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[Ledgend1221]

Reading this thread again and seeing all the arguments all I can say is:
Learn to play.
How come I have no trouble with the shadow against Collecters, Cerberus and reapers?
It's not the class that's at fault.

[Ledgend1221]

Air Quotes wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Reading this thread again and seeing all the arguments all I can say is:
Learn to play.
How come I have no trouble with the shadow against Collecters, Cerberus and reapers?
It's not the class that's at fault.

Yeah? You wanna duo a Gold Collectors? 

Buy me a PC copy of ME3 and send me enough cash to get a good manifest, then yeah.

[Ledgend1221]

Air Quotes wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Reading this thread again and seeing all the arguments all I can say is:
Learn to play.
How come I have no trouble with the shadow against Collecters, Cerberus and reapers?
It's not the class that's at fault.

Yeah? You wanna duo a Gold Collectors? 

Buy me a PC copy of ME3 and send me enough cash to get a good manifest, then yeah.

LOL. How much do you score on UUG?

Depends on the map/enemy combination. I usually average around 80-90k with stanard pugs.

[capn233]

Air Quotes wrote...

She is built for CQC and melee, yet sucks at CQC and melee. Why because of the slow speed, cloak and SS buginess. 

She is pretty good at melee, but not versus bosses (which few characters are really, speaking of pure melee).  Her powers only have average synergy with weapons, and that is all on TC.

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Reading this thread again and seeing all the arguments all I can say is:
Learn to play.
How come I have no trouble with the shadow against Collecters, Cerberus and reapers?
It's not the class that's at fault.

Don't want to bring the solo argument into it, but if you aren't in a team game it will become pretty apparent how mediocre this character is against higher tier units.

If you have something to teach me that falls outside the realm of learn to play, I would honestly like to know what your recipe is versus the higher tier units that will make the Shadow on par with many of the other classes that I think do that much better.

Modifié par capn233, 16 novembre 2012 - 06:00 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

My favorite broken Shadow moment was SSing a Banshee, then she teleports forward so now there is a good amount of distance between the two of us and I'm still cloaked, and her back is still facing me.  She magnet pulls me, without ever turning around, from 15 ft behind her to right in front of her, and proceeds to insta-kill.  This is post-Retaliation.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 16 novembre 2012 - 06:05 .

[Arctican]

capn233 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

She is built for CQC and melee, yet sucks at CQC and melee. Why because of the slow speed, cloak and SS buginess. 

She is pretty good at melee, but not versus bosses (which few characters are really, speaking of pure melee).  Her powers only have average synergy with weapons, and that is all on TC.

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Reading this thread again and seeing all the arguments all I can say is:
Learn to play.
How come I have no trouble with the shadow against Collecters, Cerberus and reapers?
It's not the class that's at fault.

Don't want to bring the solo argument into it, but if you aren't in a team game it will become pretty apparent how mediocre this character is against higher tier units.

If you have something to teach me that falls outside the realm of learn to play, I would honestly like to know what your recipe is versus the higher tier units that will make the Shadow on par with many of the other classes that I think do that much better.

SS specced with Armor Damage on Sword mastery does insane damage vs boss armor. With the new Omniblade on the Piranha and certain equipments, you're doing thousands of damage per hit. I don't see how that is mediorce.

Geth
-kills pretty much everything in one hit except Primes. Shoot shields and get your teammates to distract him. If not, unload with TC+Piranha

Reapers
-SS brutes when they are charging
-SS ravagers once you break their sacs
-SS banshees when they are teleporting and not targeting you
-one shots everything else

Cerberus
-can one shot every units, even Phantoms if specced right.
-use heavy melee on Atlas from behind. Heavy melee does about the same damage as SS.

Collectors
-use gun or heavy melee on abominations
-SS troopers and captains in one hit
-SS scion, dodge away, unload gun, SS when the scion starts to shoot again, unload gun, repeat until dead
-Use gun on prat's barriers and SS when it's busy on someone else and hasn't begin any of its melee 

Modifié par Arctican, 16 novembre 2012 - 06:28 .

[Ledgend1221]

capn233 wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Reading this thread again and seeing all the arguments all I can say is:
Learn to play.
How come I have no trouble with the shadow against Collecters, Cerberus and reapers?
It's not the class that's at fault.

Don't want to bring the solo argument into it, but if you aren't in a team game it will become pretty apparent how mediocre this character is against higher tier units.

If you have something to teach me that falls outside the realm of learn to play, I would honestly like to know what your recipe is versus the higher tier units that will make the Shadow on par with many of the other classes that I think do that much better.

I won't say anything about solo, because I don't do it. It's boring to me. classes should be judged how they perform in a team game just like weapons should be judged without consumables.

narida.pytalhost.com/me3/classes/#Infiltrator/NShadow/QAKLL/Wraith3BH5BG5////JuggernautShield5/
That's my shadow set up.

I will use my collecters strategys since that seems to be the popular tese.

Troopers=Cloak->Heavy melee or a LM combo kills them easy enough.
Posessed troopers=Cloak->SS->LM combo works. May need a wraith shot.
Captins= Same as troopers.
Posessed captins=Same as Posessed troopers except for two shots from the wraith.
Abominations=Heavy melee. It's pretty much your role.
Posessed abominations= Cloak and LM twice then HM.
Scions=Cloak->SS->HM-> wraith. Kills them dead.
Posessed scions=Annoying so avoid if you can, but I usually just stick to the warith then HM when their health is about half.
Praetorians=Avoid until they are the last enemy on the map. Take down their barriers at range then SS when they are flying. It's puts you in a safe poistion.
Posessed=Same as praetorians really. Your teammates should really be firing upon this anyway.

And I don't get my I need to do as much DPS as a GI to be useful.
I play it for fun and the Shadow's damage output is excellent.

[Ledgend1221]

Air Quotes wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Reading this thread again and seeing all the arguments all I can say is:
Learn to play.
How come I have no trouble with the shadow against Collecters, Cerberus and reapers?
It's not the class that's at fault.

Yeah? You wanna duo a Gold Collectors? 

Buy me a PC copy of ME3 and send me enough cash to get a good manifest, then yeah.

LOL. How much do you score on UUG?

Depends on the map/enemy combination. I usually average around 80-90k with stanard pugs.

80-90k is a joke on UUG. 

If you're scoring more then 80-90k, why are you complaining? 

[Gr1zz Dawg]

Air Quotes...I think you know better than to judge on score...lets be fair here...

Anyway I have seen other threads complaining about the Shadow before, so I think I want to opine on her in this one.

First of all, I can agree that she does need some adjustment. The fact that SS is wonky is really very annoying. I shouldn't have to mash a button 100 times just to get her to do it. Also, the fact that the enemies have supernatural awareness and AOE melee attacks does sabotage the usefulness of the attack. Finally, i think the downward slash can do with a reduction in frames...although the theatrics and wind up sound are entertaining, it really doesn't have to take that long to hit, leaving her painfully open....a quick thrust or side swipe would do fine.

What I would like to ad, however, is that the Shadow is still an extremely powerful character (even if particularly squishy). She serves as an opposite of the Destroyer. Where a new player can pick up the Destroyer and hold his own, the Shadow is definitely not for new players.

There was a thread some time ago (i believe slimjim was the OP) where a build and strategy for her were suggested. And the main takeaway that I think users should remember is to ABUSE HER DODGE! Her cartwheel is almost as fast as the Asari slide, with no loss in shield. She also becomes a difficult target for the enemies to shoot at (trust me...ive done it...they almost cant hit her). An example of a strategy for her is to TC, SS, back cartwheel once, then side cartwheel, [at which point cooldown should be over], coup de grace with either a shot of your gun or an ES. That's just one way of using her.

As for CC...i think it was upinya slayin who started a thread about how OP Electric Slash. Although the most common build for her is 6/4/6/4/6, ES at rank 6 is just unbelievable. From wallhack, to CC, to enormous damage without any mods, to being able to do two in a row with rank 6 in TC (which also gives a huge damage boost)....ES is incredible (and kinda cheap...i feel dirty when I use it too much).

All in all, I really like her and think she's a dynamic and interesting character that requires a different strategy from all others. However, I can understand your gripe.

Question: Is SS the most powerful melee attack in the game? With full melee in Fitness, TC fully spec'd for damage, and SS fully spec'd for damage.

[Arctican]

Gr1zz Dawg wrote...

Air Quotes...I think you know better than to judge on score...lets be fair here...

Anyway I have seen other threads complaining about the Shadow before, so I think I want to opine on her in this one.

First of all, I can agree that she does need some adjustment. The fact that SS is wonky is really very annoying. I shouldn't have to mash a button 100 times just to get her to do it. Also, the fact that the enemies have supernatural awareness and AOE melee attacks does sabotage the usefulness of the attack. Finally, i think the downward slash can do with a reduction in frames...although the theatrics and wind up sound are entertaining, it really doesn't have to take that long to hit, leaving her painfully open....a quick thrust or side swipe would do fine.

What I would like to ad, however, is that the Shadow is still an extremely powerful character (even if particularly squishy). She serves as an opposite of the Destroyer. Where a new player can pick up the Destroyer and hold his own, the Shadow is definitely not for new players.

There was a thread some time ago (i believe slimjim was the OP) where a build and strategy for her were suggested. And the main takeaway that I think users should remember is to ABUSE HER DODGE! Her cartwheel is almost as fast as the Asari slide, with no loss in shield. She also becomes a difficult target for the enemies to shoot at (trust me...ive done it...they almost cant hit her). An example of a strategy for her is to TC, SS, back cartwheel once, then side cartwheel, [at which point cooldown should be over], coup de grace with either a shot of your gun or an ES. That's just one way of using her.

As for CC...i think it was upinya slayin who started a thread about how OP Electric Slash. Although the most common build for her is 6/4/6/4/6, ES at rank 6 is just unbelievable. From wallhack, to CC, to enormous damage without any mods, to being able to do two in a row with rank 6 in TC (which also gives a huge damage boost)....ES is incredible (and kinda cheap...i feel dirty when I use it too much).

All in all, I really like her and think she's a dynamic and interesting character that requires a different strategy from all others. However, I can understand your gripe.

Question: Is SS the most powerful melee attack in the game? With full melee in Fitness, TC fully spec'd for damage, and SS fully spec'd for damage.

SS is probably the most powerful. There's isn;t a batarian infiltrator yet.

[Ledgend1221]

Air Quotes wrote...

ES is for n00b slashtards who can't play.

What does that have to do with ANY of my points?

[CmnDwnWrkn]

People are acting like you REALLY CAN fly around the map and take out every enemy somehow remaining immune to counter attacks.

SSing Banshees, Praetorians, Brutes...seriously?? Be honest - how often are you REALLY getting killed and sync-killed when doing this? There's no need to lie here.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 16 novembre 2012 - 06:22 .

[Arctican]

Air Quotes wrote...

ES is for n00b slashtards who can't play.

That is if all they do is spam ES. I put 3 ranks into ES to be able to detonate my teammate's power among other things. It's simply another arsenal for the shadow to use at the right moment. Plus, it has far more utility than just an extra 10% weapon damage.

[Ledgend1221]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

People are acting like you REALLY CAN fly around the map and take out every enemy somehow remaining immune to counter attacks.

SSing Banshees, Praetorians, Brutes...seriously?? Be honest - how often are you REALLY getting killed and sync-killed when doing this? There's no need to lie here.

It's not that hard when you have the timing down.
It's just knowing when to SS and when to not.

[Arctican]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

People are acting like you REALLY CAN fly around the map and take out every enemy somehow remaining immune to counter attacks.

SSing Banshees, Praetorians, Brutes...seriously?? Be honest - how often are you REALLY getting killed and sync-killed when doing this? There's no need to lie here.

Honestly very little. I'll admit it's not perfect, but it's reliable enough that it doesn't affect my game play or the team. It takes a little getting used to, but once you get the timing down, they are really no problem.

[d_nought]

Air Quotes wrote...

ES is for n00b slashtards who can't play.

That may be, but it still is getting more and more tempting to spec 0 in shadow strike.

[Arctican]

Air Quotes wrote...

Arctican wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

ES is for n00b slashtards who can't play.

That is if all they do is spam ES. I put 3 ranks into ES to be able to detonate my teammate's power among other things. It's simply another arsenal for the shadow to use at the right moment. Plus, it has far more utility than just an extra 10% weapon damage.

I have 3 points in too. But it's too slow to be useful for CC for her main job - melee and SS. 

There are moments when it is better to use the three ranks of ES, such as when you see a Paladin snap freeze a group of enemies. A electric slash to produce multiple cryo explosion is faster than killing mooks one by one.

[Miniditka77]

The Sin wrote...

In its current form, an N7 Shadow is viable on high difficulties if :

She is focused on pure damage +

She uses a weapon that staggers like Falcon or Acolyte or Scorpion to allow easier SS & to prevent elbowing + a rapid fire weapon to burst Ravager's sacks. A stagger weapon loadout works nicely against Geth since they come in groups

OR

She uses a powerful close ranged shotgun (Piranha) with blade attachment & exclusively targets mooks & mini bosses with SS while dance around the boss , I mean kite with a shotgun. For Ravagers, cloak, get close but not close enough and shred them with the shotgun. Works well against Cerberus & to some extent Collectors (you can still SS normal Scions & normal Preatorians)

Sadly neither of these builds solves or gets around the problem that AIs cheat when they cloak

N7 Shadow is one of my favorite classes...

I like using a Talon and an Indra.  The Talon can carry a melee mod and has plenty of punch to finish off most stuff that your SS didn't kill.  And you can stand back and whittle down the boss enemies with the Indra.  And they're both light, so your cooldown on SS is pretty good.  I don't play Platinum though, so I don't know if it would work well on that level.

[Arctican]

Air Quotes wrote...

Arctican wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Arctican wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

ES is for n00b slashtards who can't play.

That is if all they do is spam ES. I put 3 ranks into ES to be able to detonate my teammate's power among other things. It's simply another arsenal for the shadow to use at the right moment. Plus, it has far more utility than just an extra 10% weapon damage.

I have 3 points in too. But it's too slow to be useful for CC for her main job - melee and SS. 

There are moments when it is better to use the three ranks of ES, such as when you see a Paladin snap freeze a group of enemies. A electric slash to produce multiple cryo explosion is faster than killing mooks one by one.

ES has it's uses, but again, leaves you open, the animation is very long and it takes you out of cover if you were in it. 

A Phase Disruptor or some other quick CC power would be 10x better. 

Again, using ES comes down to knowing when you should use it. Obviously not in the open if the enemies are shooting at you. Certainly, it's limited in its uses, which is why ES only gets 3 ranks instead of 6. I'm just saying I'd put the ranks into ES because it is more useful than the 10% extra damage. Doing that makes her a better teamplayer. Other CC powers may be better, but she doesn't need it.

Modifié par Arctican, 16 novembre 2012 - 06:49 .