59 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Youth4Ever wrote...

I think you misunderstand. It's not solely a reference to race I would like included. It would be also include other aspects of an ethnic background that coalesce into a real identity outside of being white [nationality]. It is much more likely that a protagonist of color would have a different frame of reference than a white protagonist of the same nationality because they're plainly different from most Orlesians citizens. The same way elves and dwarves are different from your typical citizen, and they have specialized backgrounds in DA:O.

Your protagonist's frame of reference is entirely up to you.

[Fast Jimmy]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

An inevitably white Ferelden or Orleasian protagonist is not a good solution to a bigger issue, however.

What bigger issue?

White people have taken over Thedas!


LOL No, but seriously... ethinc diversity is not something we see in any land of Thedas in the first two games. We see an occassional token member, just like one would expect during Medieval times when travel was limited to those with wealth or funded by larger organizations. Skin pigmentation wise, we only have seen the Rivani as the human ethnicity who isn't white. Ferelden, Orlesian, Tevinter, Antivaan and member of the Free Marches all appear as your average Anglo-saxon skin types. 

If you are pressing for backgrounds that let you come from Tevniter, Rivanni, Orlais, etc. I am all for it. But to have it tie into some comments about appearance is not the wisest course of action, imo.

[Massakkolia]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

White people have taken over Thedas!


LOL No, but seriously... ethinc diversity is not something we see in any land of Thedas in the first two games. We see an occassional token member, just like one would expect during Medieval times when travel was limited to those with wealth or funded by larger organizations. Skin pigmentation wise, we only have seen the Rivani as the human ethnicity who isn't white. Ferelden, Orlesian, Tevinter, Antivaan and member of the Free Marches all appear as your average Anglo-saxon skin types. 

If you are pressing for backgrounds that let you come from Tevniter, Rivanni, Orlais, etc. I am all for it. But to have it tie into some comments about appearance is not the wisest course of action, imo.

Now that I've given this some thought, I think it would be for the best to have the ethnicity left as open as possible, both skin colour and nationality. If the PC is truly going to be an "inquisitor", that's likely the role we'll be most often in when approaching people. It shouldn't be a big deal to leave the ethnic background completely up to the imagination of the player. It'd be the best solution from the role-playing point of view as well, because I highly doubt Bioware would offer us a satisfyingly large range of ethnic backgrounds, especially if they in any way were tied to the plot. It would be a budget nightmare.

In DA2 the story demanded a Fereldan refugee protagonist (who could be black, depending on the player). One of the themes was leaving home and building a new one. DA:O was about war in Ferelden. The problem with being from Ferelden (as much as I like it!) is that it makes it pretty challenging for people to come up with believable explanations why their PC is black. If ethnicity would be left completely open in DA3, this problem would be erased.

Granted, Thedas is awfully white. Even Rivain appears to be closer to Middle East/ Mediterranean type of ethnicity than African complexion. If Frostbite 2 makes it easier to make different skin tones, I wouldn't mind at all if they retconned that European Middle Ages demography and just add some colour to their fantasy world.

Modifié par Ria, 15 novembre 2012 - 01:16 .

[lil yonce]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Fair enough, but if we aren't getting different races, I don't think we will get different ethnicity backgrounds.

The protagonist is guaranteed to be human, so I thought perhaps there would more racial and ethnic diversity among that single choice.

1 is bad because there are a list of requirements for the game a mile long and putting something like this on the list would bump down many other things. And given how I don't really see how it would do all that much for the actual game (since the devs have stated that the backgrounds will not be playable, that we all will start at the same point in the story) other than just being occassional comments by others or random changes to dialogue by our character, I would hope it would rank low on the list. Not to say it doesn't belong on the list, but I believe it shouldn't take priority over something like, say, endings that make sense.

But this exception should be made for elves and dwarves in DA:O?

2 is also bad, because for every way you want to add flavor to your character, it also takes away something you can fill in the blanks for. Many love a blank slate character and hate the voice PC because of the gaps even things like tone add, so added comments by others or even by our own characters run the risk of playing "Bioware's" character, as opposed to our own.

I don't think an occasional reference to a character's ethnic background is the same as having the character's entire history decided for them. It simply gives the player a realistic frame to work from. This modifer should be in addition to a relevant story-based background.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 15 novembre 2012 - 01:26 .

[AlexanderCousland]

Wulfram wrote...

Isabela doesn't like Rivain?  I don't remember anything about that..

Her only objection to Hawke giving her a memento of home is that it's a fertility talisman.

Hawke gave Isabela and fertility talisman, and now she's traveling with alistair


Im Just saying.

[slimgrin]

Youth4Ever wrote...


I'm not asking for racial prejudice to be introduced into DA3. Simply, I want the in-game acknowledgement that my character is of a specific ethnicity. The character can acknowledge it or someone else can as it relates to a topic. I'd simply like it to be referenced.

Yes that will make the game so much richer, deeper, more meaningful.

...are you even serious?

Modifié par slimgrin, 15 novembre 2012 - 03:33 .

[AlexanderCousland]

Youth4Ever wrote...

I think you misunderstand. It's not solely a reference to race I would like included. It would be also include other aspects of an ethnic background that coalesce into a real identity outside of being white [nationality]. It is much more likely that a protagonist of color would have a different frame of reference than a white protagonist of the same nationality because they're plainly different from most Orlesians citizens. The same way elves and dwarves are different from your typical citizen, and they have specialized backgrounds in DA:O.

I think the best way for Human's to come together would be if we stopped seperating ourselves from one another and quit attaching stereotype's to eachother based upon skin colour.

If Bioware did what you were asking then, inevitably, there would be people with complaint's.

I can see it now. "Hey Bioware, I dont like the way the NPC said that line to my PC because he was this colour, What in the hell was that supposed to mean?!?!? Are you guys racist? Im officially done supporting you guys!"

[Todd23]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

I'm from Utah.  But I've lived in California for so long I act like a Californian and even make fun of Utahns.  But I still introduce my self as a utahn, not because of my race.  But because it'll always be my native land.

I think it's a different situation since Utahn doesn't describe race and ethnic background like Rivaini can. It's more similar to being Jewish. Being Jewish can mean ethnicity, nationality, religion, or culture.

I've always gotten the same confusion from people when I'm talking about jews as when I say Qunari.  They never know if I'm talking about the race or religion.

[Fast Jimmy]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Fair enough, but if we aren't getting different races, I don't think we will get different ethnicity backgrounds.

The protagonist is guaranteed to be human, so I thought perhaps there would more racial and ethnic diversity among that single choice.

1 is bad because there are a list of requirements for the game a mile long and putting something like this on the list would bump down many other things. And given how I don't really see how it would do all that much for the actual game (since the devs have stated that the backgrounds will not be playable, that we all will start at the same point in the story) other than just being occassional comments by others or random changes to dialogue by our character, I would hope it would rank low on the list. Not to say it doesn't belong on the list, but I believe it shouldn't take priority over something like, say, endings that make sense.

But this exception should be made for elves and dwarves in DA:O?

2 is also bad, because for every way you want to add flavor to your character, it also takes away something you can fill in the blanks for. Many love a blank slate character and hate the voice PC because of the gaps even things like tone add, so added comments by others or even by our own characters run the risk of playing "Bioware's" character, as opposed to our own.

I don't think an occasional reference to a character's ethnic background is the same as having the character's entire history decided for them. It simply gives the player a realistic frame to work from. This modifer should be in addition to a relevant story-based background.

In answer to all of your responses, I don't think any of them are bad ideas... its just that they don't have a large value for the amount of work that would be required.

That being said, I'm going to just cool my heels on the entire background discussion, since we don't know what the devs are planning and speculating about this kind of stuff will only result in more "but ifs" and "why nots" than just an actual objective evaluation of what we are going to get. If I honestly thought talking about something like this was going to change Bioware's minds about the direction they are going to take a feature such as backgrounds, I'd discuss. But I think they have their minds pretty much set on what they intend to do and that they will really only be looking for feedback and suggestions once they have gotten their model to a working stage. 

And, at that point, it will far beyond something as high level as reflecting ethnicity, or affecting languages, or having different religious paints to color our character with. If those are included, cool. If not, then I wouldn't expect them to be any more likely to add or consider them now than I would in the Spring, four or five months before they go gold.

[David Gaider]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
That being said, I'm going to just cool my heels on the entire background discussion, since we don't know what the devs are planning and speculating about this kind of stuff will only result in more "but ifs" and "why nots" than just an actual objective evaluation of what we are going to get. If I honestly thought talking about something like this was going to change Bioware's minds about the direction they are going to take a feature such as backgrounds, I'd discuss. But I think they have their minds pretty much set on what they intend to do and that they will really only be looking for feedback and suggestions once they have gotten their model to a working stage.

Except I've already answered this:

1) We can't reference a player appearance options in dialogue, even if we wanted to, because there are no scripting hooks for that.

2) We will not create background options which say "you are of X ethnicity", which would then restrict your appearance-- any more than we would have restricted a Human Noble player in Origins to caucasian simply because they were Fereldan. We would intentionally leave it open for the player to establish for themselves. Hence why I said "backgrounds are not tied to appearance". And they won't be.

And since this is just inevitably going to get ugly, I'm closing the thread. Sorry.

Modifié par David Gaider, 15 novembre 2012 - 03:38 .