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Fix and buff the Shadow!


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#26
Drayce333

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Air Quotes wrote...

Drayce333 wrote...

Duration and bonus power cloak, strike for pure damage, fitness in melee and fire sword and a melee mod or get out.


And you get your ass handed by a Phantom who's standing in cover while you SS her, but somehow she melees you faster and stuns you. Then sync-kills you. 

Shadow Strike is a buggy mess and enemies have UNGODLY perceptions and 3x faster melee than the Shadow. 


Enemys only counter you if they see you shadow strike. Try being more sneaky, its a mechanic.

#27
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Drayce333 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Drayce333 wrote...

Duration and bonus power cloak, strike for pure damage, fitness in melee and fire sword and a melee mod or get out.


And you get your ass handed by a Phantom who's standing in cover while you SS her, but somehow she melees you faster and stuns you. Then sync-kills you. 

Shadow Strike is a buggy mess and enemies have UNGODLY perceptions and 3x faster melee than the Shadow. 


Enemys only counter you if they see you shadow strike. Try being more sneaky, its a mechanic.


NO. That Phantom could be in cover on another side of the map, you could cloak in cover, wait for 2 seconds, then target her, travel in SS to her, you're about to strike and she will insta-melee you taking all of your shields and leaving you at health-gate. 

#28
Bayonet Hipshot

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Agree with Air Quotes over this...Shadow needs to be fixed..N7 Shadow is so hard to use because of the extensive cheating enemies employ as soon as they are cloaked.

Does it make any sense that zombified creatures or partially zombified humans have enough brainpower to actually know when the Shadow will cloak & perform a Shadow Strike ?! I get the Shadow taking damage during Electric Slash (unless she is cloaked )SS is a sci-fi version of a Backstab or Twin Fangs (Dragon Age)..So it is a surprise attack not an attack where a Marauder can elbow her when she performs. As for the Ravager acid splash that should not happen all the time during an SS because it is a surprise attack. Enemies are supposed to not know...

As for Shadow's damage reduction, I say just give her the Phantom equivalent of damage reduction when a Phantom cartwheels. Why ? Because the AI has gotten really cheap to the point that every enemy that holds a gun in the game have a built in Marksman / Devastator Mode..& the Geth has stunlock + stagger ..They hit you all the time...So if the Shadow has low health & AI has permanent Marksman or Devastator Mode, give her a strong damage reduction.

Also if enemies like Brutes do have Blade Armor, why is it only apparent on a Shadow or when a Shadow is using SS ? Why when a Krogan or Batarian melee a Brute they don't take damage due to Blade Armor ?

The last thing is increase the attack speed OR power speed of N7 Shadow..Especially SS since it is slow...SS primarily to instant kill mooks & mini bosses..& most of the time guns or Biotic Charge or Havoc Strike do a better job than an SS...By that I mean by the time the Shadow has teleported to a target's back and stabbed, the enemy is usually dead..Make SS have same speed as a Biotic Charge or Havoc Strike...

& Shadows cannot SS some bosses. & even when a Shadow could SS (pre patch) some bosses, the rockets somehow make a 360 degree turn and hit her..Or rockets hit her while she is SS-ing..I don't mind this problem too much, I use the Shadow to kill mini bosses, mooks, revive & do objectives

On the subject of objectives..Why can't infiltrators who have a cloak evolution that allows them to fire one more power while cloaked cannot stay cloaked when they are transporting the drone ? Think about it, infiltrators with such cloak evolution..can use half of their omni tool processing power to cloak..& the other half instead of using a bonus power and maintaining cloak, power the drone up & maintain cloak...

#29
The Wayward Vagabond

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Air Quotes wrote...

The Wayward Vagabond wrote...

I agree. Swordsmen need better melee in general, and that getting ****slammed when sneaking is aggravating.


+1

Shadow Strike should be a suprise for the enemy. What kinda of suprise it is if you get meleed back faster than you land the SS? So stupid. 

That's why I don't play her at all, SS can screw you over and ES is boring.

#30
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The Sin's post

THAT! +9001

Modifié par Air Quotes, 14 novembre 2012 - 08:13 .


#31
Bayonet Hipshot

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The Wayward Vagabond wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

The Wayward Vagabond wrote...

I agree. Swordsmen need better melee in general, and that getting ****slammed when sneaking is aggravating.


+1

Shadow Strike should be a suprise for the enemy. What kinda of suprise it is if you get meleed back faster than you land the SS? So stupid. 

That's why I don't play her at all, SS can screw you over and ES is boring.


People want to play the Shadow because its fun..But sadly she is not working as intended due to cheap game mechanics...

#32
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The Wayward Vagabond wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

The Wayward Vagabond wrote...

I agree. Swordsmen need better melee in general, and that getting ****slammed when sneaking is aggravating.


+1

Shadow Strike should be a suprise for the enemy. What kinda of suprise it is if you get meleed back faster than you land the SS? So stupid. 

That's why I don't play her at all, SS can screw you over and ES is boring.


But I WANT to play her and I WANT to like her. She was my most requested and most anticipated character out of All Earth DLC. 

#33
icyplanetnhc

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If I may make a suggestion, I would like to see that Shadow Strike decapitates the target if it's a kill. This is specifically addressing the issue of Shadow Striking an Abomination.

#34
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Shadow Strike should work like Biotic Charge with the difference of ALWAYS teleporting right behind the enemy since it's an assassination kind of attack. You should be able to cancel into heavy melee after the action. The damage reduction should not excede 40% though; that would be a bit too much.

One thing I find seriously aggravating:
-I cloak behind cover for ninja effect.
-I go for a Shadow Strike on a Marauder.
-I am greeted with an elbow to the face while my SS doesn't connect

Even when staggered, BC STILL connects and does damage and restores barriers. Why does SS not do the same with the exception of the shield regen if one hasn't specced into that. There should be invincibility during the actual attack itself with the 40% damage reduction once you de-cloak.

SS's animation is very slow and should be at the same speed of BC with the Shadow appearing behind her enemy.

#35
Exosnake

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Air Quotes wrote...

1. Shadow decloaks MUCH faster than ANY other Infiltrator after a shot. 
2. Shadow Strike sometimes stops and Shadow strikes the front of the enemy instead of going behind. That gets her killed. 
3. Not being able to Shadow Strike an enemy that is right there next to you in plain sight
4. Not being able to Shadow Strike Atlases or Possesed Scions (you know about that)

Fix these!

Now to buffs. 

50% damage reduction during Shadow Strike and Heavy Melee. 

Faster Shadow Strike, faster melee

Ability to heavy melee right after Shadow Strike. Means it already locks on the enemy for heavy melee. Combo strike in other words. 

Light melee should have a radius of 2-3 meters and hit enemies even behind you. Like Dragoons do. 


Dunno but the shadow strike is IMO still one of the absolute best characters in the game that works  just about against every single faction despite the reapers. when it comes to the bugs

1. Haven't really paid attention but possible.
2. true not sure what's the deal with that. Especially against guardians a pain.
3. realised that and I agree
4. same as 3rd :-)

now when it comes to the buffs I certainly do not agree.
Yes, the SS is pretty slowish as well as the heavy melee but otherwise the whole little kit would be insanely overpowered. I mean you can SS phantoms with one use of the power, regen your shield with it and teleport in or out of enemy groups whenever you like it.
Making it even faster or the character have some sort of DR would make you close to invincible.

Also the radius light melee would make the character suddenly into a crowd control class and that as a melee build? don't like that one bit. Yoou either spec her into a crowd control **** with electric slash or a "one vs one" killing machine but having both of both worlds would be just too much.

Now the last and for me personally most important point.
The "I get hit killed while I use my SS" point. A point that got on my nerves and still does but I changed my attitude towards it.

Now I don't know how it's in your case or if it has anything to do with the system you're playing on but whenever it happens to me that a Phantom, Guardian, Rockettrooper, Prime etc. etc. turns around and slaps me in the face before I can unleash my cloaked SS they ALWAYS spotted me first.

so the AI definately is focused on my character during the attack and they more than often turn around and do their little melee attack.

Now looking from a "it's not realistic that they have "inhuman" reflexes/psychic abbilities" point of view in video games always seems to me a bit...meh. However in this case is it really that surprising that an enemy that had you in sight, doesn't see you any longer, suddenly hears that weird sound before SS  turns around and reacts to it? Be it asit may be like I said looking into realistic/logical AI behavior just isn't my cup of tea.

Other than that the "psychic abbility" really never happened to me when the enemy was focused on any of my teammates.

IMO the shadow and the SS shadow melee build is really perfectly balanced as it is.
You can kill the most enemies in the shortest time, you can move literally across the map in no time, you have great survivability due to cloak and shield regen SS and you have pretty much the strongest one shot power in the game.
As long as you watch your steps, attack enemies that do not concentrate their fire on you and stay out of too big groups there is IMO no better melee character.

All of it is also formulated towards gold difficulty.
Hope I don't come over too "offensive" or even disrespectful. Not my intention just giving my 2 cents ;-)

#36
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Jiovanie- wrote...

Shadow Strike should work like Biotic Charge with the difference of ALWAYS teleporting right behind the enemy since it's an assassination kind of attack. You should be able to cancel into heavy melee after the action. The damage reduction should not excede 40% though; that would be a bit too much.

One thing I find seriously aggravating:
-I cloak behind cover for ninja effect.
-I go for a Shadow Strike on a Marauder.
-I am greeted with an elbow to the face while my SS doesn't connect

Even when staggered, BC STILL connects and does damage and restores barriers. Why does SS not do the same with the exception of the shield regen if one hasn't specced into that. There should be invincibility during the actual attack itself with the 40% damage reduction once you de-cloak.

SS's animation is very slow and should be at the same speed of BC with the Shadow appearing behind her enemy.


Exactly. 40% DR is fine with me. But she NEEDS some DR. 

Modifié par Air Quotes, 14 novembre 2012 - 08:26 .


#37
Vlark

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Actually this would make her extremly op. It is kinda annoying that i can't attack an enemy but most of the time it is working just fine. I like her the way she is right now.

#38
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Air Quotes wrote...

Jiovanie- wrote...

Shadow Strike should work like Biotic Charge with the difference of ALWAYS teleporting right behind the enemy since it's an assassination kind of attack. You should be able to cancel into heavy melee after the action. The damage reduction should not excede 40% though; that would be a bit too much.

One thing I find seriously aggravating:
-I cloak behind cover for ninja effect.
-I go for a Shadow Strike on a Marauder.
-I am greeted with an elbow to the face while my SS doesn't connect

Even when staggered, BC STILL connects and does damage and restores barriers. Why does SS not do the same with the exception of the shield regen if one hasn't specced into that. There should be invincibility during the actual attack itself with the 40% damage reduction once you de-cloak.

SS's animation is very slow and should be at the same speed of BC with the Shadow appearing behind her enemy.


Exactly. 40% DR is fine with me. But she NEEDS some DR. 

She does, you just give up power for defense. I dunno if you can look into my manifest, but if you can you should look into my Shadow's build. My SS isn't the best killing tool, but it promotes survivability that makes me the better surviving Shadow on my team in almost all circumstances of there being another Shadow, while that other Shadow is far more efficient at killing things. xD

Mine really is a ninja who is more hit and run and hide while the other is usually a "Kill all things".

#39
Rbsann

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Shadow is the easiest character to solo with in platinum. She kills dragoons, rocket troopers, bombers, centurion, marauders, ravagers in one hit.

Phantoms, brutes, pyros are practically dead when you shadow strike them. Banshees are dead with two shadow strikes after their barrier is down.

The hardest foes are primes and atlas but they are killable with the right weapon.

#40
Buckapocka

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Air Quotes wrote...

m4dh4xx0r wrote...

Only issue I've got with the shadow is the atlas shadow strike bug. Other than that, I personally don't see a need for a buff, but that's just me.


You don't feel that it's strange to get meleed or shot in Shadow Strike? You don't feel that it's strange how psychic the enemies are? 

I mean if I was a Centurion who's shooting some guy in front and some chick with a sword uncloaks behind me to slash me, I would need time to react or to even hear her trough all that gunfire. 

Instead he turns around in a milisecond and melees you. Or that Ravager craps itself IN ADVANCE, while you travel. 


Or this Centurion throws a grenade at you before hitting SS, than THAT grenade lands at the Centurions feet killing you after finishing the animation. That's just plain lovely :wub:

Modifié par Buckapocka, 14 novembre 2012 - 08:33 .


#41
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Jiovanie- wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Jiovanie- wrote...

Shadow Strike should work like Biotic Charge with the difference of ALWAYS teleporting right behind the enemy since it's an assassination kind of attack. You should be able to cancel into heavy melee after the action. The damage reduction should not excede 40% though; that would be a bit too much.

One thing I find seriously aggravating:
-I cloak behind cover for ninja effect.
-I go for a Shadow Strike on a Marauder.
-I am greeted with an elbow to the face while my SS doesn't connect

Even when staggered, BC STILL connects and does damage and restores barriers. Why does SS not do the same with the exception of the shield regen if one hasn't specced into that. There should be invincibility during the actual attack itself with the 40% damage reduction once you de-cloak.

SS's animation is very slow and should be at the same speed of BC with the Shadow appearing behind her enemy.


Exactly. 40% DR is fine with me. But she NEEDS some DR. 

She does, you just give up power for defense. I dunno if you can look into my manifest, but if you can you should look into my Shadow's build. My SS isn't the best killing tool, but it promotes survivability that makes me the better surviving Shadow on my team in almost all circumstances of there being another Shadow, while that other Shadow is far more efficient at killing things. xD

Mine really is a ninja who is more hit and run and hide while the other is usually a "Kill all things".



I know you can spec her for DR and shield drain. But then you lose so much damage. So I just use Shield Drain. But getting meleed out of SS is stupid plain and simple. And she is as slow as molasses. SS is slower than Havoc Strike. and affects only 1 target. ES has a stupid long animation. And Cloak is also just a glorified damage buff, especially against Geth or the new Dragoons who don't give a crap whether you in it or not.  

I can kill faster with a Volus. 

#42
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Rbsann wrote...

Shadow is the easiest character to solo with in platinum. She kills dragoons, rocket troopers, bombers, centurion, marauders, ravagers in one hit.

Phantoms, brutes, pyros are practically dead when you shadow strike them. Banshees are dead with two shadow strikes after their barrier is down.

The hardest foes are primes and atlas but they are killable with the right weapon.


LOL no. She takes FOREVER to solo with. TGI, GI and plenty others will do it 20 minutes faster if not more. 

#43
Rbsann

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Air Quotes wrote...

Rbsann wrote...

Shadow is the easiest character to solo with in platinum. She kills dragoons, rocket troopers, bombers, centurion, marauders, ravagers in one hit.

Phantoms, brutes, pyros are practically dead when you shadow strike them. Banshees are dead with two shadow strikes after their barrier is down.

The hardest foes are primes and atlas but they are killable with the right weapon.


LOL no. She takes FOREVER to solo with. TGI, GI and plenty others will do it 20 minutes faster if not more. 


I said easiest not fastest.

On firebase giant you can just spread out the enemies and kill one by one.

#44
CmnDwnWrkn

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I'm getting really sick of the instant reaction time of all enemies. You cloak and slash them from behind and there isn't even a millisecond of "What the?!" confusion..just a Marauder elbow to the skull.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 14 novembre 2012 - 08:43 .


#45
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Rbsann wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Rbsann wrote...

Shadow is the easiest character to solo with in platinum. She kills dragoons, rocket troopers, bombers, centurion, marauders, ravagers in one hit.

Phantoms, brutes, pyros are practically dead when you shadow strike them. Banshees are dead with two shadow strikes after their barrier is down.

The hardest foes are primes and atlas but they are killable with the right weapon.


LOL no. She takes FOREVER to solo with. TGI, GI and plenty others will do it 20 minutes faster if not more. 


I said easiest not fastest.

On firebase giant you can just spread out the enemies and kill one by one.


She's really not the easiest or the fastest if she get's killed in her SUPRISE ATTACK getting SUPRISE ATTACKED back FASTER than her SUPRISE ATTACK finishes. Or getting shot by rockets who do miracle turns and go around the map to blow you in the face. 

Face it, the mechanics are garbage and buggy as ****. 

#46
Bayonet Hipshot

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Speccing Shadow with Shield Drain does make sense in theory but does not make any sense in the game. Again this requires some minor thinking.

Most of the squadmates we play with have something that can take down shield very quickly : Acolyte, rapid fire weapons, disruptor ammo, energy drain, overload, lash.

So most of the time you will SS a character with no shields at all...If I remember my Shadow games, the only enemies that actually had barriers or shields when I SS are Banshees & Geth Primes (this is on Gold) So Shield Drain makes no sense unless you primarily use Shadow for solos..But then again the insane AI cheating when you cloak multiplies when you are solo

#47
ryoldschool

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I have actually changed my build since the collectors came out ( did not used to have any points in ES ) and am using the Omniblade to boost the melee damage ( and SS ).

I did this because it was too easy to get killed just using SS all the time. So its kind of an admission that she is not as good as before because I am afraid to SS a lot of enemies now because I will end up dead. She is still deadly against Cerberus, but reapers and collectors require me to play more cautiously. The Geth, well f$#*& the Geth.

#48
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CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I'm getting really sick of the instant reaction time of all enemies. You cloak and slash them from behind and there isn't even a millisecond of "What the?!" confusion..just a Marauder elbow to the skull.


INORITE?! It's like they know it all along. Oh wait, it's BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT ALL ALONG! 

#49
Apl_Juice

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Shadow, who can kill every nonboss/brute/scion in one hit, while taking duration and bonus power on tc needs a buff?

#50
Bayonet Hipshot

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In its current form, an N7 Shadow is viable on high difficulties if :

She is focused on pure damage +

She uses a weapon that staggers like Falcon or Acolyte or Scorpion to allow easier SS & to prevent elbowing + a rapid fire weapon to burst Ravager's sacks. A stagger weapon loadout works nicely against Geth since they come in groups

OR

She uses a powerful close ranged shotgun (Piranha) with blade attachment & exclusively targets mooks & mini bosses with SS while dance around the boss , I mean kite with a shotgun. For Ravagers, cloak, get close but not close enough and shred them with the shotgun. Works well against Cerberus & to some extent Collectors (you can still SS normal Scions & normal Preatorians)

Sadly neither of these builds solves or gets around the problem that AIs cheat when they cloak

N7 Shadow is one of my favorite classes...:D