IMO
She is the most powerful infiltrator even if not buffed & fixed in a way mentioned in the thread.
SS kill all mook one strike including Phantom. Has infamous TC. High damage safe CC tool Electric Slash.
I welcome if BW fixes all the problems she has, but she is very powerful at current state. If people don`t use her, that`s because they just don`t know how.
(She is another infiltrator along with my GI that I am confident to take to Gold game without any consumable equipments other than gear)
Fix and buff the Shadow!
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#252
Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 04:40
MaxShine
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Air Quotes wrote...
Because a Shadow should be deadly with her sword and super fast melees, cutting and stabbing people and CC'ing them and not with some crazy Quarian invention dubbed by many as an anomination.
Well, I got the golden melee medal and only the bronze shotgun medal... I am pretty sure this confirms most enemies died by the sword... The phantoms did for sure
#253
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Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 04:43
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MuKen wrote...
Air Quotes wrote...
Anyway, dude you sound like those people who say Geth are okay and do not cheat, you have to "pay attention to them" or Collectors are okay and they take normal damage - until it's proven they are bugged.
I've never participated in balance discussions about either of them. But you know what? Collectors got "fixed" after it WAS proved they are bugged. Which is perfectly reasonable. You don't tell people to fix their stuff without proving its broken. Burden of proof IS on you.SS is a poor mans Biotic Charge. No CC, no force, you can't SS groups because they will become aware of you in a second so in this regard it's no different than BC (no matter that you have cloak)
So you want it to have what BC has? Plus doing enough damage to kill all sorts of things in one hit, and being backed up by cloak and bonus power? Where's the tradeoff for these things?The DPS is low, survivability with more than 1 enemy near you is low. You can only engage in 1vs1 battles or you will get killed. Once you commit to SS you're a sitting duck. No DR, no frames and NO SUPRISE to the enemy.
The kill rate is lower compared to a handful of top-tier classes, that's a bad reason to say any class is weak. On top of which, she's a duration infiltrator while in her standard spec.
And, if you aren't soloing, it is quite possible to safely pick people off of the groups as long as you are observant and hit the right one at the right time.
What i REALLY want I for her to have a QUICK CC power to stagger enemies with to set up SS and melee or sto escape AFTER SS or Melee. Because SS is like Biotic Sharge. You Charge a group, everyone is aware of you, but - you get your shields back, you stagger 3 targets, the camera doesn't shift to your back and you don't turn your back to enemies, you deal damage and you can shoot, dodge or throw grenades INSTANTLY.
With SS - you got even for example to a small ground of 3 Troopers or Cannibals, you kill you, you are rooted to the ground before SS finishes and you have control back, other two are already aware of you and eiher shooting you or mellee'ing you. Now you have 2.5 second CD to use another SS or to use ES. OR you can run. But you only killed 1 target and you wasted time, while with BC all 3 them would be dead instanlty.
And if you don't SS into groups and pick only targets that are alone, you waste time WAITING till they are alone and even then that rarely happens. because enemies spawn and travel in groupd of 2-3-4. And usually there's a boss like an Atlas near by waiting to feed you a rocket . Or a turret. On Objective rounds enemies are never alone, and they swarm you. So good luck finding targets to reliably SS and don't get shot to pieces.
#254
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Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 04:45
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Tallgeese_VII wrote...
IMO
She is the most powerful infiltrator even if not buffed & fixed in a way mentioned in the thread.
SS kill all mook one strike including Phantom. Has infamous TC. High damage safe CC tool Electric Slash.
I welcome if BW fixes all the problems she has, but she is very powerful at current state. If people don`t use her, that`s because they just don`t know how.
(She is another infiltrator along with my GI that I am confident to take to Gold game without any consumable equipments other than gear)
LOL. Any other Ifiltrator will deal damage faster and from range and can CC crowds in an instant. TC doesn't help much in CQC.
#255
Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 04:46
MuKen
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Buzykill wrote...
"Shadow" strike... Enemies start meleeing you even before you arrive to the target! 0:41
Been discussed probably literally hundreds of times. That's just the way its animated, in game you teleport instantaneously, you are there before the camera is there. If you decloak just before SS, you can actually see yourself already over there while the camera is still flying over.
#256
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Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 04:46
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100RenegadePoints wrote...
Air Quotes wrote...
Because a Shadow should be deadly with her sword and super fast melees, cutting and stabbing people and CC'ing them and not with some crazy Quarian invention dubbed by many as an anomination.
Well, I got the golden melee medal and only the bronze shotgun medal... I am pretty sure this confirms most enemies died by the sword... The phantoms did for sure
yeah, but a bronze medal could mean you killed 49 enemies with the Reegar.
#257
Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 04:47
Klokos
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Air Quotes wrote...
LOL. Any other Ifiltrator will deal damage faster and from range and can CC crowds in an instant. TC doesn't help much in CQC.
CC stands for Crowd control
#258
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Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 04:47
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MuKen wrote...
Buzykill wrote...
"Shadow" strike... Enemies start meleeing you even before you arrive to the target! 0:41
Been discussed probably literally hundreds of times. That's just the way its animated, in game you teleport instantaneously, you are there before the camera is there. If you decloak just before SS, you can actually see yourself already over there while the camera is still flying over.
And that's why I want for the camera to be faster and give you control over the character sooner. Or give it DR.
#259
Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 04:48
Tallgeese_VII
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You have 3 cannibal? Just shoot one with Graal , SS another one and finish the last one with melee. There is more than just one way to play Shadow.
And why is SS even being compared to Biotic Charge? SS is not affeced by any terrain and is way more powerful than Biotic Charge while keeping the stealth of the character. ...seriously... I get the point where it does not function as it should but all powers in this game has glitch that can be fixed.
And why is SS even being compared to Biotic Charge? SS is not affeced by any terrain and is way more powerful than Biotic Charge while keeping the stealth of the character. ...seriously... I get the point where it does not function as it should but all powers in this game has glitch that can be fixed.
#260
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Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 04:48
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Klokos wrote...
Air Quotes wrote...
LOL. Any other Ifiltrator will deal damage faster and from range and can [/b][b]CC crowds in an instant. TC doesn't help much in CQC.
CC stands for Crowd control
I know. I spelled it to ephasize
#261
Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 04:50
Tallgeese_VII
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Air Quotes wrote...
Tallgeese_VII wrote...
IMO
She is the most powerful infiltrator even if not buffed & fixed in a way mentioned in the thread.
SS kill all mook one strike including Phantom. Has infamous TC. High damage safe CC tool Electric Slash.
I welcome if BW fixes all the problems she has, but she is very powerful at current state. If people don`t use her, that`s because they just don`t know how.
(She is another infiltrator along with my GI that I am confident to take to Gold game without any consumable equipments other than gear)
LOL. Any other Ifiltrator will deal damage faster and from range and can CC crowds in an instant. TC doesn't help much in CQC.
My other infiltratos may be better at dealing damage, but none of them can replace my shadow.
#262
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Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 04:51
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Tallgeese_VII wrote...
You have 3 cannibal? Just shoot one with Graal , SS another one and finish the last one with melee. There is more than just one way to play Shadow.
And why is SS even being compared to Biotic Charge? SS is not affeced by any terrain and is way more powerful than Biotic Charge while keeping the stealth of the character. ...seriously... I get the point where it does not function as it should but all powers in this game has glitch that can be fixed.
Okay, you shoot one with the Graal. Fine, one is dead. You SS another one, but hey he saw you cloak and is shooting you during SS and he's ready to melee you. And another is already also shooting and meleeing you during SS. So you end up dead or at health-gate. Use OPS packs or you're screwed.
Modifié par Air Quotes, 16 novembre 2012 - 04:56 .
#263
Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 05:06
MaxShine
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Air Quotes wrote...
100RenegadePoints wrote...
Air Quotes wrote...
Because a Shadow should be deadly with her sword and super fast melees, cutting and stabbing people and CC'ing them and not with some crazy Quarian invention dubbed by many as an anomination.
Well, I got the golden melee medal and only the bronze shotgun medal... I am pretty sure this confirms most enemies died by the sword... The phantoms did for sure
Well... I do not get it... I just want to be effective with this class, so it is ok to use the Reegar imho. This character has basically no health/shields... so this is no Kroguard/Reegar easy mode. Three assault troopers still kill you instantly. So it is possible to have 'some' CC fun with the Shadow (if they fixed the annoying bugs) if you adjust your build/loadout accordingly. If I want to engage in the fine art of precision gun shooting I will just use the SI...
#264
Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 05:07
Tallgeese_VII
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Even when I charge into 3 phantoms, often all I have to do is
SS one, then second one, and wait 3 seconds jumping and hiding around and SS third one.
I am not going to deny that SS can give some people hard time as it did to me, but I just got used to it.
SS one, then second one, and wait 3 seconds jumping and hiding around and SS third one.
I am not going to deny that SS can give some people hard time as it did to me, but I just got used to it.
#265
Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 05:08
Arctican
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Air Quotes wrote...
Tallgeese_VII wrote...
You have 3 cannibal? Just shoot one with Graal , SS another one and finish the last one with melee. There is more than just one way to play Shadow.
And why is SS even being compared to Biotic Charge? SS is not affeced by any terrain and is way more powerful than Biotic Charge while keeping the stealth of the character. ...seriously... I get the point where it does not function as it should but all powers in this game has glitch that can be fixed.
Okay, you shoot one with the Graal. Fine, one is dead. You SS another one, but hey he saw you cloak and is shooting you during SS and he's ready to melee you. And another is already also shooting and meleeing you during SS. So you end up dead or at health-gate. Use OPS packs or you're screwed.
Cannibals take too long to react to your SS, like many other mooks. The only time they get a hit in is if they saw you way beforehand.
#266
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Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 05:13
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Tallgeese_VII wrote...
Even when I charge into 3 phantoms, often all I have to do is
SS one, then second one, and wait 3 seconds jumping and hiding around and SS third one.
I am not going to deny that SS can give some people hard time as it did to me, but I just got used to it.
You NEVER know if they saw you cloak and SS camera an the whole animation is SLOOOW. So that gives a Phantom a week to melee you, stagger you and sync-kill you. It's always a gamble.
A Batarian has for example Ballistic Blades to set up melee and huge DR during melee. Shadow has Cloak to set up melee but it's super unreliable in CQC.
That's why I created a thread asking to give the Shadow something of a Phase Disruptor to stagger enemies with and set up SS/Melee. If that can't be done, then give Shadow DR or invicibility frames during SS/Melee or make them way faster.
#267
Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 05:20
capn233
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I respectfully disagree.Tallgeese_VII wrote...
She is the most powerful infiltrator even if not buffed & fixed in a way mentioned in the thread.
SS kill all mook one strike including Phantom.
GI can do CQC or ranged equally well. Could one-shot Phantoms long ago. Shadow is a better "melee character" in some ways though.
SI has a better skillset overall, at least for close or ranged weapons combat.
Turian Ghost exists
Not to mention that I think the Quarians both are arguably better since they work better against higher tier enemies with the exception of the Phantom.
Really the Shadow is sort of a one-trick pony. And that one-trick has some problems.
Modifié par capn233, 16 novembre 2012 - 05:21 .
#268
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Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 05:23
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capn233 wrote...
I respectfully disagree.Tallgeese_VII wrote...
She is the most powerful infiltrator even if not buffed & fixed in a way mentioned in the thread.
SS kill all mook one strike including Phantom.
GI can do CQC or ranged equally well. Could one-shot Phantoms long ago. Shadow is a better "melee character" in some ways though.
SI has a better skillset overall, at least for close or ranged weapons combat.
Turian Ghost exists
Not to mention that I think the Quarians both are arguably better since they work better against higher tier enemies with the exception of the Phantom.
Really the Shadow is sort of a one-trick pony. And that one-trick has some problems.
+1
#269
Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 05:28
Tallgeese_VII
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I just believe SS is extremely convinient and powerful skill.
Making SS any further convinient and easier to use than how it is now will make it simply too good in my opinion.
Of course, I will be happy if BW fixes it and makes it better.
but if SS gets any better than now, I can see people spamming it to no tomorrow in PUG...
Making SS any further convinient and easier to use than how it is now will make it simply too good in my opinion.
Of course, I will be happy if BW fixes it and makes it better.
but if SS gets any better than now, I can see people spamming it to no tomorrow in PUG...
#270
Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 05:31
capn233
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People already spam it. Which makes them do really well in early waves and then more poorly in latter waves.Tallgeese_VII wrote...
but if SS gets any better than now, I can see people spamming it to no tomorrow in PUG...
Electric Slash is just not all that great, IMO. In fact the next time I play her I am dropping that skill completely. I will use a gimmick gun for CC and Harrier for damage against bosses
#271
Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 05:33
Tallgeese_VII
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capn233 wrote...
I respectfully disagree.Tallgeese_VII wrote...
She is the most powerful infiltrator even if not buffed & fixed in a way mentioned in the thread.
SS kill all mook one strike including Phantom.
GI can do CQC or ranged equally well. Could one-shot Phantoms long ago. Shadow is a better "melee character" in some ways though.
SI has a better skillset overall, at least for close or ranged weapons combat.
Turian Ghost exists
Not to mention that I think the Quarians both are arguably better since they work better against higher tier enemies with the exception of the Phantom.
Really the Shadow is sort of a one-trick pony. And that one-trick has some problems.
Really? She only has one trick?
I really think she has more tricks than any other infiltrators out there.
#272
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Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 05:33
Guest_Air Quotes_*
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Tallgeese_VII wrote...
I just believe SS is extremely convinient and powerful skill.
Making SS any further convinient and easier to use than how it is now will make it simply too good in my opinion.
Of course, I will be happy if BW fixes it and makes it better.
but if SS gets any better than now, I can see people spamming it to no tomorrow in PUG...
You will not SS into huge groups and survive even with the DR. But it would help with some SS bugs 1on1
Also - notice how fast a Geth can excecutes his heavy melee that is even more powerful than Shadows and it's AOE all around and doesn't require lock-on. Would the Shadow really would be OP with a bit faster melee? Think not.
#273
Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 05:36
Tallgeese_VII
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Air Quotes wrote...
Tallgeese_VII wrote...
I just believe SS is extremely convinient and powerful skill.
Making SS any further convinient and easier to use than how it is now will make it simply too good in my opinion.
Of course, I will be happy if BW fixes it and makes it better.
but if SS gets any better than now, I can see people spamming it to no tomorrow in PUG...
You will not SS into huge groups and survive even with the DR. But it would help with some SS bugs 1on1
Also - notice how fast a Geth can excecutes his heavy melee that is even more powerful than Shadows and it's AOE all around and doesn't require lock-on. Would the Shadow really would be OP with a bit faster melee? Think not.
You`ve already made judgement on how all shadows will be played. I guess that ends the discussion.
#274
Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 05:48
capn233
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Yes she is essentially a melee character with invisible biotic charge, that doesn't refill shields.Tallgeese_VII wrote...
Really? She only has one trick?
I really think she has more tricks than any other infiltrators out there.
You can't make her a decent sniper, and her powers don't support any of the other weapons all that well, IMO. I think Electric Slash is one of the weakest powers that any infiltrator has.
#275
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Posté 16 novembre 2012 - 05:52
Guest_Air Quotes_*
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Tallgeese_VII wrote...
Air Quotes wrote...
Tallgeese_VII wrote...
I just believe SS is extremely convinient and powerful skill.
Making SS any further convinient and easier to use than how it is now will make it simply too good in my opinion.
Of course, I will be happy if BW fixes it and makes it better.
but if SS gets any better than now, I can see people spamming it to no tomorrow in PUG...
You will not SS into huge groups and survive even with the DR. But it would help with some SS bugs 1on1
Also - notice how fast a Geth can excecutes his heavy melee that is even more powerful than Shadows and it's AOE all around and doesn't require lock-on. Would the Shadow really would be OP with a bit faster melee? Think not.
You`ve already made judgement on how all shadows will be played. I guess that ends the discussion.
She is built for CQC and melee, yet sucks at CQC and melee. Why because of the slow speed, cloak and SS buginess.
