise-epic survivability.

Quite frankly, we have no idea which of us is in the "majority."  We have the BSN as a reference point.  Not a great start.

When was the last time you used Decoy on Gold?  I know it's been a long time for me, but that's because I never liked Decoy, even before it was changed.  It's simply a power that doesn't fit with my playstyle.  But a lot of the complaints about it are definitely coming from people who aren't using it.  As I said, there was a thread this week about how the nerf of it was a bunch of overblown hyperbole (not that the BSN ever has that).  

People have been saying that the game is harder for newcomers since the very first player nerf.  And they have been saying it with every nerf since then (even when there aren't nerfs), and they've been saying it with every patch, and they've been saying it with every DLC release.  The fact that people keep saying that doesn't make it true.  The game was freaking really bloody hard when you are starting a new account.  That hasn't changed. 

More hyperbole.  So the chance of getting a rough hack circle on a map "ruins" that map and makes it terrible?  Even though it's a very fun and active map to play that has a lot of player bonuses on it?  It has two of the best spawn bombing locations outside of Glacier (Jade has three great spawn bombing locations).  It has lots of grenades.  It's very easy to kite and maneauver on.  Oh noes, but one hack circle ruins it.  The same is true for Jade and London.  I will take them over many of the original maps.  Condor...meh...not going to argue about it. 

Those "widely documented" issues with health and shield gate have also had people test them and find that they are working fine.  So which is true?  The videos that show them broken or the tests that show them working?  I personally have not encountered that except in very laggy matches off-host.  But that's not really new having health/shield issues in games like that.

And yeah, I like the Collectors.  Purely an opinion, nothing factual to back that up.  But they add variety, and I like that.  But a big reason that people think they are so hard is that they are still so new.  It took months for the general knowledge about how to handle Phantoms, Turrets, Banshees, etc., well.  That same knowledge will develop for the Collectors.  

You've been around a long time.  Remember the rage threads about Marauders on Gold?  Turrets?  Phantoms?  Banshees?  Ravagers?  Hunters?  Pyros?  Cerb Grenades?  How are any of the current complaints different than those?  Most of those compaints, imo, didn't have much substence to them.

[Hurkaleez]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Our wording might be poor there. The problem we were discussing with that change is that players who prefer to play on higher difficulties feel obligated to play lower difficulties to complete challenges, because they can complete them as fast or faster there then they could on the difficulty they enjoy.

This discussion has nothing to do with making the game harder, and we are not planning any changes that will make challenges harder to complete then they currently are.

Can we add some more challenges for Gold and Platinum players which are not inclusive in things like the Mass Effect banner so less skilled players do not get hosed there? This will give Gold/Plat players some sense of achievement while not affecting those who cannot handle the difficulty.

Also, IF you do implement something of this nature, can you please make one for 10 Plat/Gold extractions from say every map so the farmers do not get credit? 

[LeandroBraz]

OneTrueShot wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

Our wording might be poor there. The problem we were discussing with that change is that players who prefer to play on higher difficulties feel obligated to play lower difficulties to complete challenges, because they can complete them as fast or faster there then they could on the difficulty they enjoy.

This discussion has nothing to do with making the game harder, and we are not planning any changes that will make challenges harder to complete then they currently are.

But the fact remains - For the vast majority of the 'Aliens' challenges, it's 'waves completed as 'X' character', which, if you want to get completed in any reasonable fashion/time, you want to run through on bronze, that is, if you're going for challenge banners, which many of us are. All you're really doing is giving a little reward boost to those doing weapons challenge...Which are going to theoretically happen on any difficulty regardless.

if you think that getting a banner faster is worth hours playing in a boring difficulty, I don't think Bioware can help you on that. What they can do is raise XP, which they are doing..

 The thing is, it's a challenge, it is not supposed to be fast or easy, you should take time to win them. 

[K_O_513]

If they want to increase exp given out on higher difficulties to help facilitate challenge grinding, cool.

But if it's for the reason that they want more people to play higher difficulties, then that's wrong imo. They shouldn't care which difficulties people play on, as long as the game is enjoyable for as many as possible.

[MGakaMoogie]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Our wording might be poor there. The problem we were discussing with that change is that players who prefer to play on higher difficulties feel obligated to play lower difficulties to complete challenges, because they can complete them as fast or faster there then they could on the difficulty they enjoy.

This discussion has nothing to do with making the game harder, and we are not planning any changes that will make challenges harder to complete then they currently are.

I think this balance change will be good cause the reason I stopped playing platiunam for a month at least  is cause I felt that the challenges were better completed on lower difficulties. But in the end I find myself enjoying the game less without the challenge so this I believe this change will fix my need to do challenges and of course have a challenge completing the rounds

[LeandroBraz]

Methenu wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

Our wording might be poor there. The problem we were discussing with that change is that players who prefer to play on higher difficulties feel obligated to play lower difficulties to complete challenges, because they can complete them as fast or faster there then they could on the difficulty they enjoy.

This discussion has nothing to do with making the game harder, and we are not planning any changes that will make challenges harder to complete then they currently are.

What am I missing here?  How is increasing the points/credits in Gold+ difficulty going to help people complete banners at the same rate or better than the Silver and below?  Besides the Spectre Mastery I don't think there is any other that really depends on points and none that I know of depend on credits.  I was under the impression that the reason so many were sticking with the lower difficulties was the rate at which you could destroy and the plentifulness of the mobs.

Besides that all the "extract 10 times" parts of achievements are easier/faster on the lower difficulty levels.  Maybe I'm just looking at the hole in the swiss cheese but I don't see the correlation between higher xp/credits and completing banners doing Gold and Plat at the same rate as the lower difficulties.    

Enemies mastery, that require all silvers, because of the bad state bug. Guardians, for example, are a lot more common on silver, so people go for silver, to kill a lot of guardians....

[Schneidend]

 The last nerf to the geth made them a lot easier. Period.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Carlina wrote...

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...


Hahahaha

I must be a cheater then, with my N7 120 and all URs maxed.

well you certainly can't read properly.   Perhaps rather than making puerile comments you could offer up how you did that.  You must be extremely lucky and always get whatever weapons/mods/characters you want without getting tons of crap like the rest of us seem to.

Nah, I use my brain. 

As for reading comprehension, I just called you out on your stupidity.

Feel free to flame me, it's winter and it's cold 

[PinchLion]

Gear improved and player skill and so difficulty was adjusted accordingly. A and B and then C.

[AtreiyaN7]

Why should Gold not be made more difficult/more challenging or be tweaked at this point? As far as I'm concerned, you not liking things being as easy for you as they were before (apparently) is your own problem. And I'm someone who just plays on Bronze solo because, duh, Gold and Platinum are hard.