61 réponses à ce sujet

[megabeast37215]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Collectors are an anti-caster faction.  Sure, it is doable, but much harder for a caster than for the game gods (shooty classes.) I'd love to see an anti-gun-spam faction and anti-gun enemies in the other factions and watch the rivers of tears flow from the gun spammer COD crowd. 


Since Bioware has gone so fully anti-power usage and pro-gun spamage I can only assume they think people who prefer power centric classes are the elite players who need to be handicapped greatly.   ME 3 is the only game I've ever seen where the highest DPS classes are also the tankiest.

You're such a dork.

There are plenty of power classes that outright dominate the Collectors. Justicar, SmashAdept, Slayer just to name a few....

[Xaijin]

Tallgeese_VII wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

lol no medigel was the rule, so...

I died in the extraction zone with two seconds left from a cross ramp Preatorian zap.

Delicious Irony.

For me, you made impossible possible. Great job.

But it`s also proof that squishy power based characters have hard time against collectors unless supported properly.


There are many hacking zones.. where you have to deal with constant Multi-frag grenade on the ground +  Scion laser beam.. along with infinite number of bullets & abominatons. Squishy power base characters alone cannot survive any of that for more than 3 seconds.. once you deplete Praetorian cap of 5-7 or so it becomes slightly easier though.

Yes, but you can also support yourself by picking a reasonable loadout. Like a solid SMG or Pistol with AP or Warp or Incin rounds. The piranha is also a rather obvious choice. This was one caster. Now convert this to something like a Valkyrie and a Shaman or AJA and a Fury, and have a well rounded loadout.

The only issue that would remain is Collector damage normalization.

[Xaijin]

MoeRayShep wrote...

so what we have here is a testament to OP's badassedness (badassery?)
huzzah.
Good for you, OP; and I mean that both sincerely regarding the former point and sarcastically regarding the pending point:
your success (in 66 minutes) doesn't invalidate or really in any way affect complaints others may have regarding the Collectors.
It's purely a testament to your skill.
There, ego massaged, point (if there was intended to be one) invalidated.

If the complaint is "you can't win or cast powers effectively", I would hazard point made.

[Tallgeese_VII]

Xaijin wrote...

Tallgeese_VII wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

lol no medigel was the rule, so...

I died in the extraction zone with two seconds left from a cross ramp Preatorian zap.

Delicious Irony.

For me, you made impossible possible. Great job.

But it`s also proof that squishy power based characters have hard time against collectors unless supported properly.


There are many hacking zones.. where you have to deal with constant Multi-frag grenade on the ground +  Scion laser beam.. along with infinite number of bullets & abominatons. Squishy power base characters alone cannot survive any of that for more than 3 seconds.. once you deplete Praetorian cap of 5-7 or so it becomes slightly easier though.

Yes, but you can also support yourself by picking a reasonable loadout. Like a solid SMG or Pistol with AP or Warp or Incin rounds. The piranha is also a rather obvious choice. This was one caster. Now convert this to something like a Valkyrie and a Shaman or AJA and a Fury, and have a well rounded loadout.

The only issue that would remain is Collector damage normalization.

You are right, people cannot go intu U/U/G with squishy character that is not ready for Collectors anymore.
PUG often still do it.. go into character that is totally squishy and dealing losw DPS, and Collectors OWN them completely.
There are plenty of caster characters who do absolutely fine against collectors. It just takes more skill, equipments, and experience.
All biotic powers are just as effective on Collectors, so they cannot be really bad as long as staying alive is not an issue.

I hope all PUG U/U players always have collectors in their mind when preparing for the game.
..but I also know this is too much to ask.

[megabeast37215]

Tallgeese_VII wrote...

I hope all PUG U/U players always have collectors in their mind when preparing for the game.
..but I also know this is too much to ask.

Ohh they're prepared alright... prepared to quit as soon as the hear the first cockroach squeak...

This is why I kick any PUG from my lobby with no equipment on... so they won't quit at the first sign of adversity.

[palker]

And it only took you an hour. God that must have been fun.

[BridgeBurner]

Xaijin wrote...


Medigel: none (to further illustrate the point thereof)

Where's the 10 waves survived medal if you used no medigel?



By the looks of your screen cap you didn't even get 3 waves survived.

Modifié par Annomander, 14 novembre 2012 - 08:40 .

[megabeast37215]

MastahDisastah wrote...
Weird, I swear I got those medals multiple times without dying once in the match while soloing...but no problem.
However I sincerely hope your effort will prove that casters are good vs collectors as well, for me the scion cannon still remains the problem, regardless of the class picked.

I'm starting to find scions (and the possessed version) really easy to deal with. If they're at range, I use right hand advantage, spam powers and shoot their tumors/face off. I think they're even easier in CQC though with a Caster class... just dance circles around them and spam powers/shoot gun. They're a pretty dumb enemy.. they will stand there and let you abuse them.

[Beerfish]

Slimjim0725 wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Any faction can be killed by any class solo on any level (probably with any weapon) with a player that is skilled enough and takes the time to do so.

Yet half of BSN will still claim it is impossible to do... See the point?

I haven't seen a rash of claims like this.  The people that made the claims that looked silly were BioWare themsleves when they extolled Platinum as being neigh unbeatable.  Anyone that is on these forums on a regular basis has seen the tons of posts and threads showing just about any class soloing just about any faction.

[Beerfish]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Any faction can be killed by any class solo on any level (probably with any weapon) with a player that is skilled enough and takes the time to do so.

Therefore the players that can't should be blaming their own lack of skill instead of blaming everything else.

Yes of course, I agree.  I simply have not seen a huge rash of or any more than normal of posts of people whining about unbeatable things.

[Xaijin]

megabeast37215 wrote...

MastahDisastah wrote...
Weird, I swear I got those medals multiple times without dying once in the match while soloing...but no problem.
However I sincerely hope your effort will prove that casters are good vs collectors as well, for me the scion cannon still remains the problem, regardless of the class picked.

I'm starting to find scions (and the possessed version) really easy to deal with. If they're at range, I use right hand advantage, spam powers and shoot their tumors/face off. I think they're even easier in CQC though with a Caster class... just dance circles around them and spam powers/shoot gun. They're a pretty dumb enemy.. they will stand there and let you abuse them.

Always stick on the right or low, and if you're in the open, pause for a third of a second until he raises his arm, then move and don't stop. Works every time as long as you don't hit geometry or another enemy. Just mind your ass.

[Xaijin]

Annomander wrote...

Xaijin wrote...


Medigel: none (to further illustrate the point thereof)

Where's the 10 waves survived medal if you used no medigel?



By the looks of your screen cap you didn't even get 3 waves survived.

It won't show up half the time, hence bug. See: Squad Elite banner.

[megabeast37215]

Beerfish wrote...

Yes of course, I agree.  I simply have not seen a huge rash of or any more than normal of posts of people whining about unbeatable things.

I've seen more posts about Collectors than Geth lately... especially from the Silver players.

Collectors Silver = a Gold game

Collectors Gold = a Platinum game

Collectors Platinum = just about the same if not easier than Collectors Gold. Wave 9 is the only Collectors Platinum wave that is pretty damn hard. Banshees, Phantoms, Praetorians... and something else (Primes?)... it's alot of speed/sync kill on the field.

[Miniditka77]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Any faction can be killed by any class solo on any level (probably with any weapon) with a player that is skilled enough and takes the time to do so.

Therefore the players that can't should be blaming their own lack of skill instead of blaming everything else.

Acknowledging that something is more difficult is not the same as complaining or blame shifting.  Collectors are more difficult for power-based classes.  The OP is actually proof of that, rather than contradicting it.  A good player with a weapons-based class would have probably done the same thing in half the time.

[Xaijin]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Yes of course, I agree.  I simply have not seen a huge rash of or any more than normal of posts of people whining about unbeatable things.

I've seen more posts about Collectors than Geth lately... especially from the Silver players.

Collectors Silver = a Gold game

Collectors Gold = a Platinum game

Collectors Platinum = just about the same if not easier than Collectors Gold. Wave 9 is the only Collectors Platinum wave that is pretty damn hard. Banshees, Phantoms, Praetorians... and something else (Primes?)... it's alot of speed/sync kill on the field.

Wave 8 tends to be the worst on gold and plat. Lots and lots of Possessed captains + synergy bosses, and no abominations to bleed the wave out.

At least with wave nine and massed fire concentration, you can clear the wave budget in big ass chunks.

[TrollBerzerker01]

I love fighting Collectors as a caster. Anyone who thinks casters are bad against Collectors, don't know how to fight the Collectors.

It's long-ranged gun classes who I think suck versus them.

Then again I find Collectors to be one of the easiest factions in the game and I seriously don't understand why everyone finds them so hard. Similarly I don't understand why everyone thinks Cerberus is easy. I DREAD fighting Cerberus on Gold.

Modifié par TrollBerzerker01, 14 novembre 2012 - 08:58 .

[Xaijin]

Miniditka77 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Any faction can be killed by any class solo on any level (probably with any weapon) with a player that is skilled enough and takes the time to do so.

Therefore the players that can't should be blaming their own lack of skill instead of blaming everything else.

Acknowledging that something is more difficult is not the same as complaining or blame shifting.  Collectors are more difficult for power-based classes.  The OP is actually proof of that, rather than contradicting it.  A good player with a weapons-based class would have probably done the same thing in half the time.

Absolutely. Still the fact remains that taking an AP rapid fire weapon would have dramatically cut the time down, and bringing friends would have been better. There's still threads like this

this

and if you peruse through you'll find other poster therein all of whom made their own threads, one in particular made three about how casters absolutely could not contend with Collectors at all, which is patently false.

Modifié par Xaijin, 14 novembre 2012 - 08:58 .

[Black Phantom]

Miniditka77 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Any faction can be killed by any class solo on any level (probably with any weapon) with a player that is skilled enough and takes the time to do so.

Therefore the players that can't should be blaming their own lack of skill instead of blaming everything else.

Acknowledging that something is more difficult is not the same as complaining or blame shifting.  Collectors are more difficult for power-based classes.  The OP is actually proof of that, rather than contradicting it.  A good player with a weapons-based class would have probably done the same thing in half the time.

I'm not referring to an acknowledgement or denial of increased difficulty, I'm referring to these stupid claims that it is impossible to beat the Collectors with caster classes.

The "weapon class vs power class" mentality stems from the misconception that good weapons restrict power users from using their powers frequently. In reality though, the best weapons in the game are really not all that heavy. A "power-based" class can deal pretty ridiculous weapon damage without sacrificing it's ability to use it's powers very frequently, which makes it hard for an intelligent player to draw the line between a "weapon-based" or "power-based" class: The intelligent player uses both because there is no penalty for doing so.

I get the sense that the people who complain about their caster classes being ineffective against the Collectors are the same types who will equip only an Acolyte, instead of something like Acolyte/ULM Hurricane, Acolyte/Wraith, Talon/ULM CSMG or otherwise any other weapon combination that offers high damage, general utility and does not restrict a class from using it's abilities frequently.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 14 novembre 2012 - 09:03 .

[Beerfish]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Yes of course, I agree.  I simply have not seen a huge rash of or any more than normal of posts of people whining about unbeatable things.

I've seen more posts about Collectors than Geth lately... especially from the Silver players.

Collectors Silver = a Gold game

Collectors Gold = a Platinum game

Collectors Platinum = just about the same if not easier than Collectors Gold. Wave 9 is the only Collectors Platinum wave that is pretty damn hard. Banshees, Phantoms, Praetorians... and something else (Primes?)... it's alot of speed/sync kill on the field.

Yes there are alot of threads about collectors and their increased or preceived increased diffuculty.  That doesn't relate to this thread though in my opinion.  Has there been a ton of people complaining that they can't solo against the collectors and whining about it?  i haven't noticed.

[Hantaksk]

I only see a "skilled" player beign able to solo a gold game against collectors

What was your point anyway?
that you wanted to prove that adepts are not helpless against collectors? because no one but the newer players would say such a thing.

Also, given the way collectors attack, its actually easier to hold them off with a weapon capable of staggering such as a scorpion... (mook level troops, wich are the real threat, rush in at hunter mode speed firing and meleeing)

Dont get me wrong, i take my hat off before your display, but still you cannot deny that only a few can deal with collectors just as fine as with the other factions, even less with power spamming classes.

[megabeast37215]

Ashen Earth wrote...

I get the sense that the people who complain about their caster classes being ineffective against the Collectors are the same types who will equip only an Acolyte, instead of something like Acolyte/ULM Hurricane, Acolyte/Wraith, Talon/ULM CSMG or otherwise any other weapon combination that offers high damage, general utility and does not restrict a class from using it's abilities frequently.

Like Grumpy Old Wizard and his group of thralls.

You know.. I think they'd be fine with powerful pistols like Paladin/Talon, if they could actually shoot.

I just run a Paladin w/ AP Mod/Heavy Barrel on my Justicar and I very very seldom have any problems in CQC, or at range. I surprise myself game after game at how easy it is for her to drop Phantoms/bosses with Reave/Paladin.

Reave/Warp Ammo IV and a Paladin X takes a little less than 1 armor bar per shot off of Gold/Plat Praetorians... that is rather impressive damage for a heavy pistol IMO... after the Reave starts stacking up... it dies even quicker.

Yeah.. power classes vs Collectors are horrible... LOL... makes me wanna ask them, "Have you seen what Biotic Explosions do to Scions, especially after you shoot off their tumors?" Ohh wait... that would mean they would have to use a gun AND their powers... my mistake... can't have any of that. Must be one or the other... there is no middle ground!

[MoeRayShep]

Xaijin wrote...

MoeRayShep wrote...

so what we have here is a testament to OP's badassedness (badassery?)
huzzah.
Good for you, OP; and I mean that both sincerely regarding the former point and sarcastically regarding the pending point:
your success (in 66 minutes) doesn't invalidate or really in any way affect complaints others may have regarding the Collectors.
It's purely a testament to your skill.
There, ego massaged, point (if there was intended to be one) invalidated.

If the complaint is "you can't win or cast powers effectively", I would hazard point made.

This is why I hate arguing; inevitably somebody replies with a point I've already refuted.
Yes, you won. Kudos. That doesn't mean it isn't incredibly difficult and frustrating and beyond the skill of most players.
I doubt many here complain, with full literal intention, that any given factor in the game is impossible; rather that is absurdly difficult.
If you construed the complaint to be that Collectors are *literally* impossible with a caster class-- and therefore refutable by your solo run-- then you, the person making the claim, or possibly both parties involved, are being incredibly daft.

[capn233]

Ashen Earth wrote...
A "power-based" class can deal pretty ridiculous weapon damage without sacrificing it's ability to use it's powers very frequently, which makes it hard for an intelligent player to draw the line between a "weapon-based" or "power-based" class: The intelligent player uses both because there is no penalty for doing so.

People are using a "middle earth" rpg mentality with a difference between magic and weapon classes, that has never existed in Mass Effect.  All classes have always had weapons and powers.

[Ledgend1221]

capn233 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...
A "power-based" class can deal pretty ridiculous weapon damage without sacrificing it's ability to use it's powers very frequently, which makes it hard for an intelligent player to draw the line between a "weapon-based" or "power-based" class: The intelligent player uses both because there is no penalty for doing so.

People are using a "middle earth" rpg mentality with a difference between magic and weapon classes, that has never existed in Mass Effect.  All classes have always had weapons and powers.

Ironic since Gandalf used a sword more then his staff.